Robertson Links Sharon Stroke, God's Wrath

ChrisB803

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mhatten said:
Why we are in America not the Middle East. Why should the comments of the Iranian president about another Middle Eastern leader override what a promient us citizen has to say? :scratch:

Because we're talking about the comments of one man in charge of an entire nation (a nation apparently fairly close to obtaining nuclear weapons), Vs. a man who is just a mouthpiece on television. If we're going to take the words of a political pundit (which is all Robertson really is, in my opinion) with more importance than the violent words of a man who actually may soon have the ability to follow up on his threats, then it might be time to check our priorities.
 
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ChrisB803

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PopoSujo said:
ChrisB803: I am not an anti-Christian, and merely because I don't follow your faith is no reason for you to say that. This is that "My Way or No Way" philosophy that Pat Robertson embodies. I am not surprised in any way that you defend him.

I never said I was defending Pat Robertson. In fact I clearly stated several times that I was NOT defending him. I don't disagree with the premise of his statement, but his wisdom in stating it in the manner he did and at the time he did shows a severe lack of wisdom.

Oh, and I didn't say "That anti-Christian PopoSujo", so don't assume I'm automatically lumping everyone who's not a Christian together when I say "anti-Christian". Like my mom used to say all the time: "If it doesn't apply to you, ignore it"
 
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ChrisB803

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SimplyMe said:
The problem is that we expect the Iranian president to say things like this, it's not news to have Arab leaders calling for the death of Israel or one of it's leaders.

On the other hand, since the majority of people in this country claim to be Christian, it is news when a Christian "leader" makes a comment like that. As a general rule, anything that happens outside the US, or is not directly related to the US, will not sell newspapers, with the exception of terrorist attacks or natural disasters where thousands die.

But I say it again: Pat Robertson is a talking head, with no more power than the sound waves that come out of his mouth. Ample evidence of that should be the swift reaction of the Christians here, and across America who immediately came out against Robertson's words.

Ahdeminejad, on the other hand, is the leader of a fairly powerful nation, and has shown every indication he may intend to back up his violent words. To me that's a much bigger threat, and therefore should be a much bigger story, than the words of a talking head.

Or maybe the simple fact is that there are those on this site who hate the Jews, but hate Christians just a little more, so they'll only defend Israel when it's a Christian saying something against them.
 
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ChrisB803 said:
By the way, here's an update for anyone keeping track of the Christian Forum's hypocrites:

Posts in this thread: 50
Posts in the two threads about Iranian President: 47

The kicker? About 75% of the posts in the threads about Ahmedinejad's comments are actually about Pat Robertson's comments, making the count something like 84-13.

Are we really that desperate for a local skapegoat? Or are the anti-Christians in this thread so much more willing to jump on the inept words of a so-called Christian leader? And how about the Christians here? Are you so afraid of offending someone that you won't go to the Word of God to defend the assertion that God has indeed chosen Israel and the former land of Canaan as his chosen land, and that He indeed will defend it against any who would take it away again?

So let's try for a little parity in our commentary, rather than just jumping into the fray in battles that appeal to our particular prejudices.

I expect the president of Iran to be against Sharon and Israel. I have a much higher expectation of someone like Pat Robertson.

Am I afraid to offend someone. Not anymore: Pat Robertson is an idiot.
 
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ChrisB803 said:
But I say it again: Pat Robertson is a talking head, with no more power than the sound waves that come out of his mouth. Ample evidence of that should be the swift reaction of the Christians here, and across America who immediately came out against Robertson's words.

Ahdeminejad, on the other hand, is the leader of a fairly powerful nation, and has shown every indication he may intend to back up his violent words. To me that's a much bigger threat, and therefore should be a much bigger story, than the words of a talking head.

But it's not unusual. A self-proclaimed leader in the Christian community saying this sort of thing is. Christians don't need to distance ourselves from Ahdeminejad. Nobody thinks he represents us. Some people (I don't know how many, but possibly some) may think that Robertson does. Thus, we take great pains to distance ourselves from him.

ChrisB803 said:
Or maybe the simple fact is that there are those on this site who hate the Jews, but hate Christians just a little more, so they'll only defend Israel when it's a Christian saying something against them.

Hey, now. Let's not speculate on peoples' motives, here. If it's not so, you've said some pretty awful, and totally unjustified things.
 
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ChrisB803 said:
But I say it again: Pat Robertson is a talking head, with no more power than the sound waves that come out of his mouth. Ample evidence of that should be the swift reaction of the Christians here, and across America who immediately came out against Robertson's words.

Ahdeminejad, on the other hand, is the leader of a fairly powerful nation, and has shown every indication he may intend to back up his violent words. To me that's a much bigger threat, and therefore should be a much bigger story, than the words of a talking head.

Or maybe the simple fact is that there are those on this site who hate the Jews, but hate Christians just a little more, so they'll only defend Israel when it's a Christian saying something against them.

I was talking in generalities, not necessarily about this board. In general, most Americans could care less about what happens outside of the borders of this country. In the past year, beyond the hurricanes here, hurricanes have caused worse damage in Central America and Mexico in terms of loss of life. Monetary value was not as high in those areas, but I believe more homes were destroyed there. Yet, we don't commonly hear calls to aid Central America from their devastation, either this year or any other year.

Even the massive earthquakes in Asia in October was barely a blip on the U.S. radar screen. While some money was sent, most people here felt like they couldn't contribute after having given relief for Hurricane Katrina. The earthquake quickly disappeared from the news, since Americans weren't interested, and returned to stories of Katrina and New Orleans (which are still popping up on the news).

As for this forum, I think it comes down more to the idea of what is expected. We, as Christians, expect Arabs to make statements calling for the death of someone. We've been hearing out of Iran since at least Salman Rushdie, while we don't like it we expect them to do it -- especially now that they have elected a suspected terrorist as President. Additionally, there is little we can do, not to mention that if he saw our comments he make take pleasure in having upset us.

While perhaps we should possibly expect the same from Pat Robertson, the fact is that he is a Christian Leader, an ordained minister, who millions listen to in this country. In this case we feel a need, particularly on Christian Forums, to ensure that people realize that Pat is not speaking for Christians and, while perhaps unrealistic, that Pat himself will realize that he is not helping Christianity.
 
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ChrisB803

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Willtor said:
But it's not unusual. A self-proclaimed leader in the Christian community saying this sort of thing is. Christians don't need to distance ourselves from Ahdeminejad. Nobody thinks he represents us. Some people (I don't know how many, but possibly some) may think that Robertson does. Thus, we take great pains to distance ourselves from him.

Apparently it isn't so unusual, to hear others in here speak of Pat Robertson.

Here's all I'm saying: Are we, as Christians, going to go around so paranoid about what other people think of us that when a fellow "christian" says something others find offensive we have to distance ourselves by calling that person names and saying they are an "idiot" or "crazy"? How is that being any more of an example that what Pat Robertson has done?

Hey, now. Let's not speculate on peoples' motives, here. If it's not so, you've said some pretty awful, and totally unjustified things.

I call a spade a spade, and I don't think I've said anything more awful than what some people in here have said about Pat Robertson. Again, I don't necessarily defend what he said, but I'll defend his right to say it. I don't think he was proclaiming violence or hate, like Ahmedinejad, just giving his opinion (however ill-conceived) of how God might view Sharon's giving away parts of Israel.

It just seems to me that there are an awful lot of people in here who will take any chance to jump on a Christian who fails or does something stupid, then there are people who will express outrage over something like what the Iranian president said, however "expected" it might be.

I just think our priorities are skewed, that's all.
 
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ChrisB803

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SimplyMe said:
I was talking in generalities, not necessarily about this board. In general, most Americans could care less about what happens outside of the borders of this country. In the past year, beyond the hurricanes here, hurricanes have caused worse damage in Central America and Mexico in terms of loss of life. Monetary value was not as high in those areas, but I believe more homes were destroyed there. Yet, we don't commonly hear calls to aid Central America from their devastation, either this year or any other year.

Even the massive earthquakes in Asia in October was barely a blip on the U.S. radar screen. While some money was sent, most people here felt like they couldn't contribute after having given relief for Hurricane Katrina. The earthquake quickly disappeared from the news, since Americans weren't interested, and returned to stories of Katrina and New Orleans (which are still popping up on the news).

As for this forum, I think it comes down more to the idea of what is expected. We, as Christians, expect Arabs to make statements calling for the death of someone. We've been hearing out of Iran since at least Salman Rushdie, while we don't like it we expect them to do it -- especially now that they have elected a suspected terrorist as President. Additionally, there is little we can do, not to mention that if he saw our comments he make take pleasure in having upset us.

While perhaps we should possibly expect the same from Pat Robertson, the fact is that he is a Christian Leader, an ordained minister, who millions listen to in this country. In this case we feel a need, particularly on Christian Forums, to ensure that people realize that Pat is not speaking for Christians and, while perhaps unrealistic, that Pat himself will realize that he is not helping Christianity.

At the risk of going WAY off topic: Why is it that so many people get upset when America isn't first on scene to any natural disasters that happen outside of our country (especially when we're battling a pretty big one of our own), but those same people are upset when we involve ourselves in the liberation of a repressed country?

Darned if you do, darned if you don't?
 
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ChrisB803 said:
It just seems to me that there are an awful lot of people in here who will take any chance to jump on a Christian who fails or does something stupid, then there are people who will express outrage over something like what the Iranian president said, however "expected" it might be.

Welcome to Christian Forums, where this is often done for entertainment purposes.

I'm a sinner, Pat's a sinner...unfortunately he has a microphone and a nationally viewed station.

Jesus loves us both just the same....remember this, Christians... no matter how hard it is when another gives Christians a bad name.
 
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ChrisB803

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Ginny said:
Welcome to Christian Forums, where this is often done for entertainment purposes.

I'm a sinner, Pat's a sinner...unfortunately he has a microphone and a nationally viewed station.

Jesus loves us both just the same....remember this, Christians... no matter how hard it is when another gives Christians a bad name.

Agreed. I think, unfortunately, a lot of Christians almost revel in the failures of their fellow Christians because it makes them feel better about themselves. Remember Jesus said to love one another, and Paul added that we are to seek to lift each other up, not put each other down.

I know it's hard to do. I fail a lot myself, but it's something God has really been convicting me about lately.
 
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ChrisB803 said:
But I say it again: Pat Robertson is a talking head, with no more power than the sound waves that come out of his mouth. Ample evidence of that should be the swift reaction of the Christians here, and across America who immediately came out against Robertson's words.

Very true and if enough of us speak out against his crazy rantings and withdraw our support like Christians love to do for the cause du jour maybe he will fade into the backround. We cannot go to Target because they have the audacity to say Happy Holidays but God forbid we call a fellow believer on the carpet for his outrageous statements.

Ahdeminejad, on the other hand, is the leader of a fairly powerful nation, and has shown every indication he may intend to back up his violent words. To me that's a much bigger threat, and therefore should be a much bigger story, than the words of a talking head.

I don't know that it should be a bigger story here in the US, but at any rate what would our outrage do? That is not to say we should not denounce his statements we should.
 
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WhenFinallySetFree777

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Ariel Sharon: Old, fat, and stressed.

The man was going to have a stroke. I guess Robertson never noticed those factors, or decided to ignore them in favor of saying something that makes him feel like he's got a direct hotline to God the rest of us are missing out on.

Agreed. I think, unfortunately, a lot of Christians almost revel in the failures of their fellow Christians because it makes them feel better about themselves. Remember Jesus said to love one another, and Paul added that we are to seek to lift each other up, not put each other down.

I don't disagree. However, if we didn't call Robertson out on his comments, it could appear that we passively condone his words. I won't call him names, or do any mudslinging or some such, but I can't just sit and be like "Oh, he's a Christian; I can't say anything truthful about him that may portray him in a negative light." It just isn't...right.
 
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ChrisB803

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mhatten said:
Very true and if enough of us speak out against his crazy rantings and withdraw our support like Christians love to do for the cause du jour maybe he will fade into the backround. We cannot go to Target because they have the audacity to say Happy Holidays but God forbid we call a fellow believer on the carpet for his outrageous statements.

I don't have a problem with withdrawing support (I never watch the 700 Club anyway), and no problem with saying his comments are lacking in wisdom. I just don't want Christians calling someone an idiot, crazy, off their medication, etc. All it does is enforce to the unbelievers their belief that we're just a bunch of repressed sinners, instead of overcoming conquerors through Christ. His love should be our ultimate goal. Rather than coming out in public and bashing Pat Robertson, maybe we should sit down and write a well thought-out letter to him expressing our feelings. It's not like he ever reads a forum like this anyway.
 
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I thought I'd heard that Pat (or someone) kind of gave the impression that a divided Israel would prevent, or slow, Christ's return. If that's true, what part of OMNIPOTENT and ALL POWERFUL are they missing?

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see all of Biblical Israel in the hands of the Jews, but I just don't see it happening for a while...
 
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