Roberts Liardon

[Christina M]

James 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Where in this scripture does it say "where is your faith?"

no, it instructs us OUR JOB when a needy brother comes to the door. in fact in vs 17 it is OUR faith that is dead if we don't give what is needful. Not the needy brothers.

For cryin' out loud..... what has this thread turned into????? Someone posted they were upset about the reaction from KCM and some of us explained why it might have happened and why it shouldn't be taken offensively....... and that is a sin????

I am probably the most compassionate person on earth...... we deal with the poor and homeless on a one-to-one basis all the time. We feed them.... we clothe them.... we love on them.... we pray with them........ we cry with them.........

AND .................

we ask them why they are in the position they are in and we tell them things they must do to get out of the position they are in ...... WE TELL THEM THE TRUTH!

We see lives changed day in and day out...... unfortunately, we also see those who only have excuses and rationalizations for why they can't do what they need to do. It doesn't stop us from our mission.

 

[victoryword]

I was going to stay out of this discussion from this point, but I just want to chime in with this:

Let both sides try to put aside the emotions and the personal feelings on this and hear what each other is trying to convey. Both sides have valid biblical points but we are now letting some of our emotions bring a cloud over the issue.

It is biblical to show compassion when someone is going through a trial.

It is biblical to ensure that the person going through a trial is not in it due to something they did or something that they are lacking.

Can we not settle on this?

I know everyone wants to be heard, especially if we have encountered certain experiences (both positive and negative), but why not just say, "In spite of my experience, this is the truth?"

 

[RevJdK]

I`ll say 2 things, giving my .02....

I think that by having the view of "if something bad happpens its got to be lack of faith, rebellion,etc" is not realizing the soveriegnty of God......Jesus told us that we were going to go through some things..faith that hasnt been tested is a faith that cannot be trusted. I mean, how do we know God is healer, without first being sick...how do we know he will supply without first being in need......The crisis that we face sometimes is simply to solidify that that we say we believe, thus bringing us to a different level of maturity.

Secondly, satan never attacks us simply because we are believers, or because of the stuff we have, etc......No....because everyone on here can probably make a list of believers they know that NEVER seem to go through anything....No...he comes after us because of what we are to become......He knows those who arent going to grow and mature in the faith....ANd he knows those who are going to go after God at all costs.
So my philosphy has always been that a lack of problems isnt a sign of spiritual maturity...quite the contrary....a lack of problems is a sign of immaturity....BUT you show me someone who the devil is coming at 9 ways at a time, I`ll show you someone who has him shaking in his boots....Cause this is someone that satan knows is going to break chains and move mountains!!!

I am a WOF and went through some rough times punishing myself wondering what I had done to cause all the things that were happening...when God give me the above revelation, I knew what the Apostle Paul meant when he said "Rejoice when you face trials of many kinds"....GLORY TO GOD!!!!! I Now face trouble with a determination and faith that I could never have IF I had not walked through some of what I had walked through....I`ll say this too...You cant effectively minister anything you havent gone through yourself...so be ready....God will be placing WOFers in your life who are struggling with why all hell breaks loose...and you will be able to share...just like I just did...

God bless you all.
In HIm,
RevJ

 

[God_Owned]

And some of you aren't hearing our hearts.....

I'm sorry, did you have an issue of the heart for which you were seeking to be understood? I was so focused on some peoples lack of understanding where iflc was coming from, I completely overlooked the fact that maybe you might need uplifted as well.

So, irellevant to iflc's issue, what would you like us to understand about what's bothering you?

 

[God_Owned]

For cryin' out loud..... what has this thread turned into????? Someone posted they were upset about the reaction from KCM and some of us explained why it might have happened and why it shouldn't be taken offensively....... and that is a sin????

...cold it be your bedside manner doctor?

I am probably the most compassionate person on earth......

...and I thought Jesus held the Compassion Title.

we deal with the poor and homeless on a one-to-one basis all the time. We feed them.... we clothe them.... we love on them.... we pray with them........ we cry with them.........

AND .................

we ask them why they are in the position they are in and we tell them things they must do to get out of the position they are in ...... WE TELL THEM THE TRUTH! We see lives changed day in and day out......

Good for you, now what has this to do with how iflc has been treated.

unfortunately, we also see those who only have excuses and rationalizations for why they can't do what they need to do.

...cold it be that you just don't know how to reach them? I do sympathize though because, in spite of my best efforts, I've not been able to reach you with the truth. My apologies to you.

Have a nice day.

 

[Christina M]

, in spite of my best efforts, I've not been able to reach you with the truth. My apologies to you.

Have a nice day.

Could it be your prejudices, sarcasm and need to gloat overide your ability to speak the truth?? Perhaps.

 

[pdudgeon]

we're arguing a three legged stool here--faith, works, and compassion. Each one of these is necessary for the balanced Christian life, and each one was shown in the life of Jesus. What everyone has succeeded in doing is showing how out of balance a life can get if one of the three is missing.

So can we turn this debate off of ourselves and our experiences, and back onto how we walk out these three points in our lives?

 

[God_Owned]

Could it be your prejudices, sarcasm and need to gloat overide your ability to speak the truth?? Perhaps.

No it couldn't be. So, I guess this is your way of saying you don't require assistance?

If you ever find youself in need, I'll be here for you.

Have a nice day.

 

[FireOfGod]

Yeah I know of him quite a bit.

All I know is that he was a great Pastor, good revelations, good books, etc. Now he is a homosexual... Which I have mixed feelings about. Not sure how that works in the way he's saying.

 

[God_Owned]

Yeah I know of him quite a bit.

All I know is that he was a great Pastor, good revelations, good books, etc. Now he is a homosexual... Which I have mixed feelings about. Not sure how that works in the way he's saying.

Has Roberts done something since 2001-02 time frame?

 

[iafic]

For cryin' out loud..... what has this thread turned into????? Someone posted they were upset about the reaction from KCM and some of us explained why it might have happened and why it shouldn't be taken offensively....... and that is a sin????

.

I am actually not offended by you or the KC ministry. Please don't call me offended...I really don't like it. It was suggested to me to remind you of our PMs lately. Don't forget we are a blessing to each other remember? i love you even if we don't agree on something.

now let's let this go. OK?

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Here's his website http://www.robertsliardon.org/

 

[TheMatmanReturns]

ugh, i can't help myself, i want to comment on two things here...



Jesus put the outcome on him. he didn't ask the man what kind of sin he was involved in to have this happen to his child. Big difference. Jesus didn't blame the father for the sons condition.



if it's all on me, then why does Jesus instruct us to gather and uplift and fellowship with each other?

and I disagree 100% that everything in my life is a direct result of my words. That would mean that it's Jesus fault that people mocked Him. Paul spoke wrong words when he was stranded in the water for days. it's Peters wrong choice of words that got him beaten...

sorry, I am not with you on this! that's my smiley cuz i am not mad! Just don't agree.

I think that fellow Christians are for edification and encouragement for those living a life for God. Jesus didn't come to condemn the world, why do Christians think they should???

(Look what you got me into mattman!!!! )

Hey, I've been gone so long that I didn't know what I had started.

 

[TheGloryisHere]

WoF preacher, brought up under the ministry of Billy Joe Daugherty. Read some of his books and I quite like them.

Coming to London in a few weeks. Been invited to go hear him.

Been told that he had a homosexual affair, and is now openly homosexual and preaches in homosexual churches.

The church he is going to is a traditional church.

Rather confused really.

Any of my American friends know (of) the man? What is he like NOW?

Cheers,
|ZZ|

Oh my.... He was living in sin, but he has repented and gave that up. I don't know about Billy, but he was raised up around Kenneth E. Hagin and he used to sound and preach just like him. His grandmother raised him, and she was a poweful intercessor. It breaks my heart how the devil trashed his life and ministry. He will prolly never have back what he had. It's dangerous for a preacher who was so so close to God to mess up like that, but he is still precious to me, and I can't put my mouth against him. God still loves him. He wrote a bunch of books that I still have.

He went to heaven when he was eight and then wrote a book about it when he got older. It's really good.

Ppl on the internet are cruel in trashing his name and spreading his sins around like they dont' have anything better to do. That's prolly where you heard he was still gay and preaching in gay churchs. That is so not true.

 

[TheGloryisHere]

I can only say what I know first hand.

I hear a tape of his many years ago, saw him on TV several times and liked him.

Years later I saw him in person and he had bad problems with his attitude. I prayed for him. Later I wondered if I should go see him. I thought surely he had repented and grown up. It was so bad I felt like leaving. I was very disappointed in him.

Then I heard all this stuff but you can't always believe alot of what the media says.

He opened the door by getting into pride and talking bad about other preachers. I worried about him doing that on TBN, that he was letting open a door for the devil. I beleive thats how the enemy got in, was through pride. I hate that that happened to him. He was raised up in the most godly home. Very few kids had anything close to what he had in his grandmother.

 

[TheGloryisHere]

One of the many ploys of the devil. any chinks in your character, and possible weaknesses you might have, he will try his best to fully exploit. especially if you have a ministry of any power.

yes, exactly. We preachers have to work hard to keep our minds and bodies pure as possible, so the devil has no way in. When a preacher gets trashed, its really hard to go back to the pulpit.

 

[TheGloryisHere]

So now you understand why God has to develop our character BEFORE He gives us power.

(Please reference my entire thread on Discipline.)

yes, character is extremly important. I had to work hard in that area, with the devil fighting me all the way to try to get me to fail the course on character in the Holy Ghost School.

 

[TheGloryisHere]

It's not that you need character to have a miracle ministry, you absolutely don't.

You need character to maintain integrity and without that no-one will be interested in your ministry and you cannot get your message across.

Swaggart was taking in $8 mill per MONTH when he was caught "pants down". He was watched by more people than any other minister in history ever.

Now, no one wants to know. Character is essential. But not for the anointing. The only people God anoints are unworthy in the natural because they are the only people there are.

Cheers,
|ZZ|

I have to differ with you on that one. My anointing goes up and down based on my character and where I am with God. It may have been that way in the past, but God is a lot more strict in these last days, and He's not allowing disobediance to have strong anointings anymore. The more I have obediance in my life, the more stronger the anointing is in my life.

I heard John Bevere say in a message I heard today, that God is coming back for a bride, not a disobediant adulterous bride.

 

[TheGloryisHere]

I agree with VictoryWord - I too have heard many critics claim this but I have been in the faith camp for a long time and I was never taught to throw problems back at people - its actually a mean spirited way to go about things if someone has a problem just blame their lack of faith.
This is a mis-characterization of the WOF doctrine that I have been taught - like VW said if a brother is in lack you help him and build him up - you don't question his faith causing guilt and doubt - that just makes things worse.

I've been hearing this said about faith ppl. But, the preachers I sit under don't say this at all. It's not a lack of faith, it's a lack of word. But, you don't say it that way to condemn. I've been pretty much word of faith for the past 30 years even when I went to Charismatic or Vineyard churches. And I was never told I had a lack of faith. Ken Copeland teaches we just need to sit under the word, and the faith will auto come. Faith comes by hearing and hearing and hearing the word. It's nothing magical about it, and it's not really that hard. Just sit under the word and faith comes.

I'm sorry you have been condemned by so called faith ppl.... But, that's not what our head leaders are teaching.

 

[TheGloryisHere]

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Where in this scripture does it say "where is your faith?"

it actually does say where is your faith, when it says that faith without actions is dead. Dead faith means you don't have any faith.