"Right to Exist"?

[DanielRB]

This thread is about whether Israel has a 'right to exist' as a nation where it is.

Actually, no, it's not specifically about Israel...it's about the idea of "right to exist". See the OP.

In the murky history of mankind, what has always proven to be the most enduring defence of any nation's 'right to exist' has been it's ability to defend itself either legally or militarily, but ultimately it is military power that is the final decider.

Yes, I completely agree.

The American native nations failed to defend their legitimate right to exist because of military inferiority, otherwise they would still be where they were. The same with Australia's aborigines, and with many other nations.

Again, I agree.

I have never heard of any nation inviting a whole other nation to just come and settle in their space and take over, they always resist, whether successfully or not.

Yes, if defined that way...though sometimes a nation invites others over to settle, only to be later overwhellmed by them. (For example, Mexico inviting US settlers who eventually rebelled and formed the Republic of Texas.)

Ultimately every nation has to fight to continue to exist. Who is to be the arbiter in these disputes? The UN is hampered in this role by the power of 'veto' of the most powerful nations, who will defend their interests regardless of any 'justice' issues.

Agreed.

[quot]eThis is why my argument that God is the only final arbiter in such matters carries weight. It is he who appoints the times and boundaries of the nations (Acts 17:26). God has said that when He restores Israel, He will fight for them, and no-one will be able to prevail over them.[/quote]

He also fights against them at times--remember, he sent both the Babylonians and Romans to punish them.

This may seem an overly simple argument to some, but history has shown this to be true. Which other nation has successfully re-established themselves in their original place after thousands of years of exile, amidst the determination of surrounding nations to prevent them, and has defeated a combined multi-national army many times their size in six days to confirm their national sovereignty!?

What other nation has had any other nation's exact historical circumstances? Sure, if God didn't want the modern State of Israel to exist, it would be a simple matter for him to end it. But that doesn't mean God is pleased with it necessarily.

Daniel

 

[whereisthetruth]

Actually, no, it's not specifically about Israel...it's about the idea of "right to exist". See the OP.

Yes you are right. The subject of the thread may have been a general one to begin with, but it quickly focused on Israel.

Yes, if defined that way...though sometimes a nation invites others over to settle, only to be later overwhellmed by them. (For example, Mexico inviting US settlers who eventually rebelled and formed the Republic of Texas.)

You obviously know your American history better than I do, but you make a good point. I will have to study up on US history won't I.

He also fights against them at times--remember, he sent both the Babylonians and Romans to punish them.

What other nation has had any other nation's exact historical circumstances? Sure, if God didn't want the modern State of Israel to exist, it would be a simple matter for him to end it. But that doesn't mean God is pleased with it necessarily.

Absolutely right. But God didn't establish Israel in the land originally on the basis of them being a 'good' nation either. In fact He wiped out a whole generation of them in the Sinai for their unbelief. But it didn't stop Him from fulfilling his promise, and it won't today either. Actually God prophesies that Israel will be almost destroyed by their enemies after being restored in the last days, and only the return of Christ will deliver them. (I'll look up the passage and post it in this thread later.)

Just as Paul the Apostle said, the Jews have been bound over to disobedience until the times of the Gentiles have been fulfilled. (Rom 11:25) God's plans are higher than anything man does, whether good or evil. He 'will have mercy on whom he will have mercy'. Doesn't make sense to me, but that is how God is!