Rick Warren represents us?

[Zecryphon]

PC Fan, the goal of the gospel is not a mega-church. Ugh, where you get your ideas is beyond me. I wouldn't say the gospel has a 'goal'. That cheapens the message of Christ greatly. It makes it sound like a marketing gimmick or a business plan. The gospel is so much more. It's better than anything else that exists. And no, Rick Warren does not preach the true gospel, he preaches a cheapened gospel.

I heard his Christmas sermon last year. He likened the gospel to a game of golf. He said that what Jesus accomplished on the cross was to give us a mulligan. A do over. That's not what Jesus did. If you're going to be so tacky as to compare Jesus' suffering and death on a cross to a game of golf, what you should say is that Jesus played the perfect game and has given His scorecard to us. Warren preaches the Christian instead of the Christ. Go read the Purpose Driven Life. Go read about all the things Warren says you have to do to have a relationship with God. It stands in direct contradiction to the gospel. It's works-righteousness.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

[snippety...]

I find this kinda embarassing that somehow Rick Warren is representing conservative Christians & conservatives in general How did this happen?

Concur The most famous Christians at the moment are probably Warren, Bentley and the Anglican bishop. Yeppers

 

[Zecryphon]

Concur The most famous Christians at the moment are probably Warren, Bentley and the Anglican bishop. Yeppers

You forgot Osteen.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

You forgot Osteen.

Hullo again! Tis good to see ya

Ok, have recently been hearing an awful lot of negativity about him. What's afoot? Has he started deviating from Biblical teachings?

 

[ReformedChapin]

Hullo again! Tis good to see ya

Ok, have recently been hearing an awful lot of negativity about him. What's afoot? Has he started deviating from Biblical teachings?

He's a sell out, at least every single sermon I've heard from him focuses on God "improving your life" and wants you to be successful.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di9-PebV634

 

[GreenMunchkin]

He's a sell out, at least every single sermon I've heard from him focuses on God "improving your life" and wants you to be successful.

God *does* improve our lives, though! That's absolutely an aspect of scriptures. The problem is when health and wealth preaching is so prolific it cancels out everything else. No repentance, or focusing on Jesus. God is turned into a big ole sugar daddy in the sky. But very few preachers actually take it that far, and Joel Osteen never used to. Bit sad if he has started

 

[Rhamiel]

I have read a little bit of the purpose driven life, it seems ok, not super awsome, but ok
one of the complaints i heard about it is that Warren does not preach about the resurrection of the dead, he just talks about us being spirits up in heaven.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Concur The most famous Christians at the moment are probably Warren, Bentley and the Anglican bishop. Yeppers

Which Anglican bishop? One of them, N.T. Wright, the Bishop of Durham, is a top theologian, pretty conservative and a particular favorite of mine. OTOH, Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, seems to go off on weird tangents sometimes.

I wouldn't take Rick Warren seriously as a theologian, but I don't think he claims to be one. I'd certainly ask him for advice on running a megachurch, if for some reason I should have to do that. (I hope not, I don't much care for megachurches.) Now I know him as a TV interviewer, and he seems to do pretty well at that.

Todd Bentley... well, I hear the name a lot, and a lot of what I hear doesn't sound good, but I really know nothing of him other than rumor.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

God *does* improve our lives, though! That's absolutely an aspect of scriptures. The problem is when health and wealth preaching is so prolific it cancels out everything else. No repentance, or focusing on Jesus. God is turned into a big ole sugar daddy in the sky. But very few preachers actually take it that far, and Joel Osteen never used to. Bit sad if he has started

Agreed on all points.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Which Anglican bishop? One of them, N.T. Wright, the Bishop of Durham, is a top theologian, pretty conservative and a particular favorite of mine. OTOH, Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, seems to go off on weird tangents sometimes.

Ooh, you're a mod now! Congradulatories, sissy!

I meant Gene Robinson... although, Rowan Williams doesn't do Christianity any favours, either. Apparently he's a member of some bizarre druidic society. Pfft.

I wouldn't take Rick Warren seriously as a theologian, but I don't think he claims to be one. I'd certainly ask him for advice on running a megachurch, if for some reason I should have to do that. (I hope not, I don't much care for megachurches.) Now I know him as a TV interviewer, and he seems to do pretty well at that.

No, he's definitely not a theologian. Must agree about megachurches, too. They literally all seem to propagate cafeteria Christianity

Todd Bentley... well, I hear the name a lot, and a lot of what I hear doesn't sound good, but I really know nothing of him other than rumor.

Preaching heresies (like, proper scariness, about an angel called Emma, and how we need to know about her instead of Jesus); kicking people in the stomach (having been told to by God, apparently!! UGH.) and now it's been found out he's been having an affair with a member of staff, so he's been removed. I dunno. We can't really know everything, for sure, but it all feels very squinky.

 

[MrJim]

Which Anglican bishop?

Probably the gay one..

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Ooh, you're a mod now! Congradulatories, sissy!

Thank you! I'm still just a trainee. We'll see how it goes.

I meant Gene Robinson... although, Rowan Williams doesn't do Christianity any favours, either. Apparently he's a member of some bizarre druidic society. Pfft.

Hmm, interesting.

Preaching heresies (like, proper scariness, about an angel called Emma, and how we need to know about her instead of Jesus); kicking people in the stomach (having been told to by God, apparently!! UGH.) and now it's been found out he's been having an affair with a member of staff, so he's been removed. I dunno. We can't really know everything, for sure, but it all feels very squinky.

That's really bizarre. :o

 

[Markus6]

Not sure I'm allowed to do this in here as a non-Conservative but I still wanted to try.

I meant Gene Robinson... although, Rowan Williams doesn't do Christianity any favours, either. Apparently he's a member of some bizarre druidic society. Pfft.

Do you have any proof of this druidic society claim or is it just because he's welsh and has a beard? As an Anglican I'd rather not see unsubstantiated rumours about the ABC spread.

Preaching heresies (like, proper scariness, about an angel called Emma, and how we need to know about her instead of Jesus); kicking people in the stomach (having been told to by God, apparently!! UGH.) and now it's been found out he's been having an affair with a member of staff, so he's been removed. I dunno. We can't really know everything, for sure, but it all feels very squinky.

I'm no supporter of Bentley but I do think we need to be careful to tell the truth about him. As far as I'm aware he's said nothing along the lines of "we need to know about Emma instead of Jesus". I also want to point out the incident with a member of staff was apparently only an "emotional affair".

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Not sure I'm allowed to do this in here as a non-Conservative but I still wanted to try.

Naw, I hope you're allowed I don't think the idea is to disallow discussion from non-conservatives altogether. Twould be sucky.

Do you have any proof of this druidic society claim or is it just because he's welsh and has a beard? As an Anglican I'd rather not see unsubstantiated rumours about the ABC spread.

Nope. Hence "apparently". It's something I've heard about him, so am happy to mention it.

I'm no supporter of Bentley but I do think we need to be careful to tell the truth about him. As far as I'm aware he's said nothing along the lines of "we need to know about Emma instead of Jesus". I also want to point out the incident with a member of staff was apparently only an "emotional affair".

You may want to look into that first thing a little more. His words were we need to know more about Emma, because we know about Jesus already and we need to know about the supernatural.

Oh. Only an emotional affair. Good thing I didn't say they were going at it every night, then. An emotional affair, is an affair. That he has form for it is also relevant. But I didn't mention that as it hasn't been stated that it was sexual this time. But an affair is an affair is an affair. I don't believe I've misrepresented him in any way.

 

[Markus6]

Naw, I hope you're allowed I don't think the idea is to disallow discussion from non-conservatives altogether. Twould be sucky.

Thanks for making me feel welcome

Nope. Hence "apparently". It's something I've heard about him, so am happy to mention it.

I have a lot of respect for Rowan Williams and he is having a very trying time as leader of the third largest Christian denomination during probably their most unstable time. I appreciate you may not share my regard for him but I'm pretty sure that the druid thing is a lie and I don't think you should be passing it on.

You may want to look into that first thing a little more. His words were we need to know more about Emma, because we know about Jesus already and we need to know about the supernatural.

I googled "Todd Bentley Emma quote" and failed to find anything to that effect. I already agree that the Emma thing is totally weird and not of God but if you have a link to a source for that quote I would appreciate it.

Oh. Only an emotional affair. Good thing I didn't say they were going at it every night, then. An emotional affair, is an affair. That he has form for it is also relevant. But I didn't mention that as it hasn't been stated that it was sexual this time. But an affair is an affair is an affair. I don't believe I've misrepresented him in any way.

I agree, I just think it's important to be clear or else the next person who hears may assume physical affair and tell that to someone else and before you know it a lie is being spread.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Thanks for making me feel welcome

Of course you're welcome! Everyone should be welcome to hang out here. Besides, it's awesome having another Brit around

I have a lot of respect for Rowan Williams and he is having a very trying time as leader of the third largest Christian denomination during probably their most unstable time. I appreciate you may not share my regard for him but I'm pretty sure that the druid thing is a lie and I don't think you should be passing it on.

Hmm. I don't have any bad feeling toward him. It's never actually crossed my mind. But we were discussing the "famous" Christians who are damaging the body of Christ, and tales of druidic societies certainly do that - rumour or truth. So it seemed relevant. But I can't say I've ever given it much thought, really.

I googled "Todd Bentley Emma quote" and failed to find anything to that effect. I already agree that the Emma thing is totally weird and not of God but if you have a link to a source for that quote I would appreciate it.

It was a youtube video here somewhere. Maybe in the SF forum? But, for what it's worth, I was sceptical, too, until I saw it. Just as I was about the kicking an elderly woman in the stomach. But if you have a look at Youtube, it'll be there somewhere.

I agree, I just think it's important to be clear or else the next person who hears may assume physical affair and tell that to someone else and before you know it a lie is being spread.

Sorry, can I just ask, then, is an emotional affair somehow more acceptable than a phyiscal one? I'd say, if anything, that it's far more serious and damaging. Given we agree an affair is an affair is an affair why would we need to specify what *type* of affair?

 

[Markus6]

I meant Gene Robinson... although, Rowan Williams doesn't do Christianity any favours, either. Apparently he's a member of some bizarre druidic society. Pfft.

Having dug around I suspect you're talking about this. I'll leave you to form your own opinions.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Having dug around I suspect you're talking about this. I'll leave you to form your own opinions.

Thanks for looking Must admit, though, that has me a little more convinced than before that there's something wrong. The masons claim to be a Christian organisation, too, and they're about as unChristian as it gets. Celtic druidism, regardless of Christian hymns being sung, is deeply pagan in origin.

And, whatever's going on behind the scenes, if it is all above board, that's hugely misleading and, at best, ambiguous.

 

[Markus6]

Of course you're welcome! Everyone should be welcome to hang out here. Besides, it's awesome having another Brit around

Thanks!

Sorry, can I just ask, then, is an emotional affair somehow more acceptable than a phyiscal one? I'd say, if anything, that it's far more serious and damaging. Given we agree an affair is an affair is an affair why would we need to specify what *type* of affair?

Not acceptable in anyway. However, I would say it was less serious and damaging. Emotional affairs lead to physical affairs in the majority of circumstances I'd assume. For him to have ended the affair before it turned physical and confessed to it is, I think, something we should appreciate.

Sex is a powerful act on a spiritual and emotional level and not just a physical one. It is the act that unites two people as one and Paul talks about how a believer can't unite himself a prostitute. To unite yourself with someone outside the bonds of your marriage must be very damaging. There are also physical dangers to sexual affairs that aren't present in emotional affair: illegitimate children and STDs for example.

 

[Markus6]

Thanks for looking Must admit, though, that has me a little more convinced than before that there's something wrong. The masons claim to be a Christian organisation, too, and they're about as unChristian as it gets. Celtic druidism, regardless of Christian hymns being sung, is deeply pagan in origin.

And, whatever's going on behind the scenes, if it is all above board, that's hugely misleading and, at best, ambiguous.

My take was that the organisation was in no way pagan ("But Elfyn Llwyd, Plaid Cymru MP and a member of the Gorsedd of Bards himself, said the group "clearly isn't a pagan organisation".") and just a way to honour people who were contributing to welsh language and culture. If your concern is that it sends the wrong signals to people then that's probably valid (and I'm sure it did). However, it seems safe to say that the ceremony did not represent any pagan beliefs on Rowan William's part.

If you're worried about being misleading and ambiguous you probably won't like him at all. I recall last year there were some quite controversial news stories about him and things he had said. On investigation the quotes were out of context and I didn't have a problem with anything he said but the media had successfully used his words to make it seem like he held some rather off the wall views. He is an incredibly bright guy but unfortunately susceptible to being misrepresented, especially in the press.

Interesting another controversy was around an email he sent saying he "had real misgivings about the compatibility of Masonry and Christian profession" to fit in with another thing you said.