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Rich-man and Lazarus True story or Parable

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x141

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AMEN!
What would you or others say is the greatest emphasis from Jesus concerning the parable? :groupray:

......

The part of the law that he qouted just before he started the discourse that the parable became an example of. Not to mention what led up to quoting the law.

The law has three phases so to speak, one at the eating of the tree (a passover that was not true) One in the wilderness (pentecost that was not true) and one in Jesus, tabernacles ... the law of Life/Truth or father.
 
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x141

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Whoa! Calling Jesus Christ a parable is beyond heretical!
thud.gif

Christ is The Word.

Jesus' life was a prophetic parable, in this sense that the things he encountered and his reponse to them revealed the way back. A son is not complete until he returns to his Father.

Though I didn't read the post that you reffered to his first miracle opens his entire path.

Like the components of the parable, they are there always but in different forms, just like they are through the entire book.

Jesus himself is the truth or answer to all his parables.
 
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martymonster

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Christ spoke in parables as a way of hiding the truth from people.
He worded those parables in such a way that He was giving you enough rope so you could hang yourself according to the filthiness of your heart.

He points out that He speaks only to the multitudes in parables because it is not given to them to know the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven.
If Christ said this and then taught the Rich man and Lazarus as a straight foward account then He lied about it not being given to the multitudes to know the mysteries of the kingdom of the heavens.
Notice that He calls them the "Mysteries" of the kingdom of the heavens which implies He never taught straight forward simple teachings on in parables.
There are several bible verses that talk about this.



Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


The reason most christian's do no want and will not accept what this verse is saying is because it just doesn't fit in with their theology.
Firstly a Christ who speaks in parables doesn't ring true as someone who is desperately rushing around trying to save everybody from a fabled eternal fire and secondly because they will not admit that they are blind a that the truth is hidden from them.


Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
Mat 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.


This verse makes it perfectly clear that Christ had no intention of speaking plainly of the Father to the multitudes at this time.


1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.


The milk that Paul is talking about here is the letter as opposed to the spirit of the word.
The same words to one person can mean something completely different to someone else who is able to see the spirit rather than the letter.
The letter kills but the spirit gives life.


Joh 16:25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.


If Christ had spoken plainly in his teahings why would He now need to speak plainly to them at a later date?
Obviously because the parables of the Kingdom of the Heavens revealed who Christ is and therefore the Father and this eternal life giving knowledge and understanding.
 
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x141

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One has to consider that the two men, richman and poorman/Lazrurus were sons of Abraham in picture, an Ishmael and an Isaac. It is the richman that has five brothers as the woman at the well has five husbands, but the one she had now was not her own, the truth of this was the one sitting on the well.
 
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toLiJC

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it is just a parable, the "rich man" is some cleric of the unrighteous religion. "lazarus" is a non-believer, the parable shows that namely the iniquity in the faith may cause afflictions, lazarus is just a victim of the religious/spiritual iniquity, the unrighteous clerics are causers, because namely they are the servants of the unrighteous religion(Luke 16:27-31)
 
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2KnowHim

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A Parable, Both the same man, the one is taken the other left.

The Rich man, = Rich in this World, The flesh, Position.
Lazarus, = Poor in Spirit
The crumbs = The Living Word
The Gate, = The heart

Both dying, The flesh returns to the dust, the spirit returns unto God who gave it.

Can I back it up? No, do I believe it? yes.
 
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Timothew

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I never saw a parable that contained proper names...I'd say it's a actual happening.
The definition of parable:
1. a short story that uses familiar events to illustrate a religious or ethical point Related adjs parabolic, parabolical
2. (Christian Religious Writings / Bible) any of the stories of this kind told by Jesus Christ

There is no "No-Names" rule. A parable can have names or it may not.
Once there was a boy named John who never went to school. John never learned to read.
There was a certain boy who never went to school, he never learned to read.
These are both parables, one contains a name, the other doesn't.
 
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Timothew

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Who made up that definition? Find me another parable with a proper name and I'll buy it :)
The definition is from the online dictionary. Find me a definition from an established dictionary that includes the no-name-rule and I'll buy it. Until then, how about the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man as a parable with a proper name? :)

Here's another parable with a proper name. This parable is not from the bible.
One day Foolish Jack's mother sent him out to work for a farmer, after a long day of work out in the feilds, the farmer paid Jack a penny. Jack put the penny in his handkerchief, but on the way home he lost his handkerchief along with the penny. His mother scolded him and told Jack that he should have put the penny in his pocket. The next day Jack went out to work at the dairy. After his day of work, the dairyman paid him with a jug of fresh milk. He didn't want to lose the milk, like he lost the penny, so remembering his mother's advice about putting the penny in his pocket, he decided to put the jug of milk in his pocket. Of course in doing so, the milk spilled out of the jug.

When he arrived home his mother scolded him again, and told him he should have carried the jug of milk home on his head.
 
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Timothew

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Here is another parable containing a proper name.

King Midas is a King who is in love with his gold, and thinks it is the best thing in the world. A fairy appears and grants him one wish. The King wishes that everything he touches turns to gold. His wish is granted. Midas turns his castle to gold, he turns his garden to gold, and at first all seems pretty great. Until he turns his food to gold and is unable to eat, and then worst of all when his daughter comes running up to him to give him a hug she turns to gold. The king, who loves his daughter very much is very upset and sad, and calls to the fairy to undo his wish. The fairy comes back, and asks if the king still thinks gold is the best thing in the world, and he says no. Since the king realizes what is important, the fairy takes pity and reverses his wish, his daughter is restored to him, and he goes on to appreciate what is important in life.
 
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Timothew

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Been googling. Here's the parable of the Jack O Lantern. This parable also contains a proper name.
According to the centuries old Irish folk tale Stingy Jack was a man who played a few too many practical jokes on the Devil. When Jack died, God wouldn’t allow him into Heaven. And since the Devil didn’t like him either, he wasn’t allowed into hell. So Stingy Jack was destined to return to earth with the gift of a burning coal from the Devil. He placed the coal in a carved-out turnip and has been using it ever since to light his way as he roams the earth.
 
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Timothew

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With this exception, can you find another one that has a proper name? Stingy Jack doesn't appear in the Bible ^_^
It is still a parable that contains a name. The only parable in the bible that contains a name is the parable of Lazarus and Dives, and that is the one we are discussing. To discover if parables can use names we must first go to a reputable definition, which I have done. Then we must look at extra-biblical parables to see if we can find some that contain names. Which I have also done. The Parable of Foolish Jack, Jack O'Lantern, and King Midas. I'm sure there are more.
 
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x141

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With this exception, can you find another one that has a proper name? Stingy Jack doesn't appear in the Bible ^_^

Could have it been prophetic seeing how Lazurus was the name of his friend that Jesus later, symbolicly went to wake up ...
 
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98cwitr

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It is still a parable that contains a name. The only parable in the bible that contains a name is the parable of Lazarus and Dives, and that is the one we are discussing. To discover if parables can use names we must first go to a reputable definition, which I have done. Then we must look at extra-biblical parables to see if we can find some that contain names. Which I have also done. The Parable of Foolish Jack, Jack O'Lantern, and King Midas. I'm sure there are more.

None of the other examples you provide are from the Bible though. I digress to my original stance...it's not a parable because it doesn't even read like one...you might want it to be a parable based on your beliefs surrounding hell and the afterlife, but truth doesn't depend on what you or I believe.

...many parables do have names.

Not in the Bible they don't. I think you just want it to be a parable, am I right?
 
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