Rich-man and Lazarus True story or Parable

[LittleLambofJesus]

WHY would any N.T. account have any relevance to their understandings? I have to meet them on their own ground when I witness GODS LOVE to them. And most of them already have that much figured out for themselves...no different than WE DO for ourselves.

Because Jesus spoke that parable to them, as He did most or all the parables in the NT/NC

Isaiah 28:11 And with stammering/deriding lip and in-tongue, another He shall speak to the people, this.

Ezekiel 17:2 Son of adam, propound thou a riddle and speak thou a proverb/04912 mashal unto house of Israel

 

[squint]

Because Jesus spoke that parable to them, as He did most or all the pabables in the NT/NC

So says YOU...I believe ALL OF GODS WORDS are for ALL PEOPLE just like Jesus said.

I try not to DIVIDE Jesus from His Own Words of the Old Testament as there is no sane use doing such a thing.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

So says YOU...I believe ALL OF GODS WORDS are for ALL PEOPLE just like Jesus said.

I try not to DIVIDE Jesus from His Own Words of the Old Testament as there is no sane use doing such a thing.

I won't debate this with you on this thread squint.

I would like to hear views from others though

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Any more views on this topic?

 

[brinny]

Greetings. How do others view that story Jesus told to the Jews in Luke 16 concerning the rich-man and lazarus. A parable or true story? This is one of the largest studies I have of the NT/NC.

I myself humbly view it as a "Covenantle" parable, but would like to here views from other fellow Christians of it. Thanks.......

Matthew 3:9 "And no ye should be thinking to say in yourselves 'a Father we are having, the Abraham'. For I am saying unto ye, that is able the God out of the Stones, these, to raise-up offsprings/children to the Abraham. [Luke 3:8/16:24]

Luke 16:24 And he sounding said: "Father Abraham! be thou merciful to-me! and send Lazarus!, that he should be dipping the tip of the finger of him of water, and should be cooling down the tongue of me,--that I am being pained in the Flame,this."

i haven't narrowed it down to truth or just a parable yet, but i do believe it's based on truth.

I believe there's a deeper purposein Jesus' use of parables that we are aware of....not sure what that is yet

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

i haven't narrowed it down to truth or just a parable yet, but i do believe it's based on truth.

I believe there's a deeper purposein Jesus' use of parables that we are aware of....not sure what that is yet

I agree! I found the relation between this passage in Matt 22 and Zeph 1 fairly interesting

Matthew 22:11 And entering yet the King to gaze of the ones the reclining, he saw there a Man/anqrwpon <444> not in-slipped/endedumenon <1746> cothing/enduma <1742> of wedding-feast [Zeph 1:8/Luke 16:24]

Zeph 1:7 Hush! in presence of my Lord YHWH, that near Day of YHWH. That YHWH prepares a sacrifice, He sanctifies ones being called of Him.
8 And becomes in Day of sacrifice of YHWH and I visit/06485 paqad on the chiefs and on sons of the King and on all of ones being clothed/03847 labash clothing/04403 malbuwsh foreign. [Matt 22:11/Luke 16:24]

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Any other views?

 

[watchm@n]

It is unclear. The tone of the story is parable-ish. However, it would be the only one like it that uses actual names. Interpreters throughout history who believe it to be a true story point this out.

Yes it was a true story an honestly it wasn't even parable-ish. Parables usually stated with The kingdom of Heaven is like, and the such like. This was a straight forward true story Christ was giving.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I agree! I found the relation between this passage in Matt 22 and Zeph 1 fairly interesting

Matthew 22:11 And entering yet the King to gaze of the ones the reclining, he saw there a Man/anqrwpon <444> not in-slipped/endedumenon <1746> cothing/enduma <1742> of wedding-feast [Zeph 1:8/Luke 16:24]

Zeph 1:7 Hush! in presence of my Lord YHWH, that near Day of YHWH. That YHWH prepares a sacrifice, He sanctifies ones being called of Him.
8 And becomes in Day of sacrifice of YHWH and I visit/06485 paqad on the chiefs and on sons of the King and on all of ones being clothed/03847 labash clothing/04403 malbuwsh foreign. [Matt 22:11/Luke 16:24]

I view that "rich-man" as a type of an apostate High Priest, as that is who Jesus addressed in this rather interesting passage:

Matthew 26:64 Jesus is saying to him "thou say, moreover I am saying to ye from present/now ye shall be seeing the Son of the Man sitting out of rights of the power and coming upon the clouds of the heaven".

Revelation 1:7 Behold! He is coming with the clouds, and shall be seeing Him every eye.........[Jeremiah 4:13/Matt 24:30]

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

 

[TheCatholic]

The covenantal understanding of this parable put forth by J. P. Eby is probably one of the POOREST dissections of that scripture set that I have EVER read. It's so full of holes I cannot count them all.

And it is USED to heap JUDGMENT upon the people of Israel, and in that way it is ANTI-Semitic at it's CORE. I am quite surprise you would practice that quite frankly. But once these types of ANTI-RACE views dig into the heart they are hard to DITCH.

I'd ask you what in the world yer thinkin' but whatever...

s

I think you are out of line calling LittleLamb anti-Semitic

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I think you are out of line calling LittleLamb anti-Semitic

I am used to it, as even some members of my own family have implied the same thing ever since I started reading the Bible [they believe in some future "rapture" and contribute to Zionists organization, including something called "Temple Mount Faithfull]. The Bible tends to do that I suppose..... But let's get back to the topic.....God bless

Working to Rebuild the Temple Mount in Jerusalem

Challenge To Believers From The Nations

1. The work of G-d in His redemption process does not affect Israel alone but, indeed, all nations will directly benefit from His blessing. Therefore, all who have placed hope in the Scriptures and have faith in the One true G-d are invited to participate in the activities of the Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement.
   
2. You are challenged also to contribute financially to the work of the Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement. All work done for the organization is done by volunteers. There are no salaried employees. Annual financial statements are available upon request by contributors.

 

[Thekla]

I think you are out of line calling LittleLamb anti-Semitic

ditto

(consider statements made by the Gospel writers ...)

 

[Thekla]

Just to be a bit off the present topic, but kinda on-topic too,
I am fascinated that the rich man and Lazaros both "see" Abraham. But for the rich man, the experience is like burning, and for Lazaros it is comfort.
(And again, this recalls for me the reactions to the proto-martyr Stephen in Acts.)

 

[squint]

I think you are out of line calling LittleLamb anti-Semitic

I would never call LLOJ as Gods Child an anti-semite.

That working does however often ENTER the flesh of certain people and it is a SEPARTE working than the person it enters. They often have no idea they are a 'carrier.' But when they start condemning JEWS on any basis...that working is revealed to be IN THEM by their own MOUTH.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I would never call LLOJ as Gods Child an anti-semite.

That working does however often ENTER the flesh of certain people and it is a SEPARTE working than the person it enters. They often have no idea they are a 'carrier.' But when they start condemning JEWS on any basis...that working is revealed to be IN THEM by their own MOUTH.

That would depend on which "sect" of the Judeans

John 8:44 Ye out of a father the Devil are and the desires of the father of ye, ye are willing to be doing.

Matthew 21:43 Therefore I am saying to ye, that shall be being taken-away from Ye the Kingdom of the God, and it shall be being given to a Nation doing the Fruits of it.

 

[squint]

That would depend on which "sect" of the Judeans

Jewish people are Jewish people no matter their 'sect.'

All of them are taught by Gods Words of the O.T. to be GODS CHILDREN...

Any 'spirit' that seeks to condemn Gods children...well...there is a day in waiting for same called WRATH...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Jewish people are Jewish people no matter their 'sect.'

All of them are taught by Gods Words of the O.T. to be GODS CHILDREN...

Any 'spirit' that seeks to condemn Gods children...well...there is a day in waiting for same called WRATH...

Squint. Please stick to the topic of this thread and quit derailing it.....thanks

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Just to be a bit off the present topic, but kinda on-topic too,
I am fascinated that the rich man and Lazaros both "see" Abraham. But for the rich man, the experience is like burning, and for Lazaros it is comfort.
(And again, this recalls for me the reactions to the proto-martyr Stephen in Acts.)

Great observation Thekla and thanks so much for pointing that out!

I believe that is also another key clue to the identity both groups of people.

Who would call Abraham their father in the NT? Definately not heathen unbelievers I would think.

In vs 24 it is the singular but in vs 26 it is plural when Abraham speaks to the richman.

I can view this as the 2 Covenants mentioned in Galatian 4 and in fact, I have always viewed this parable as "Covenantle". Thoughts?

Luke 16:24 And he sounding said "Father Abraham! be thou merciful to-me! and send Lazarus!............

Luke 16:26 And upon all of these between us [GRACE?] and ye [LAW?] a great chasm hath been established............

Here Paul speaks of these 2 Covenants as an "alleghory". One representing LAW and one representing GRACE!

Galatian 4:24 which things is an allegory. For these are the two Covenants, one indeed from mount Sinai into servitude generating/gennwsa <1080> who-any is Hagar.

 

[TheCatholic]

I would never call LLOJ as Gods Child an anti-semite.

That working does however often ENTER the flesh of certain people and it is a SEPARTE working than the person it enters. They often have no idea they are a 'carrier.' But when they start condemning JEWS on any basis...that working is revealed to be IN THEM by their own MOUTH.

So people who sin are not responsible for their sins? They are just "carriers", as if sin is some sort of virus? That in not true, not in the slightest