Rich-man and Lazarus True story or Parable

[LittleLambofJesus]

The ax I ws referring to is the doctrine of eternal torment. The eternal torment side needs this parable to be a true story or they lose one of their "proofs".
The non-eternal torment side needs this to be a parable, because if it is literally true it shows a picture of a man in torment in flames.
I guess it's a two bitted axe.

Or double edged sword

Hebrews 4:12 for the word of God is living and inworking and sharp above every two-edged sword,
and piercing unto the dividing asunder both of soul and spirit, of joints also and marrow, and a discerner of thoughts and intents of the heart;

Revelation 2:12 " And to the messenger of the assembly in Pergamos write!, 'These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword:

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus Great testimony.
Now back to the parable/story of the rich man and Lazarus

And i cannot express enough how true it is. Jesus is my lifeline, my sanity, my savior and redeemer.
If i were in church i would be singing praises to Him, i sing now in my heart and he is with me.

Me too
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=SING&t=YLT&sf=5
"SING"
occurs 104 times in 93 verses in the YLT

Exodus 15:1 Then sang Moses and the sons of Israel this song unto YAHWEH,
and they spake, saying,--'I will sing to YAHWEH, for He is exalted, exalted,--The horse and his rider hath He cast into the sea'.

Revelation 15:3 and they sing the song of Moses the servant of God and the song of the Lamb, saying--'Great and marvelous, are thy works, Lord, God, the Almighty! Righteous and true, are thy ways, O King of the ages!'

 

[Timothew]

Great testimony.
Now back to the parable/story of the rich man and Lazarus

My testimony is that I would be dead right now, if Jesus hadn't rescued me. I was suicidal, and looking for the best way to do it. The suicidal tendencies were removed completely and replaced with joie-de-vivre, joy of life.

 

[RaiseTheDead]

What de heck are you doing here, LLoJ?

The rich man and Lazarus is one of those great and timeless tales, not from the crypt, but from the Master. Like most of His words, the meaning conveyed seems inexhaustible

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

What de heck are you doing here, LLoJ?

The rich man and Lazarus is one of those great and timeless tales, not from the crypt, but from the Master.
Like most of His words, the meaning conveyed seems inexhaustible

Thou art wise beyond yer years

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number G1203 matches the Greek δεσπότης (despotēs), which occurs 10 times in 10 verses in the Greek concordance

Revelation 6:10 and they were crying with a great voice, saying, `Till when, O Master/despothV <1203>, the Holy and the True, dost Thou not judge and take vengeance of our blood from those dwelling upon the land?'

 

[Timothew]

Thou art wise beyond yer years

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number G1203 matches the Greek &#948;&#949;&#963;&#960;&#8057;&#964;&#951;&#962; (despot&#275;s), which occurs 10 times in 10 verses in the Greek concordance

Revelation 6:10 and they were crying with a great voice, saying, `Till when, O Master/despothV <1203>, the Holy and the True, dost Thou not judge and take vengeance of our blood from those dwelling upon the land?'

"Lord, (kurie) do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?” (hey, they understood that fire consumes whatever it burns, I wonder when that changed to fire being eternal torment???)

 

[weathered]

"Lord, (kurie) do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?” (hey, they understood that fire consumes whatever it burns, I wonder when that changed to fire being eternal torment???)

I dont think any of us fully understand all things let alone hell. We are all in the same boat, none are right or wrong about everything. If one could be right all the time they would not need a savior.

 

[ebia]

Every name in the bible means something. Jesus name means savior, is he a parable? Like a previous poster said, it seems like a stretch.

You said "it seems unnecessary to give the beggar a name". That argument is demolished by showing that the name has literary purpose.

It doesn't prove it is a parable, but showing that the name has a function in the story appropriate to a parable demolishes the "why would Jesus invent a name" argument.

In most parables with many major characters each character either stands for God or potentially for a listener. In the good Samaritan story one can place oneself as any of the victim, Samaritan, priest or levite for instance. Or as the older or younger brother (or even father) in the parable of the sons. Naming a character stops one doing that.

It's worth noting that Lazarus is not as the average bible reader might suppose, an unusual name. It's the diminutive of Eleazar - the third or fourth most common boy's name. In that sense the literary equivalent of "Dave".

 

[2KnowHim]

"Lord, (kurie) do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?” (hey, they understood that fire consumes whatever it burns, I wonder when that changed to fire being eternal torment???)

I dont think any of us fully understand all things let alone hell. We are all in the same boat, none are right or wrong about everything. If one could be right all the time they would not need a savior.

That's true, we may not understand fully everything, but this thing is certain.
What was Jesus's Response to them when they said this?


Luk 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
Luk 9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

It is evident that it was "not" the spirit of Truth, but another spirit that said this.

 

[weathered]

You said "it seems unnecessary to give the beggar a name". That argument is demolished by showing that the name has literary purpose.

It doesn't prove it is a parable, but showing that the name has a function in the story appropriate to a parable demolishes the "why would Jesus invent a name" argument.

In most parables with many major characters each character either stands for God or potentially for a listener. In the good Samaritan story one can place oneself as any of the victim, Samaritan, priest or levite for instance. Or as the older or younger brother (or even father) in the parable of the sons. Naming a character stops one doing that.

It's worth noting that Lazarus is not as the average bible reader might suppose, an unusual name. It's the diminutive of Eleazar - the third or fourth most common boy's name. In that sense the literary equivalent of "Dave".

I dont think it demolishes it. I think all of it on all sides seems like speculation. But i dont know everything, not even close. I dont know, i just love Jesus and like discussing scripture so here i am.

 

[weathered]

"Lord, (kurie) do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?” (hey, they understood that fire consumes whatever it burns, I wonder when that changed to fire being eternal torment???)




That's true, we may not understand fully everything, but this thing is certain.
What was Jesus's Response to them when they said this?


Luk 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
Luk 9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

It is evident that it was "not" the spirit of Truth, but another spirit that said this.

The bible does say that we should save some with fear, Jesus did say that we should not fear man but instead warned us who we should fear, fear God who is able to destroy body and soul in hell, the bible does use the phrase eternal punishment, eternal darkness. Why condemn the preaching of Hell? Doesn't it help? It sure helped me.

 

[dollarsbill]

Politics, what a scam. I actually once thought politics actually mattered. I guess sometime i tend to still think that way until i come to me senses again.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by RaiseTheDead

What de heck are you doing here, LLoJ?

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Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

Thou art wise beyond yer years
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"Lord, (kurie) do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?&#8221; (hey, they understood that fire consumes whatever it burns, I wonder when that changed to fire being eternal torment???)

I always did like that passage

http://www.christianforums.com/t7546561-3/#post57059645
Is it legitimate to call fire down from heaven like Elijah did?

Luke 9:54 Seeing yet His disciples, James and John say "Lord! Thou are willing we may be saying 'fire to descend from the heaven and to consume them' even as EliYah did"?
[1 King 18:38/Reve 11:5/ 20:9]

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Politics, what a scam. I actually once thought politics actually mattered. I guess sometime i tend to still think that way until i come to me senses again.

Politics and religion can make strange bedfellows

Matthew 27:24 And Pilate having seen that it profiteth nothing, but rather a tumult is made, having taken water, he did wash the hands before the multitude, saying, `I am innocent from the blood of this righteous one; ye--ye shall see;'

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

So much concerning this celebrated city, and its still more celebrated temple. We shall now consider our LORD's prophecies relating to their destruction.

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ; and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah !
At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival. How suitable and how kind, then, was the prophetic admonition of our LORD, and how clearly he into futurity when he said "Let not them that are in the countries enter into Jerusalem." Luke xxi. 21

 

[brinny]

Politics and religion can make strange bedfellows

Matthew 27:24 And Pilate having seen that it profiteth nothing, but rather a tumult is made, having taken water, he did wash the hands before the multitude, saying, `I am innocent from the blood of this righteous one; ye--ye shall see;'

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

So much concerning this celebrated city, and its still more celebrated temple. We shall now consider our LORD's prophecies relating to their destruction.

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ; and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah !
At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival. How suitable and how kind, then, was the prophetic admonition of our LORD, and how clearly he into futurity when he said "Let not them that are in the countries enter into Jerusalem." Luke xxi. 21

Pilate was in a tough spot....somehow i've always thought that he was less culpable than those who sought Jesus' death with a vengeance and actually let a criminal go free in exchange for Jesus.

 

[weathered]

Politics and religion can make strange bedfellows

Matthew 27:24 And Pilate having seen that it profiteth nothing, but rather a tumult is made, having taken water, he did wash the hands before the multitude, saying, `I am innocent from the blood of this righteous one; ye--ye shall see;'

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

So much concerning this celebrated city, and its still more celebrated temple. We shall now consider our LORD's prophecies relating to their destruction.

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ; and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah !
At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival. How suitable and how kind, then, was the prophetic admonition of our LORD, and how clearly he into futurity when he said "Let not them that are in the countries enter into Jerusalem." Luke xxi. 21

Politics and the gospel don't mix to well, at least in my personal experience anyway. Some people may be able to pull it off but i get sucked into the partisan bickering, and its hard to love the other side of the political spectrum when bickering and fighting with them. And the politicians make sure we are divided, they use trickery and deceit to cause division, they cannot be trusted, they will promise everything but only bring misery, they lie more than tell the truth and even when they tell the truth sometimes they find a way to turn it into a lie.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

Politics and religion can make strange bedfellows

​

Pilate was in a tough spot....somehow i've always thought that he was less culpable than those who sought Jesus' death with a vengeance and actually let a criminal go free in exchange for Jesus.

I imagine Pilate cringed when the Jews exclaimed this to him

John 19:12 From then on Pilate sought to release Him, but the Jews cried out, saying, "If you let this Man go, you are not Caesar's friend.
Whoever makes himself a king speaks against Caesar."

 

[Timothew]

The same can be said about Republicans and Democrats

Luke 3:9 "And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees.
Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."

Great Idea LLOJ, throw both candidates away and let's pick a new dem and rep to run for prez.

 

[KimberlyAA]

It's a parable.

 

[Timothew]

It's a parable.

What about this no-names-rule they talk about?

Is there any rule that says a parable teller is prohibited from ever uttering a name during the telling of a parable?