Revelation in order?

[iamlamad]

Everyone is led to be so sure from the interpretations they hear from others, that rather than see things in light of other scripture passages see things in their own time frames that were not known in the times of the Bible for fulfillment.

I also find that many people pull verses out of their context. In Revelation, context is extremely important. As an example, someone reads about the first seal, and the white horse and rider, and immediately declares it to be the Antichrist, completely ignoring the context of the first seal, which is the complete vision of the throne room in chapters 4 & 5. Chapter 5 shows Jesus entering the throne room where He had not been seen anywhere in chapter 4, and immediately sending the Holy Spirit down. The first thing Jesus did upon entering was go to the Father and get the book into His hands. When? As soon as He ascended, probably right after telling Mary not to touch Him for He had not yet ascended.

 

[FredVB]

Every view I ever hear for this matter in eschatology is from interpretation with understanding what is current and not known previously, and without Bible passages had for support of any of them. I do use other Bible passages that would be support, which should not be dismissed.

I think that understanding Revelation starts with figuring out how it is meant to be read. And I don't know of many people that get that first step correct.

That does seem a problem. And with churchianity people learn things they believe without learning more directly from the Bible.

I also find that many people pull verses out of their context. In Revelation, context is extremely important. As an example, someone reads about the first seal, and the white horse and rider, and immediately declares it to be the Antichrist, completely ignoring the context of the first seal, which is the complete vision of the throne room in chapters 4 & 5. Chapter 5 shows Jesus entering the throne room where He had not been seen anywhere in chapter 4, and immediately sending the Holy Spirit down. The first thing Jesus did upon entering was go to the Father and get the book into His hands. When? As soon as He ascended, probably right after telling Mary not to touch Him for He had not yet ascended.

There are difficulties with any interpretations of that passage. But there are other things in the book of Revelation I would point to for showing this. Mystery Babylon is one of such. What is it representing? What I hear of that being answered are traditional interpretations, not with using Bible passages. I would show Bible passages, but it will not agree with any of those interpretations. See all of Revelation 18, it is characterized as what will collapse, and there is all the materialism and exploitation found in it, and God's people do not belong there, they must come out. Then see Isaiah 24:1-23. How is it showing something different and separate?

 

[dwb001]

That does seem a problem. And with churchianity people learn things they believe without learning more directly from the Bible.



There are difficulties with any interpretations of that passage. But there are other things in the book of Revelation I would point to for showing this. Mystery Babylon is one of such. What is it representing? What I hear of that being answered are traditional interpretations, not with using Bible passages. I would show Bible passages, but it will not agree with any of those interpretations. See all of Revelation 18, it is characterized as what will collapse, and there is all the materialism and exploitation found in it, and God's people do not belong there, they must come out. Then see Isaiah 24:1-23. How is it showing something different and separate?

So how do you read Revelation?

 

[FredVB]

So how do you read Revelation?

I don't leave out reading the rest of Revelation, that does help with explaining in places, and understand it has old testament references that also explain things. I depend on God's leading too.

 

[dwb001]

I don't leave out reading the rest of Revelation, that does help with explaining in places, and understand it has old testament references that also explain things. I depend on God's leading too.

Could you explain what you mean by Old Testament references?
Most people get that part confused (in my experience).

 

[FredVB]

Could you explain what you mean by Old Testament references?
Most people get that part confused (in my experience).

If they are confused, why should they think they can understand the book of Revelation better? They should have familiarity with the Bible, and it involves knowing about symbolic images and prophecies in the old testament of the Bible. So when something read in the book of Revelation is connected to a description in the old testament of the Bible, it would be recognized.

 

[dwb001]

If they are confused, why should they think they can understand the book of Revelation better?

Never said the people are confused but get the relationship confused. Different than being confused.

They should have familiarity with the Bible, and it involves knowing about symbolic images and prophecies in the old testament of the Bible. So when something read in the book of Revelation is connected to a description in the old testament of the Bible, it would be recognized.

Explain your use of the word connected please.
I don't want to ask a leading question unless you want me to. If you don't understand what I am asking... I will rephrase... but that may lead you down a different path than you would take naturally.
I just don't want to draw you into my conversation but I want you to maybe explain yourself so I can understand better.

 

[iamlamad]

That does seem a problem. And with churchianity people learn things they believe without learning more directly from the Bible.

There are difficulties with any interpretations of that passage. But there are other things in the book of Revelation I would point to for showing this. Mystery Babylon is one of such. What is it representing? What I hear of that being answered are traditional interpretations, not with using Bible passages. I would show Bible passages, but it will not agree with any of those interpretations. See all of Revelation 18, it is characterized as what will collapse, and there is all the materialism and exploitation found in it, and God's people do not belong there, they must come out. Then see Isaiah 24:1-23. How is it showing something different and separate?

I simply believe John. He told us Mystery Babylon is that great city. In Chapter 14 to told us the "great city" was where Jesus was crucified. That settles it for me.

I think, when the Antichrist Beast makes His home in Jerusalem, he will bring so many riches to the city as to make shippers rich also. Many people seem not to understand: he and the False prophet will deceive the ENTIRE WORLD from the city of Jerusalem. Only those whose names are written in heaven are excluded. This is what Chapter 18 is telling us. Just my thoughts.

 

[FredVB]

I simply believe John. He told us Mystery Babylon is that great city. In Chapter 14 to told us the "great city" was where Jesus was crucified. That settles it for me.

I think, when the Antichrist Beast makes His home in Jerusalem, he will bring so many riches to the city as to make shippers rich also. Many people seem not to understand: he and the False prophet will deceive the ENTIRE WORLD from the city of Jerusalem. Only those whose names are written in heaven are excluded. This is what Chapter 18 is telling us. Just my thoughts.

You can disregard what I show, that the same thing happening to Mystery Babylon is exactly what happens to all cities of the earth, and go with your thoughts, which is one of the traditions, among those that interpret Mystery Babylon as though it can be just one physical city without any others. But I am not thinking that is wise, with basis I see. I hope your and others' eyes will open enough, soon enough.

Never said the people are confused but get the relationship confused. Different than being confused.

Explain your use of the word connected please.
I don't want to ask a leading question unless you want me to. If you don't understand what I am asking... I will rephrase... but that may lead you down a different path than you would take naturally.
I just don't want to draw you into my conversation but I want you to maybe explain yourself so I can understand better.

Wording in passages in Revelation is corresponding to wording elsewhere. I just say corresponding rather than is, necessarily, when we have the original of the book of Revelation from Greek writing and the wording elsewhere from original writing in something else like Hebrew of Bible times. It is very helpful when what is said in the book of Revelation might remain unclear, with just people with different interpretations to hear for explaining it. The explanation for what is meant is often right in the same book, but sometimes it isn't seen while the correspondence to other writing in the Bible is still there supporting that. This will help those who become so familiar with the Bible, all the old testament and new testament of it.

 

[Douggg]

Never said the people are confused but get the relationship confused. Different than being confused.

Explain your use of the word connected please.
I don't want to ask a leading question unless you want me to. If you don't understand what I am asking... I will rephrase... but that may lead you down a different path than you would take naturally.
I just don't want to draw you into my conversation but I want you to maybe explain yourself so I can understand better.

I will give you an example of corresponding verses in the old testament (Tanach to the Jews, Judaism).... to Revelation....same event.

Ezekiel 39:17-20

17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.

18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.

19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.

20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.


Corresponding to...

Revelation 19:17-18

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

 

[Marilyn C]

do you think the book of revelation is written in order?
The book of revelation is confusing to me.

Hope this diagram helps.

 

[dwb001]

I will give you an example of corresponding verses in the old testament (Tanach to the Jews, Judaism).... to Revelation....same event.

Ezekiel 39:17-20

17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.

18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.

19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.

20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.


Corresponding to...

Revelation 19:17-18

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

Which version of those events do tou use to interpret the other?

 

[Douggg]

Which version of those events do tou use to interpret the other?

Revelation, because....

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Looking back to Ezekiel 39...

21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them. [Jesus returned to this earth, having just executed judgement on them who gathered together at Armageddon to make war on him]


22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

The house of Israel does not presently believe that Jesus is the LORD their God, correct ?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ezekiel 39 provides the timeline framework for the events of Revelation.

Gog/Magog. (verses 1-16)........ then the 7 years.(verse 9).............. then Armageddon (verses 17-20) and Jesus back on earth (verses 21-29, Jesus Himself speaking in the text.)

 

[dwb001]

Revelation, because....

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Looking back to Ezekiel 39...

21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them. [Jesus returned to this earth, having just executed judgement on them who gathered together at Armageddon to make war on him]


22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

The house of Israel does not presently believe that Jesus is the LORD their God, correct ?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ezekiel 39 provides the timeline framework for the events of Revelation.

Gog/Magog. (verses 1-16)........ then the 7 years.(verse 9).............. then Armageddon (verses 17-20) and Jesus back on earth (verses 21-29, Jesus Himself speaking in the text.)


View attachment 335943

Not bad.

 

[Douggg]

Not bad.

dwb001, go here...

An overview of the end of the age book (scroll) of Revelation

In Revelation 5, Jesus was worthy to take the end of the age book (scroll), and in Revelation 6, Jesus began removing the seals. This chart is an overview of the chapters pertaining to the end of the age. I patterned my chart after the chart that @Marilyn C made of her own, in her thread -...

www.christianforums.com

 

[dwb001]

dwb001, go here...

An overview of the end of the age book (scroll) of Revelation

In Revelation 5, Jesus was worthy to take the end of the age book (scroll), and in Revelation 6, Jesus began removing the seals. This chart is an overview of the chapters pertaining to the end of the age. I patterned my chart after the chart that @Marilyn C made of her own, in her thread -...

www.christianforums.com

What dis about?

 

[Douggg]

What dis about?

An overview, synopsis, of the chapters in Revelation that deal with the end of age.

 

[dwb001]

An overview, synopsis, of the chapters in Revelation that deal with the end of age.

Yep... but why would I need that?

 

[Douggg]

Yep... but why would I need that?

So you will no longer have to be a donkey.....

Well, you still may be Balaam's Donkey... but a more well informed, smarter, donkey.

 

[iamlamad]

You can disregard what I show, that the same thing happening to Mystery Babylon is exactly what happens to all cities of the earth, and go with your thoughts, which is one of the traditions, among those that interpret Mystery Babylon as though it can be just one physical city without any others. But I am not thinking that is wise, with basis I see. I hope your and others' eyes will open enough, soon enough.

I agree that all cities are destroyed in the earthquake at the 7th bowl. But the focus of Revelation is primarily Jerusalem and Israel. Nine chapters cover the 70th week which is for Daniel's people. God has long meant for Jerusalem to lead people TO Him, but when the devil gets involved, just the opposite will take place. The Beast and False prophet, from the city of Jerusalem, will lead the world AWAY from God.