Symbolism from scratch.. You know the first symbolism I would tell is the letters and the stories they tell, like you have been doing. Then in later chapters move to the stars, sun, moon, etc.. and maybe do it in the order than God has laid out in the beginning.. From there bring it all to a nice close in the prophets and their books like Revelation, Daniel, Ezekiel and Isaiah. Just a suggestion.This is where I have trouble. I want the reader to know that scripture will define the symbolism used in deciphering prophecy and 'dark sayings'. I want to tell them where to look and for what. I want to show that there are patterns and themes that also define prophetic symbolism and covenant truths. And I want to show how scriptural symbolism starts with the pictographic letter definitions of Ancient Hebrew.
Perhaps there are a few books here...
What better people to ask than those involved in making it happen.. The Third TempleWow, Tal.
A lot of info here..can't read it all right now. I was just wondering about the duties the priests oversaw. Were not many of theses carried out by temple-servants such as cleaning the vessels, preparing incense, and other things. Do you have any info on this? Also, what happened to these people when the 2nd temple was destroyed?
I ask, because in Ezra there were those who could not prove their ancestry that were removed from the priesthood. If a 3rd temple is raised (should be when), will theses people be linked by lineage to work in temple or is it just the priests. Sorry, not trying to derail your most interesting thread.
Temptinfates
Really? Great!Cause this needs to be put in a much more cohesive order. I would welcome the help. Are you any good at editing?? Obviously I have problems with it.
My plan is to ePublish, but I will not take money for any of this. I'm sure you understand. I just want to share.
Hey Yedida! Jump on in. No reason it can't be a collaborative effort. This is probably only a third or so of the material I want to add to this thread. My problem is that I see this stuff as so interconnected, I have such a problem deciding on a linear progression. There are so may circles within circles, it's kind of like an Escher drawing in my mind. He is so Awsome!
BTW, what did you think of the second part of THIS POST? Need some feedback. I know I didn't flesh it out very much.
Hi Temptinfates, or is it Temptin' Fates?Wow, Tal.
A lot of info here..can't read it all right now. I was just wondering about the duties the priests oversaw. Were not many of theses carried out by temple-servants such as cleaning the vessels, preparing incense, and other things. Do you have any info on this? Also, what happened to these people when the 2nd temple was destroyed?
I ask, because in Ezra there were those who could not prove their ancestry that were removed from the priesthood. If a 3rd temple is raised (should be when), will theses people be linked by lineage to work in temple or is it just the priests. Sorry, not trying to derail your most interesting thread.
Temptinfates
I should also remark that there were four classes of people that were included in the Temple service. These are not to be confused with the four types of people in scripture that will be covered later. The four classes of people that were included in the Temple service are the Priests, the Levites, the Nethinim (servants to the Levites) and the covenant children of Israel (worshippers and occasionally musicians). And since the Nethinim are unfamiliar to most of the readers I will include the following: (taken from The Temple - Its Ministry and Services (as they were at the time of Christ)by Alfred Edersheim )
In point of fact, while no less than 4,289 priests had returned from Babylon, the number of Levites was under 400 (Ezra 2:40-42; Neh 7:43-45), of whom only 74 were ‘priests’ assistants.’ To this the next immigration, under Ezra, added only 38, and that though the Levites had been specially searched for (Ezra 8:15, 18, 19). According to tradition, Ezra punished them by depriving them of their tithes. The gap in their number was filled up by 220 Nethinim (Ezra 8:20), literally, ‘given ones,’ probably originally strangers and captives, 32 as in all likelihood the Gibeonites had been the first ‘Nethinim’ (Josh 9:21, 23, 27).
Though the Nethinim, like the Levites and priests, were freed from all taxation (Ezra 7:24), and perhaps also from military service (Jos. Anti. iii. 12; iv. 4, 3.), the Rabbinists held them in the lowest repute—beneath a bastard, though above a proselyte—forbade their intermarrying with Israelites, and declared them incapable of proper membership in the congregation.
In the Revelation there are also four classes of people in the heavenly Temple. There is the High Priest that is Y'shua, the Four Beasts representing the original four courses of the Levites, the twenty-four Elders that represent the saints (and include the 144,000) both Jew and Gentile, and the four horsemen that represent the Nethinim (doing the bidding of the Four Beasts – the four division of Levites).
Take your time. I am. This isn't going to happen overnight. Great news about the new digs! May you be blessed and prosper in them!I think I'm one study back from that one, not sure, but I do know that I'm not yet there. And I've been busy elsewhere, as well as house-packing.
Wow, thanks Lulav! It looks great!I need to get back to this thread, but can't right now. Just as a place holder, I'd like to add a link to this book to become more familiar with John, who is the subject of priest here and why he was chosen to write the Revelation.
Introduction to the Johannine writings.
It's a Seminary book, written in the 1800's but contains a lot of interesting research and postulation that may be useful for this study.
It is more historical than exegetical so it might be better to find out if the premiss in the OP pans out, I think it has a great chance.
Thank you brother,As I said earlier, it's an excellent topic for discussion. I've enjoyed reading it.
And it goes without saying that the better translation would be congregations rather than churches...Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
...then goes on to say this:Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
While each of the congregations that had been rebuked could be characterized by one of these condition, Laodicea seemed to personify them all. Its name means "Just People" or "justice of the people", but the Lord does not consider them so just. When we rely on our own judgment and justice we fall well short of the glory of the Father. Laodicea means "Just People; justice of the people". When we attempt to clothe ourselves in our own righteousness we are naked before the Lord.Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Strong's G1131 γυμνός gumnos goom-nos' Of uncertain affinity; nude (absolutely or relatively, literally or figuratively): - naked.
He is the faithful witness that sees all.
They had borne and labored and done all these "works" to make themselves desirable but lost the first love. They had works without faith. Basically they belonged to a club that did good things. Yeshua wasn't "in it". And He, "that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks" was prepared to remove their candlestick. They were no longer "desirable" and so became wretched.Strong's G5005 ταλαίπωρος talaipōros tal-ah'ee-po-ros From the base of G5007 and a derivative of the base of G3984; enduring trial, that is, miserable: - wretched.
And we know from His word that those who elevate themselves will be brought low. In this case, by the sword that proceeds from His mouth.Strong's G1652 ἐλεεινός eleeinos el-eh-i-nos' From G1656; pitiable: - miserable.
This definition seems more indicative of a lack of sacrifice in this circumstance. Indeed, a willingness to let the status quo continue. Here is what He said:Strong's G4434 πτωχός ptōchos pto-khos' From πτώσσω ptōssō (to crouch; akin to G4422 and the alternate of G4098); a beggar (as cringing), that is, pauper (strictly denoting absolute or public mendicancy, although also used in a qualified or relative sense; whereas G3993 properly means only straitened circumstances in private), literally (often as noun) or figuratively (distressed): - beggar (-ly), poor.
Wow!Rev 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.Rev 2:24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
Faith without works is... dead. It seems they were so secure in their "salvation" that they forgot His commandments. The next word on the list is blind.Rev 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
He tells them to be watchful. He says, "If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee."Strong's G5185 τυφλός tuphlos toof-los' From G5187; opaque (as if smoky), that is, (by analogy) blind (physically or mentally): - blind.
It was the custom of the priest in charge to come around and gently knock at the door of th inner chambers. All the priest were bare footed because they were on holy ground. And the Fall Feasts in the mountains of Jerusalem found the Temple to be cool, especially at night. It was not uncommon for the priests that were not required on the watch to gather in front of the fireplaces in these inner chambers. And some would fall asleep. So the gentle knock at the door was easy to miss unless there was someone paying attention. As a special reward and to honor those that stayed alert over their brethren, the priest in charge would bring some bread to share with those who answered his call. Sound familiar?Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
If a priest was found sleeping at his post in the Temple, there was two punishments that might occur. He might be "beaten with many stripes" or the more shameful, he might awaken to find his clothes on fire! And the only way to stop the burning was to strip naked. Both of these punishments usually happened in the presence of the Captain of the Watch and the other Temple guards. On Yom Kuppur, that would have been the High Priest.Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
I don't think I can adequately express how disappointing it is that this thread has died on the vine for lack of interest.
I don't think I can adequately express how disappointing it is that this thread has died on the vine for lack of interest.
Well so far, the end is just shy of the middle, so yeah. We haven't even gotten past the message to the congregations yet.I just now noticed it. It's a good read, but a few little boo boo's. No big deal. Not sure what to say. I skipped part of the middle. Did I miss anything?
Hello again,
There is a shared theme of death and life in both of these Churches, Smyrna and Philadelphia. In Smyrna He talks of being dead and then alive. In Philadelphia He speaks of a door that no man can open or shut. To me this indicates the door between death and life, between the physical and the spiritual. This door that He was able to go through at the end of His earthly ministry as a Prophet, He has now made a way for His children to pass through. That door is the door to the Heavenly Temple.
There is much to comment on here. I think that I could go on for hours and indeed I have. But I am inviting everyone to comment on the symbolism that you see in these instructions to the Churches, and for that matter, the entire relationship between the Day of Atonement morning service and the symbolism found in the first five chapters of the Book of Revelation. A fresh set of eyes are definitely in order.
Blessings,
Well so far, the end is just shy of the middle, so yeah. We haven't even gotten past the message to the congregations yet.
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