Originally Posted by yononyavo
In the course of this research I found that the geographic position of six of the seven churches of Rev. are nearly identical with the six visible stars of the Pleiades. ...and they are located on the "shoulder" of the Taurus mountains of Turkey in the same position as they appear in the constellation of Taurus. The connection has also been made between the two because of the ref. in Amos 5 of the Pleiades (Kimah) as the seven stars, and the seven stars in Rev. as the messengers of the seven churches.
The Jewish sages, in some accounts believe that the change will be in the form of a Star of David. They are also the only ones who speak of the change associated with the flood as being TWO missing stars rather than one, as all the others. This is also interesting, in that now under a powerful telescope the very faint star named Estrope, which is generally not visible except under perfect conditions, is found to be a double star.
In recent centuries, Egyptologists have concluded that the pyramids may be much older than we have first suspected and MAY HAVE BEEN EXISTENT AT THE TIME OF THE FLOOD OF NOACH. Here is where it gets interesting because the Constellation KIMAH is associated directly with the Flood of Noach in Talmudic and Midrashic literature! So we can begin to see why God quizzed Job with questions about the KIMAH and Orion contextually related to a "flood of waters" in verse 34: Can you lift up your voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover you?
The Torah sages wrote that God "took two stars away from KIMAH and brought the flood!"
This is alluded to in at least four places in Talmud Rosh HaShana, 11b and Talmud Baba M'tzia, 106b. It is also found in two other rabbinic writings: Ta'anith I bottom of 64a; and B'midbar Rabbah 10. The word KIMAH itself is found in more than a dozen places in the Jerusalem Talmud, 10 places in the Babylonian Talmud, 16 places in Rashis commentary to the Babylonian Talmud and 16 places in the Tosefta to the Babylonian Talmud. Every Orthodox rabbi and most non-Orthodox rabbis should be well familiar with this constellation and its relationship to the flood of Noah.
Here are a few of the most specific references: Talmud Rosh Hashana 11b: It has been taught: In the sixth hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month.
- R. Joshua said: That day was the seventeenth day of Iyar, when the constellation of KIMAH sets at daybreak and the fountains begin to dry up, and because they [mankind] perverted their ways, the Holy One, blessed be He, changed for them the work of creation and made the constellation of KIMAH rise at daybreak and took two stars from the KIMAH and brought a flood on the world.
- R. Eliezer said: That day was the seventeenth of Heshvan, a day on which the constellation of KIMAH rises at daybreak, and [the season] when the fountains begin to fill. FOOTNOTE TO THE TALMUD: There seems to be some confusion in the text here. To make it astronomically correct we should read (with the Seder Olam) in the dictum of R. Joshua, When KIMAH rises at daybreak, and in the dictum of R. Eliezer, sets at daybreak.
In the month of Adar, corresponding to mid-February to March, the KIMAH appears to be overhead at the time the peasant finishes his work, viz., about four in the afternoon. Thus R. Papa states that seed time is governed by Adar (and KIMAH).
Elsewhere in Talmudic literature, knowledge is compared to the KIMAH, which causes the ripening of fruits and gives them taste. Since taste is a function of smell (try holding your nose when something tastes bad ... it works for my son) and the attribute by which the Talmud states the Torah devout will recognize the Messiah is by his smell; there is an ancient opinion that when the time of the Messiah nears, the people will look for a sign in the constellation KIMAH. Breshet Rabbah 10.
Contextually the constellation may be related to the exiled House of Joseph, because it is alternatively called, Taurus or the constellation of the ox or bull. This is alluded to in B'reshet (Genesis) 49:5-6 (where the rabbinim interpret the "ox" who is maimed by Simeon and Levi as Joseph); and again in the blessing of Moses on the House of Joseph, found in D'varim (Deutoronomy) 33:13-17, where Joseph is called by Moses, "the firstling of Hashem's bullock," who has the horns of the "re'eym." (verse 17). The constellation itself with its box-like head and two horns, reminds one of the head of a bullock.
Deuteronomy 33:17 goes on to state that with the horns of the re'eym, HASHEM will "gore" nations together to the ends of the Land. And these nations are the myriads of Ephraim and the thousands of Manasseh -- the House of Joseph. Moses Ben-Maimon also known as Maimomides and the Rambam, states of this verse: "the two horns represent the two branches of Joseph, Ephraim and Manasseh."
In Psalm 22:22, Hashem answers "from the horns of the Re'eym." The next verse, verse 23 states: "I will proclaim Your Name to my brethren." The Jewish sage Radak wrote that this meant when HASHEM raised the horn of the re'eym, that those who knew Hashem should tell what they know to their brothers, "the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel who had been exiled to Chalach and Chabur."
The Talmud, Tosefta and other rabbinic writings present this record of the KIMAH as the only constellation which has undergone any observable change since Creation. Consequently, if there were to be a sign in the Heavens that would be accepted by the rabbinim or leaders of Judah today, especially as it pertains to validating the Return of the House of Joseph, it might be an occurrence in KIMAH that would rectify the change recorded in the earlier rabbinic writings and alluded to in Scripture
The second mention of the KIMAH in Scripture is found in Amos 5:8.
Oseh KIMAH uchsil ve hofeych laboker tzalmavet veyom lailah hechshich Literally, "He who made the KIMAH and CHESIL (Orion) and turns darkness into morning and day He darkens as night."
This alludes to the fact that the KIMAH traverses the pre-dawn sky "turning darkness into morning" ON THE SAME PLANE AS THE SUN, whose course through the sky turns day into night.
Rabbinic exegesis of 5:8 "turning day to night and night to day," contains a profound spiritual truth. understanding will be turned upside down. Those who think they understand will be shown that they do not. And those, whose understanding has been questioned or put down by the former, will be exalted. More understanding will be added to them. But we can't lose sight of the fact that this reversal of understanding literally relates to a change in the heavens in the context of the Return of the House of Joseph. The natural conclusion to draw is that the change in KIMAH indicates a sign in the heavens that may SIGNAL the Return or some related event.
And then there is the mystery that has puzzled humanity as long as mankind has gazed at the stars above. The mystery is why the KIMAH is called the Constellation of Seven Sisters, when only six stars are visible with the naked eye? Is it possible that one of the stars was a doubled star? Or, was it possible that before the flood, the constellation's six stars formed a seventh, the Cocav David or Star of David? If this Cocav David will again appear in the pre-dawn sky, what does it mean?
The context in which Hashem has couched this "mystery of the Seven Sisters" is a lamentation over the House of Israel. Only such a heavenly sign may convince the House of Judah to recognize that Hashems plan to restore Tzion (Zion) includes the non-Jewish House of Joseph
This may be conjecture, but let us propose that the secret of the Seventh Sister IS the rising again of the degel Tzion (a banner) to gather, recall and return the House of Israel.
Isa 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign (Strong's def.=flag or banner) of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
Isa 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign (flag) for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
The modern Israeli flag, under which the Jewish population in the modern Jewish state has thus far reunited is such a banner. But the rabbinim are looking for such IN THE HEAVENLIES, as indicated by the Rambam, Radak and other sages quoted above.
In the Last Days, followers of Y'shua also are told to look into the Heavens for specific signs. This raises the question of whether the sign the rabbinim expect is the same sign that Y'shua promised would be revealed to his followers and which would validate his mission as the shaliah (one sent) to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.
Earlier we mentioned that the KIMAH in Talmudic literature "causes the ripening of fruit." Ephraim in Hebrew means "double-fruitful." The blessings of fruitfulness associated with Joseph also are evident in Genesis 49 and again in Deuteronomy 33.
But in Genesis 48:19, Ephraim is also called the "melo ha-goyim." This term is translated "multitude of nations" but its literal meaning is "the fullness of the goyim or Gentiles." The shaliah Paul in Romans 11 refers to this "fullness of the Gentiles" as triggering the "return or rescue" (Gr.. sothesetai) of ALL of (the House of) Israel.
Here we submit that Y'shua could well be referring to the Assimilation of Israel among the Gentile church.
Matthew 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the ASTRAPE cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the PAROUSIA of the Son of man be.
ASTRAPE - Strongs 796 = Lightning or bright shining (Strongs), = the gleam of a lamp (Thayers) = a flash such as lightning (Liddell & Scott), illumination of the sky accompanying cosmic phenomenon; also a derivative form ASTRO pertains to any star or constellation (Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich)
PAROUSIA - Strongs 3952 presence, arrival, advent. (Thayers)
ASTRAPE is not necessarily a bolt of lightning, which strikes at random and does not necessarily light the sky from east to west. Rather this presence, arrival or advent, Y'shua describes is likened to a cosmic phenomenon that may directly refer to a specific star or constellation.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
The analogy to the sign of the coming of the Son of Man and the flood of Noach is again striking, especially because the change in the constellation Kimah is tied to the flood and by implication, this eschatological sign.
all I seem to be doing is stirring up sawdust in the attic trying to remember...
