Revelation About the Book of James

[Bible Highlighter]

@DM25

George Sodini was a huge OSAS proponent and yet he believed he would be saved despite his murdering a bunch of people and the taking of his own life.

On August 4th, 2009, 48 year old George Sodini shot 9 people in a Pittsburg Pennsylvania health club.

George Sodini, mass murderer and professed Christian Eternal Securist wrote;

“Maybe soon, I will see God and Jesus. At least that is what I was told. Eternal life does NOT depend on works. If it did, we will all be in hell. Christ paid for EVERY sin, so how can I or you be judged BY GOD for a sin when the penalty was ALREADY paid. People judge but that does not matter. I was reading the Bible and The Integrity of God beginning yesterday, because soon I will see them.”

Is this the kind of belief that you hold to? Do you believe that George Sodini was saved?

Source:
George Sodini

 

[Bible Highlighter]

1 John 3:7 says,
"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous."

1 John 3:8 says,
"He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."

 

[DM25]

1 John 3:7 says,
"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous."

1 John 3:8 says,
"He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."

Stop quoting 1 John which is not a book on salvation, but a book on how to have joy in your walk.

 

[DM25]

@DM25

George Sodini was a huge OSAS proponent and yet he believed he would be saved despite his murdering a bunch of people and the taking of his own life.

On August 4th, 2009, 48 year old George Sodini shot 9 people in a Pittsburg Pennsylvania health club.

George Sodini, mass murderer and professed Christian Eternal Securist wrote;

“Maybe soon, I will see God and Jesus. At least that is what I was told. Eternal life does NOT depend on works. If it did, we will all be in hell. Christ paid for EVERY sin, so how can I or you be judged BY GOD for a sin when the penalty was ALREADY paid. People judge but that does not matter. I was reading the Bible and The Integrity of God beginning yesterday, because soon I will see them.”

Is this the kind of belief that you hold to? Do you believe that George Sodini was saved?

Source:
George Sodini

If you don't believe in OSAS you aren't saved, you don't trust God. I believe in the gospel and what the bible tells me. You are focused on works and sin and not what the bible says. You give me a random story from a questionable source while I don't even know the man or knowing if he believed in the gospel or not. Anyone who makes an article like that, I think is probably working for the devil so they probably lied anyway. If he did do that then he is foolish and God took his life and will be the lowest in the kingdom of heaven, and lose out all rewards... But I don't even know if what you are saying is true and don't know the person. So quit throwing out straw man arguments, it's pure stupidity like the pharisees "Oh shall we sin more so grace may abound"? What a stupid question. Just like the question "Shall we go shoot a bunch of people because we are saved"? It's clear where your mind is at... Sin and man's works, not Jesus and his finished work and grace for salvation. But I'm gonna stick to the word of God and what HE says, not what you say. And he says we are saved by grace through faith alone and sealed until the day of redemption where you can't lose your salvation and this is truth. If you don't believe that, you aren't saved. So I urge you to change your mind.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Stop quoting 1 John which is not a book on salvation, but a book on how to have joy in your walk.

It is a book on salvation. 1 John 3:15 says, "Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."

I don't know how you read the Bible, but when I read the words "eternal life" I take that as a reference to salvation.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If you don't believe in OSAS you aren't saved, you don't trust God.

It is against forum rules to tell others that they are not saved, etc.
We are supposed to address the content of the belief with Scripture and not the poster.

I believe in the gospel and what the bible tells me. You are focused on works and sin and not what the bible says. You give me a random story from a questionable source while I don't even know the man or knowing if he believed in the gospel or not. Anyone who makes an article like that, I think is probably working for the devil so they probably lied anyway. If he did do that then he is foolish and God took his life and will be the lowest in the kingdom of heaven, and lose out all rewards... But I don't even know if what you are saying is true and don't know the person. So quit throwing out straw man arguments, it's pure stupidity like the pharisees "Oh shall we sin more so grace may abound"? What a stupid question. Just like the question "Shall we go shoot a bunch of people because we are saved"? It's clear where your mind is at... Sin and man's works, not Jesus and his finished work and grace for salvation. But I'm gonna stick to the word of God and what HE says, not what you say. And he says we are saved by grace through faith alone and sealed until the day of redemption where you can't lose your salvation and this is truth. If you don't believe that, you aren't saved. So I urge you to change your mind.

George Sodini is not the only one. There are many who have committed suicide thinking they would be saved as a result of OSAS. Even you admit that if George Sodini was a real person (and his testimony was true), he simply would lose rewards and still be in God's kingdom. If this is what you truly believe, there is no need to further discuss the Scriptures with you at this point if you believe this way. A person should know that God cannot condone grievous sin or serious sin in a believer's life. God's grace doesn't work like that (See Titus 2:11-12). My trying to reason with you on the concept of basic morality is not something I can teach you (Only God can do that).

 

[DM25]

It is a book on salvation. 1 John 3:15 says, "Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."

I don't know how you read the Bible, but when I read the words "eternal life" I take that as a reference to salvation.

No, it is not a book on salvation. It is addressing already saved people on how to live to have joy in their walk. Read it in context and the start of the book. There are verses like you quoted, pertaining to our spirit which cannot sin. It is talking about the sin being wrong, as a rebuke, but also reinforcing our identity in Christ... Anyone who is in Christ is NO LONGER seen as a sinner / murderer in the eyes of God, regardless what they do and despite still sinning in the flesh. Our spirit can't sin, our flesh still can. The book is basically saying because you are no longer these things, don't do them anymore. Not to get saved, but because you are already saved, and to have joy in their walk.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@DM25

I have a rule that I strive not to break. I strive not to talk with anyone who does not understand the concept of basic morality in light of God's good kingdom. If you do not see it as wrong that a person can commit grievous sins like murder, and suicide and they can be rewarded with God's good kingdom, I cannot help you to see what the Bible says.

In any event, I am hoping but only good things upon you in Jesus Christ.

 

[DM25]

It is against forum rules to tell others that they are not saved, etc.
We are supposed to address the content of the belief with Scripture and not the poster.



George Sodini is not the only one. There are many who have committed suicide thinking they would be saved as a result of OSAS. Even you admit that if George Sodini was a real person (and his testimony was true), he simply would lose rewards and still be in God's kingdom. If this is what you truly believe, there is no need to further discuss the Scriptures with you at this point if you believe this way. A person should know that God cannot condone grievous sin or serious sin in a believer's life. God's grace doesn't work like that (See Titus 2:11-12). My trying to reason with you on the concept of basic morality is not something I can teach you (Only God can do that).

I didn't say YOU aren't saved I said anyone who doesn't believe in OSAS isn't saved.

Yes he can forgive it. Suicide is not something anyone should do, but he forgave ALL PAST, PRESENT, AND FUTURE SINS. That's what scripture says, but you obviously don't believe the bible, you believe in works-based salvation which goes against the gospel. Murder is included as a sin that is forgive. Saul killed all believers and he was forgiven. There was someone in the bible who also did horrible sins after getting saved and he was forgiven. Your feelings don't supersede God's truth, but nice try.

GOD DOES NOT CONDONE SIN. THERE ARE EARTHLY CONSEQUENCES FOR SIN LIKE EARLY DEATH AND DISEASE AND LOSS OF REWARDS IN HEAVEN. BUT HE FORGIVES SIN AND YOU ARE SAVED BY FAITH ALONE, NOT YOUR WORKS OR HOW MUCH OR HOW LITTLE YOU SIN. THIS IS TRUTH FROM THE BIBLE BUT YOU TWIST MY WORDS AND NOT SEEM TO UNDERSTAND THE BASIC GOSPEL MESSAGE.

 

[DM25]

@DM25

I have a rule that I strive not to break. I strive not to talk with anyone who does not understand the concept of basic morality in light of God's good kingdom. If you do not see it as wrong that a person can commit grievous sins like murder, and suicide and they can be rewarded with God's good kingdom, I cannot help you to see what the Bible says.

In any event, I am hoping but only good things upon you in Jesus Christ.

If someone does horrible sins after getting saved they won't be rewarded in heaven, they will be the lowest in the kingdom. That's what scripture says, they are still saved. FYI I don't know ANYONE who believes in the real gospel OSAS who sins in bad ways, everyone I know are amazing God loving people... But everyone I know in Lordship Salvation has always had horrible secret sins and lives a double life. You love twisting people's words and saying someone thinks it's ok to murder and to sin. When I never said it's ok and God hates that, but the only unforgivable sin is not believing in the gospel because he forgives ALL sins when you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. But nice try, again.

 

[Calminian]

....This is what I though originally. But after reading it, it didn't make sense to me. It did not specifically say someone is justified by man..........

No, not by man. You never understood the truth on this. James was speaking of justified in the sense of justifying your claim to faith.

James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?​

This is the question James is responding to. If someone claims to have faith.... James is not speaking of justification of sins before God, but justification of a claim before men. The word justification has some range and can be used in difference senses (Romans 3:4 for instance).

Paul, lends support to this subtly when he says,

Rom. 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.​

Abraham was a man of faith, and also a man of obedience. He was vindicated (justified) before men as a believer in God, but that is not was justified him before God.

The constant message we get from Paul and James is that true faith has consequences. Good works will follow, and if they don't, it's possible the faith isn't real.

 

[DM25]

The constant message we get from Paul and James is that true faith has consequences. Good works will follow, and if they don't, it's possible the faith isn't real.

That's the circular theology. Just rewording works-based salvation.

 

[Calminian]

That's the circular theology. Just rewording works-based salvation.

Your understanding of is was, yes. But you had it wrong. You didn't quite catch the true meaning and ended up falling for some heresy to reconcile James' teachings.

Faith that is real, produces fruit. That's the part you struggle with. Those are the works that show men your faith is real. This is not about salvation. This is about vindicating ones claim of salvation. Salvation, itself, is from God alone through faith alone. God doesn't need proof. He knows true faith and reckons it as righteousness.

 

[DM25]

Your understanding of is was, yes. But you had it wrong. You didn't quite catch the true meaning and ended up falling for some heresy to reconcile James' teachings.

Faith that is real, produces fruit. That's the part you struggle with. Those are the works that show men your faith is real. This is not about salvation. This is about vindicating ones claim of salvation. Salvation, itself, is from God alone through faith alone. God doesn't need proof. He knows true faith and reckons it as righteousness.

No my works don't justify me at all... It's not about my works, it's about Jesus' finished work. And quit calling my interpretation of the book of James "heresy". It's comical you think that, but it's biblical truth, just read it again and pray about it if you don't believe me.

 

[Calminian]

If someone does horrible sins after getting saved they won't be rewarded in heaven, they will be the lowest in the kingdom. That's what scripture says, they are still saved. FYI I don't know ANYONE who believes in the real gospel OSAS who sins in bad ways, everyone I know are amazing God loving people... But everyone I know in Lordship Salvation has always had horrible secret sins and lives a double life. You love twisting people's words and saying someone thinks it's ok to murder and to sin. When I never said it's ok and God hates that, but the only unforgivable sin is not believing in the gospel because he forgives ALL sins when you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. But nice try, again.

While this is true in essence, James and Paul both warned that sin in the life of a professing Christian can also be evidence he is not truly a Christian with true faith. He warned that we can have a false faith that does not produce anything. That's why Paul said,

2Cor. 13:5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.​

That's why James questioned, Can that faith, a faith with no works, save him? (2:14)

This is a message written to the Church filled with both wheats and tares. Some had a false faith, evident by their lack of works. It's the same today.

 

[W2L]

There are different ways to handle the book of James.

You can just take it as salvation = faith + works, which is the stand of Roman Catholic, and many other denominations.

You can take it as salvation = faith only, but if you have no works after you are saved, you may lose your salvation, which is a more subtle way than the way above.

You can take it as Paul is saying justification before God, which is faith only. But James is talking about justification before Man, which requires work.

You can take a pure dispensationalist view, as you said, James being placed in the latter NT books even though it was written before Acts 15 event, James is meant for those who will be justified after the grace dispensation is over, the tribulation period, where you need faith and works once again.

Isnt it likely that James is describing fruit of the Spirit? Those are Gods works arent they?

 

[Calminian]

No my works don't justify me at all... It's not about my works, it's about Jesus' finished work. And quit calling my interpretation of the book of James "heresy". It's comical you think that, but it's biblical truth, just read it again and pray about it if you don't believe me.

It is heresy, because you're espousing that some will be saved by works, some time in the future. This is utter nonsense. But it stems from your current false view of easybelievism faith, the idea that a faith without works should never be questioned. The errors abound.

 

[DM25]

It is heresy, because you're espousing that some will be saved by works, some time in the future. This is utter nonsense. But it stems from your current false view of easybelievism faith, the idea that a faith without works should never be questioned. The errors abound.

So avoiding the mark of the beast isn't salvation by works? Choosing not to bow down to the anti-Christ system isn't salvation by works? Do you hear yourself? All throughout scripture it shows during tribulation and the end times salvation will indeed by by works. But the church won't be here.

Oh nice mocking of the gospel. If it's so easy then why can't 90% of people on this website do it? Just shows how narrow the way is... Everyone wants to make it about their works. Nothing easy about humbling yourself and believing 100% it's all Jesus alone for your salvation. God doesn't make it difficult. All he asks for faith, But instead, you mock his gospel as easy believism. When it's the very gospel of salvation that brings life and hope in Christ, very sad.

 

[W2L]

You cant save yourself, agreed? If works save us then they must be Gods works, i assume.

 

[Calminian]

So avoiding the mark of the beast isn't salvation by works? Choosing not to bow down to the anti-Christ system isn't salvation by works? Do you hear yourself? All throughout scripture it shows during tribulation and the end times salvation will indeed by by works. But the church won't be here.

Taking the mark the does appear to be an unpardonable sin at that time. It could be evidence of a hardened heart that rejects the gospel to the point of blasphemy, meaning only true Christians will be able to resist. They rest, at that time, will have lost their window of opportunity.

This is compatible with many Scriptures that warn that there will not always be time to accept Jesus. There will be a time when it's too late. Heb. 4 gives good metaphors for this.

But to leap from that and say tribulation survivors must earn their way into God's favor, is works salvation and a false gospel. It is not true now, and never will be.

Oh nice mocking of the gospel. If it's so easy then why can't 90% of people on this website do it? Just shows how narrow the way is... ...

I have no idea what you're talking about here. Again, I think you've misunderstood what people are telling you. Bearing fruit from faith does not mean you become perfect nor earn anything with those works. Works never earn anything regarding salvation.

And I would say your 90% is off. 100% can't do perfect works.

Something is off. You're missing what I and others are trying to explain to you, and getting defensive. The only one promoting a works salvation (albeit in the future) is you. Simply saying that faith produces some fruit is not the same as saying that fruit saves us. Works merely display your belief to others.

In your future view, works are the cause of salvation. In the historic Christian view, faith is the cause of salvation (for all time). Faith is also the cause of works, which, in turn, cause a good testimony (but never cause salvation).