Revelation About the Book of James

[DM25]

Yikes! This is heresy.

Lol. Thanks for the laugh today.

So the term "last days" in the book of James is a mistake in your eyes? Addressing 12 tribes of Israel specifically is a translation error to you? It is clear as day who it is addressed to and when. But keeping throwing the word heresy around for people who have different interpretations than you on a book NOT related to salvation or the gospel... It made me laugh, truly.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@mark kennedy

I want you to prove that your belief works. Create a list of grievous sins that the New Testament condemns (Note: This would not be the Old Testament commands, only the commands in the New Testament). Okay, so if you were to create this list, I would like for you to do a survey with your fellow Christians who believe as you do. If they report back to you that they are not abiding in these grievous sins with the thinking they are saved, then your belief is true and it is the truth.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Lol. Thanks for the laugh today.

So the term "last days" in the book of James is a mistake in your eyes? Addressing 12 tribes of Israel specifically is a translation error to you? It is clear as day who it is addressed to and when. But keeping throwing the word heresy around for people who have different interpretations than you on a book NOT related to salvation or the gospel... It made me laugh, truly.

Paul says there is no Jew or Gentile in Christ.
Also, the words "last days" is not in reference to believers in the last days.
James was referring to the Jewish believers who accepted Jesus during his life time.
After all, he was writing to them.
James 5:3 is talking about the condemnation of judgment of rich men.

 

[DM25]

@mark kennedy

Also, I do not care how holy you think people are forced to be by a spiritual regeneration. If they are told that they can sin and still be saved on some level because they are saved alone by having a belief in Jesus Christ, then they are going to minimize sin on some level and justify some kind of grievous sin. For if there was no law restricting the speed limit on highways, then more people would speed and get into accidents. Not everyone is going to be sensible or respectful with the law. It is the punishment of the Law that keep people in line. But you disagree with that line of thinking, though.

Nope not at all. The less you think about sin, the less you do it. Like a child who doesn't pay attention to candy on the table but their mother tells them not to do it, as soon as they are told not to do it, it is more tempting... Which is why I saw so many works-based and Lordship Salvationists caught in horrible sin and living a double life. They say they have no sin on the outside but they have so much secret sin. Because they don't believe in the gospel and focus on sin and not Jesus.... It's pretty sad really. But that's why I am constantly trying to reinforce the gospel message on here, some people may listen, some may not. But believe me, you don't sin more when you are not focused on sin and know you are save by grace ALONE not how little you sin and your focus is on Jesus.... You don't even wanna sin and that's not even on your mind. When you are sin conscious you will get destroyed.

 

[DM25]

Also, the words "last days" is not in reference to believers in the last days.
James was referring to the Jewish believers who accepted Jesus during his life time.

Jewish believers during his life time means "last days" to you? Please explain.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Nope not at all. The less you think about sin, the less you do it. Like a child who doesn't pay attention to candy on the table but their mother tells them not to do it, as soon as they are told not to do it, it is more tempting... Which is why I saw so many works-based and Lordship Salvationists caught in horrible sin and living a double life. They say they have no sin on the outside but they have so much secret sin. Because they don't believe in the gospel and focus on sin and not Jesus.... It's pretty sad really. But that's why I am constantly trying to reinforce the gospel message on here, some people may listen, some may not. But believe me, you don't sin more when you are not focused on sin and know you are save by grace ALONE not how little you sin and your focus is on Jesus.... You don't even wanna sin and that's not even on your mind. When you are sin conscious you will get destroyed.

Not true. You have to first learn and study God's commands in the New Testament so as to apply them to your life. You don't just automatically know them all. There are 600 plus general NT commands to my count so far, and I am in Revelation. This does not include commands to specific individuals, either (like women, children, etc.).

In other words, it is not possible for you to obey all of these commands without knowing about them. It is the same with traffic laws. A person can break the traffic laws without being aware of them.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jewish believers during his life time means "last days" to you? Please explain.

James 5:3 is talking about rich men being judged in the last days.
It is not referring to your odd view here.

 

[Calminian]

Lol. Thanks for the laugh today......

No laughing matter. I did respond strongly, but I do believe works is a false gospel. But I noticed you didn't reply to my actual post. You merely tried to changed the subject. Does that mean you had no answer for the short case I made?

 

[DM25]

Paul says there is no Jew or Gentile in Christ.

In Christ there isn't, spiritually speaking... There is still the physical nation of Israel and Gentiles. Just like it says there is no male or female in Christ... Not spiritually, physically there still is.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The moment a person says that works of any kind do not save, they are contradicting themselves. For they have to circle back and say that good works must be included at some point otherwise they are turning God's grace into a license for immorality or a sin and still be saved gospel. The grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). That is what grace teaches us.

Saying that works of faith is not a part of the salvation process after we are saved by God's grace is kind of like a dog that chases his own tail.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

In Christ there isn't, spiritually speaking... There is still the physical nation of Israel and Gentiles. Just like it says there is no male or female in Christ... Not spiritually, physically there still is.

I agree, but Paul never gave a teaching (or way of salvation) to the Gentile believers that was different for the Jewish believers in Christ.

 

[Calminian]

In Christ there isn't, spiritually speaking... There is still the physical nation of Israel and Gentiles. Just like it says there is no male or female in Christ... Not spiritually, physically there still is.

Yes, that is correct (I'm definitely a prophecy literalist). And Israel has experienced a partial hardening due to their belief they can work for their salvation.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes, that is correct. And Israel has experienced a partial hardening due to their belief they can work for their salvation.

When we say that they believed that they could work for their salvation it was "Works Alone Salvationism" based on the Torah Law that is a covenant that is no longer binding anymore (without God's grace, i.e. Jesus Christ). Nobody was ever saved by "Works Alone." Men were always saved by God's grace through faith as a part of initial salvation and as the foundation of their faith. Works of faith is the necessary next step or stage in the salvation process and it flows out of having faith in God's grace (Jesus Christ and what He has done for us with His death and resurrection).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Calminian:

There is a difference between Law Alone-Salvationism (without God's grace) vs. Being saved by God's Grace through Faith + Works of Faith.

There is a difference between the 613 laws given to Moses (in the Old Testament), vs. the 600 plus commands given to us us by Jesus Christ and His followers (in the New Testament).

 

[DM25]

You can just take it as salvation = faith + works, which is the stand of Roman Catholic, and many other denominations.

This would be false teaching, because it connects works to salvation.

You can take it as salvation = faith only, but if you have no works after you are saved, you may lose your salvation, which is a more subtle way than the way above.

Also false teaching, applying works to salvation and the ability to lose your salvation.

You can take it as Paul is saying justification before God, which is faith only. But James is talking about justification before Man, which requires work.

This is what I though originally. But after reading it, it didn't make sense to me. It did not specifically say someone is justified by man, it is only an assumption. And the most confusing verse of all "Can his faith save him?" implying his faith actually can't save him (direct contradiction to other verses of Abraham's faith being counted for righteousness). And this is not related to the faith saving the man in need, it makes no sense on how the sentence is made. The whole book just does not say anything about being justified before man, but really a general justification by works and by faith.

You can take a pure dispensationalist view, as you said, James being placed in the latter NT books even though it was written before Acts 15 event, James is meant for those who will be justified after the grace dispensation is over, the tribulation period, where you need faith and works once again.

This is the truth. It makes the most sense. Because the Jews were not justified by works and faith, it was always faith credited as righteousness. They were not saved by the law but the law was a schoolmaster for things to come. But it's different in the end times, when one will not only be justified by faith alone but by faith and works. As mentioned before, avoiding the mark, enduring until the end, keeping God's commandments, etc are all needed to survive and to get saved in the last days. So this book makes perfect sense addressing the twelve tribes of Israel during Jacob's trouble. It is a prophetic book. Talking about "count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;" and everything else talking about the tribulation in the last days for Israel. It's also near the end of the bible, it's definitely for the Jews during Jacob's trouble. There is no other way to interpret this to make sense. It made perfect sense when I realized this, it is for Israel in the last days.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This would be false teaching, because it connects works to salvation.

But what is the alternative?
A sin and still be saved gospel or belief?
When a person denies good works and living holy, the only alternative then it is live unholy or to live unfruitful to God.

George Sodini was a huge OSAS proponent and yet he believed he would be saved despite his murdering a bunch of people and the taking of his own life.

 

[DM25]

I agree, but Paul never gave a teaching (or way of salvation) to the Gentile believers that was different for the Jewish believers in Christ.

Of course not. Everyone is saved by believing in Jesus Christ alone and his finished work of the cross, not working for it. This message is for everyone.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Of course not. Everyone is saved by believing in Jesus Christ alone and his finished work of the cross, not working for it. This message is for everyone.

Refresh the page, and see post #116.

 

[DM25]

But what is the alternative?
A sin and still be saved gospel or belief?
When a person denies good works and living holy, the only alternative then it is live unholy or to live unfruitful to God.

You seem to have a big focus on man's works rather than the finished work of Jesus. But all our works and righteousness are like filthy rags. We can only be made righteous through the obedience of one... You must understand that to get saved. Good works and repenting of sins is great AFTER you are saved, and that's what God wants us to do as already saved people sealed until the day of redemption resting in his grace. You can't clean a fish until you catch it first.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You seem to have a big focus on man's works rather than the finished work of Jesus. But all our works and righteousness are like filthy rags. We can only be made righteous through the obedience of one... You must understand that to get saved. Good works and repenting of sins is great AFTER you are saved, and that's what God wants us to do as already saved people sealed until the day of redemption resting in his grace. You can't clean a fish until you catch it first.

Please read the context of Isaiah 64:6. When the Isaiah refers to our works of righteousness as being as filthy rags, he is referring to man directed works righteousness and he is not referring to obeying the commandments of God. Again, what is the alternative to not doing good works? It would obviously be living in sin, right? So do you believe you can sin and still be saved?