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Revelation 6

th1bill

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Revelation 6:1:
And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.


Remember, Christ, the Lamb that was slain, has just taken hold of the scroll and has now opened the first seal. It is also important that these ¨beasts¨ are in the ranking of the hierarchy of the Angels. These are the four that guard the Throne of God, forever, and one has just invited John to approach the Throne to see what is in the scroll.


Revelation 6:2:
And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.


There are many thoughts put forth that this white horse is the same horse and rider we will find in the nineteenth chapter, I tend to disagree. I know that Jesus is there opening the scroll and I accept that these things are to happen in the future but for this rider, on this white horse, to be Jesus, I would need to forget the truth of the work He did on the cross. His ¨work¨ is finished until He sets foot on the Earth to rule! This rider has gone forth conquering and to conquer. Having attempted to conquer I know for the truth that this is a deadly serious work.


Revelation 6:3:
And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.


John appears to have either stepped back or is very involved in watching the events caused by the rider of the first horse and rider and when the LORD had opened the next seal another angelic being had to call his attention back to looking at the scroll. I believe that it is essential to remember that the present, the future and the past are all current in Heaven and to remember that John, alive in the first century s viewing events that will, very likely, occur in the twenty-first century and very soon.


Revelation 6:4:
And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.


Anything is possible in Heaven because the power of God is without limit but I have never seen red horse and I do feel that God used these, vividly different horses for, likely, many reasons and the first thing I see is an example of the unlimited spectrum of God. So we see the character on this horse is going forth with a sword, an implement of war and he will bring war to the earth. I´ve seen some that teach the idea that this war, here, is to be a limited war with perhaps twenty or thirty percent of the world, to include, certainly, Israel... I disagree! In the mid-sixties I read a book titled ¨The Haj¨ and it peaked my interest in the Muslim World. Although I was disagreed with by my peers in the military I saw the civilized Nations at war with the Arab Nations and in a religious war with them, I see the events of today going there. It is a World War and we are, in my opinion watching the beginnig of it right now and they are moving in all of the world.


Revelation 6:5:
And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.


If we have kept the commandment to study to show ourselves approved I feel that everyone of us know the scripture that assures us that a single meal will cost a full days wages and that is what we see here.

Revelation 6:6:
And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.


Continuing: This Black Horse represents a terrible dark time. When the disciples walked with Jesus, they learned to walk in the light. Over the span of the centuries the Light we are to walk in has grown darker and darker as we have twisted the words of the writers of the scriptures, giving them the meaning we wish to live with. The scale represents judgment!


Revelation 6:7:
And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.


Revelation 6:8:
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.


I do not know if I should agree or to disagree but some see this Pale Horse as a very light, almost white, green. Regardless of the exact color of the horse, it had the correct affect on John. Riding this horse is an Angel of Death and he has been given the duty of bringing a living Hell to a fourth part of the world. The time of the Day of the LORD will be a terrible time for a great number, at least 1.5 billion people.


Revelation 6:9:
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:


I have been taught, all of my life, that these are the ones, after the Rapture, that took the LORD for their Savior and were killed for it.


Revelation 6:10:
And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?


Revelation 6:11:
And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.


It appears that we should read the News more often because if we do so, to study, we find examples, even today, of great Church growth. In the 1990s there was a great persecution of Christians. Daily, hundreds of believers were savagely murdered by the Muslims from the north of Sudan. (The simmering war we are experiencing everywhere today) As these were being murdered, the Church there grew by hundreds and thousands a day. (Could this be what will happen during the Great Tribulation?)


Revelation 6:12:
And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;


Revelation 6:13:
And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.


Revelation 6:14:
And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.


Revelation 6:15:
And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;


Revelation 6:16:
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:


Revelatio 6:17:
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


I am certain that I do not ever wish to live through this time, The Day of the LORD. Once there was a very large bond fire and, before it was illegal to do so. There were rubber tires thrown into the fire so that the smoke was a thick black plume. As I watched the fire consume everything I could see the Sun. It was dark red and not inviting at all.


In these last verses, before the Seventh Seal is opened, we see all the people of the Earth, the live ones, trying to hide from the Omnipotent God. The sky has rolled back as a scroll, the Stars are falling to the Earth and killing everything and people are scared to death, this is a time you do not want to be unsaved.
 

C-Man

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Revelation 6:12:
And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

An asteroid impact would certainly cause such a condition, as the sun and moon would be blocked out and discolored by all the crud in the air. The description elsewhere in Revelation of a "burning mountain" being cast into the sea is obvious, since John wouldn't know what an asteroid was.
Revelation 6:13:
And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

This could describe a nuclear war, as again, John wouldn't know what nuclear weapons are.

Also...
This quite possibly the best artist's concept of the four horsemen I've ever seen.
 
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pilgrim42

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Your subject is very extensive, so I will just address what I can.
The Book of Revelation is about about the desolation of Israel and the destruction of Jerusalem. Opening of the seals by Jesus is setting the stage for Jerusalem to meet its demise.
V:1 shows us the victorious Jesus. All the lightning, thundering, etc is a symbolic way to show us the severity of the coming storm (invasion of Jerusalem).

V:2 the white horse represents victory. This however, is not the victory of our Savior. The rider was most likely Julius Ceasar and the horse was the kingdom he ruled. It was this kingdom that destroy Israel and would bring horrible persecution upon the saints of God.

I'm going to jump down to V:9

Who were these souls? We know that these are people who have lost their lives on earth. They were killed for their faith. They are identified as being under the altar, which could represent their sacrifice.
Their testimony is not identified as the testimony of Jesus. Their testimony is identified with the testimony of the Old Testament saints which is found in 11:7.

What are they crying for? Vengeance.
Some of them had waited for hundreds of years and never had a white robe. Why now. Because Jesus had come. He gave them robes washed in His blood. Then they had to rest for a little season. Why? Because 70 AD had not arrived yet.

They were told to rest until "their fellowservants also and their brethen,that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled". Who were they? Most likely the New Testament saints that would also be killed during the Roman tribulation against Jerusalem. Most of these saints died at the hands of Jews.

Ken :holy:
 
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th1bill

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Your subject is very extensive, so I will just address what I can.
The Book of Revelation is about about the desolation of Israel and the destruction of Jerusalem. Opening of the seals by Jesus is setting the stage for Jerusalem to meet its demise.
V:1 shows us the victorious Jesus. All the lightning, thundering, etc is a symbolic way to show us the severity of the coming storm (invasion of Jerusalem).

V:2 the white horse represents victory. This however, is not the victory of our Savior. The rider was most likely Julius Ceasar and the horse was the kingdom he ruled. It was this kingdom that destroy Israel and would bring horrible persecution upon the saints of God.

I'm going to jump down to V:9

Who were these souls? We know that these are people who have lost their lives on earth. They were killed for their faith. They are identified as being under the altar, which could represent their sacrifice.
Their testimony is not identified as the testimony of Jesus. Their testimony is identified with the testimony of the Old Testament saints which is found in 11:7.

What are they crying for? Vengeance.
Some of them had waited for hundreds of years and never had a white robe. Why now. Because Jesus had come. He gave them robes washed in His blood. Then they had to rest for a little season. Why? Because 70 AD had not arrived yet.

They were told to rest until "their fellowservants also and their brethen,that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled". Who were they? Most likely the New Testament saints that would also be killed during the Roman tribulation against Jerusalem. Most of these saints died at the hands of Jews.

Ken :holy:
Iĺl admit that you will never each that, wishy-washy, junk in our Church! Do you ever speak with, not to, the Holy Spirit? Are you some kind of Baptist?
 
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His_disciple3

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Iĺl admit that you will never each that, wishy-washy, junk in our Church! Do you ever speak with, not to, the Holy Spirit? Are you some kind of Baptist?
I have not done alot of indepth study of Revelation, but have listened to several preachers or teachers that have. and I have learned that you need prophecy from the Old Testament concerning the times of jacob's trouble, times of trouble and even daniels seventy weeks, and so on and so on from the Old testament, and even some prophecy Jesus gave us concerning the end times, to even be able to come close to understanding Revelation, and if your teachings is what your church teaches then both have failed to interpret Revelation with any prophecy from the Old Testament, after all don't we live by every Word from God not just the Last book. we don't interpret scripture by your speculation or assumption, and surely your Church don't encourage that! now as far as this post you posted in a Baptist room who was you assuming to respond Quakers??
 
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pilgrim42

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"Iĺl admit that you will never each that, wishy-washy, junk in our Church! Do you ever speak with, not to, the Holy Spirit? Are you some kind of Baptist?"
quoted.


I'm disappointed that you are so closed minded about my comment. What exactly was wishy-washy? I could also say that separating the 70th week from the 69th week by hundreds of years is also wishy-washy. Do we really need to do that? Some would say that doing that is "stretching" prophecy. I guess some people need to do that so they can find a 7 year period of tribulation somewhere out in the future. When we understand that most of prophecy was completed in 70 AD with the destruction of the Jewish homeland and religious system, then it seems more logical.

Am I a Baptist? Yes, I am a member. Does that mean that i am not allowed to have a different view of prophecy?

Ken :holy:
 
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th1bill

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I have not done alot of indepth study of Revelation, but have listened to several preachers or teachers that have. and I have learned that you need prophecy from the Old Testament concerning the times of jacob's trouble, times of trouble and even daniels seventy weeks, and so on and so on from the Old testament, and even some prophecy Jesus gave us concerning the end times, to even be able to come close to understanding Revelation, and if your teachings is what your church teaches then both have failed to interpret Revelation with any prophecy from the Old Testament, after all don't we live by every Word from God not just the Last book. we don't interpret scripture by your speculation or assumption, and surely your Church don't encourage that! now as far as this post you posted in a Baptist room who was you assuming to respond Quakers??
I, actually, do not know your education, nor do I know your life experiences but you do seem to be naive. And from your response I am left to conclude that you are part of the Liberal Christian Movement and all I´ll say here is that Liberal Christian is an Oxymoron!
 
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pilgrim42

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I, actually, do not know your education, nor do I know your life experiences but you do seem to be naive. And from your response I am left to conclude that you are part of the Liberal Christian Movement and all I´ll say here is that Liberal Christian is an Oxymoron!

As far as my education is concerned, I have 16 years of formal education. is that enough? As far as being part of a liberal movement is concerned, you are wrong again. I am very conservative on almost everything. Maybe not prophecy.

You still haven't come up with a reason why my interpretation of prophecy was wrong. Please remember that the new "Left Behind" type interpretation only came into being around 1840 with the writings of John Darby. The church was silent on a premillenial theory up to that point.

Ken :holy:
 
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th1bill

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"Iĺl admit that you will never each that, wishy-washy, junk in our Church! Do you ever speak with, not to, the Holy Spirit? Are you some kind of Baptist?"
quoted.


I'm disappointed that you are so closed minded about my comment. What exactly was wishy-washy? I could also say that separating the 70th week from the 69th week by hundreds of years is also wishy-washy. Do we really need to do that? Some would say that doing that is "stretching" prophecy. I guess some people need to do that so they can find a 7 year period of tribulation somewhere out in the future. When we understand that most of prophecy was completed in 70 AD with the destruction of the Jewish homeland and religious system, then it seems more logical.

Am I a Baptist? Yes, I am a member. Does that mean that i am not allowed to have a different view of prophecy?

Ken :holy:
I´ll just deal with the first verse, if that´s okay. When we read the text and establish the context for this verse we see the four angels at the four corners of the Earth and not at the four corners of Jerusalem. The Holy City is, certainly, the Yard Stick we measure by but the prophecy is not limited to Jerusalem.
 
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th1bill

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As far as my education is concerned, I have 16 years of formal education. is that enough? As far as being part of a liberal movement is concerned, you are wrong again. I am very conservative on almost everything. Maybe not prophecy.

You still haven't come up with a reason why my interpretation of prophecy was wrong. Please remember that the new "Left Behind" type interpretation only came into being around 1840 with the writings of John Darby. The church was silent on a premillenial theory up to that point.

Ken :holy:
Ken, the post you quoted and seem to have taken offense to was in response to His_Desciple. I do not know if I should congratulate you or feel sorry for you with sixteen years of education but FYI I have exactly half of that and my understanding of scripture is a direct result of the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit and my moment to moment submission to His leading.

As for the left behind ideology, God is still revealing the mysteries hidden in His Word... as we need the knowledge. As for education, when we read and then meditate on the scriptures and stop trying to read into the scriptures by ¨interpreting¨ them, the Spirit will show us the truth. Again, this is revealed by our L
ORD... as we have need.
 
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a pilgrim

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Bill,

If I am not mistaken, Ken's comments are whats considered the preterist view. Are you familiar with that. This being a Baptist discussion area, it sticks out because it is more associated with Reformed Theology, (calvinism,) and guys like R.C. Sproul, (a Presbyterian.)

Preterism pretty much sums up the prophetic content of the Revelation, Matt. 24, and such, as things that already have happened. Statements about the stars falling, the Lord returning, etc., are applied in a symbolic sense.

This would NOT be a classic "Baptist" view, at all. And, I would add, neither do I think it is a biblical one.

Most reliable scholarship dates the writing of the Revelation, late, like in the A.D. 90's. The destruction of Jerusalem happened in A.D. 70. So, how can the Revelation, a book written 20 years later be about the destruction of Jerusalem?:confused: It cannot. However, every false teaching usually brings in a fix. Enter, the date correctors. Seeing the 20 year problem, they have come up with a early date for the Revelation. Just before the destruction of Jerusalem. . . pretty convenient, huh?

So, as they would say in the military, as you were soldier.

Ben
 
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pilgrim42

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I´ll just deal with the first verse, if that´s okay. When we read the text and establish the context for this verse we see the four angels at the four corners of the Earth and not at the four corners of Jerusalem. The Holy City is, certainly, the Yard Stick we measure by but the prophecy is not limited to Jerusalem.

What is your point? I'm sure that the Angels at the four corners of the earth is symbolic since there is no such thing as "corners of the earth." What we are dealing with is the prophecy of those things that are shorty coming to pass. I would say that "shortly" is more likely to be about 30 years in the future(when Jerusalem feel) rather than 2000 years or more in the future. The Angels are preparing John for the Great Tribulation which will be delivered by the Romans.
Israel and Jerusalem become the focus of the opening of the Seals and the bowls of Wrath. We have to remember that John is using figurative language to describe a literal event that will occur in the generation. Don't forget what Jesus said in Matthew 24 about Jerusalem being destroyed "in this generation." A generation was considered to be forty years

ken :holy:
 
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pilgrim42

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Ken, the post you quoted and seem to have taken offense to was in response to His_Desciple. I do not know if I should congratulate you or feel sorry for you with sixteen years of education but FYI I have exactly half of that and my understanding of scripture is a direct result of the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit and my moment to moment submission to His leading.

As for the left behind ideology, God is still revealing the mysteries hidden in His Word... as we need the knowledge. As for education, when we read and then meditate on the scriptures and stop trying to read into the scriptures by ¨interpreting¨ them, the Spirit will show us the truth. Again, this is revealed by our L
ORD... as we have need.

I wasn't trying to come across as being offended. All I want to do is to understand the Word of God, and I'm sure you are seeking the same thing. Prophecy is important, but not as important as the teachings on righteousness, holiness, and obedience to His Word.

What do you mean by "the Spirit will show us the truth?" Most of us believe that the Spirit has showed us the truth about prophecy. Because you or I claim that we are operating in the Spirit, it doesn't mean that it is happening. I do want to be lead by the Spirit, but what do I need to do to have that happen? I need to look at the Word in context. I need to find the best interpretation from the original writings. I need to look at how the first generation of believers received the Word. The Early church Fathers were taught by the Lord's disciples, so they should know the intention of the writings and oral teachings that would eventually be packaged in the Bible. This sounds better to me than feeling an "impulse" from the Holy Ghost.

Ken :holy:
 
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pilgrim42

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Bill,

If I am not mistaken, Ken's comments are whats considered the preterist view. Are you familiar with that. This being a Baptist discussion area, it sticks out because it is more associated with Reformed Theology, (calvinism,) and guys like R.C. Sproul, (a Presbyterian.)

Preterism pretty much sums up the prophetic content of the Revelation, Matt. 24, and such, as things that already have happened. Statements about the stars falling, the Lord returning, etc., are applied in a symbolic sense.

This would NOT be a classic "Baptist" view, at all. And, I would add, neither do I think it is a biblical one.

Most reliable scholarship dates the writing of the Revelation, late, like in the A.D. 90's. The destruction of Jerusalem happened in A.D. 70. So, how can the Revelation, a book written 20 years later be about the destruction of Jerusalem?:confused: It cannot. However, every false teaching usually brings in a fix. Enter, the date correctors. Seeing the 20 year problem, they have come up with a early date for the Revelation. Just before the destruction of Jerusalem. . . pretty convenient, huh?

So, as they would say in the military, as you were soldier.

Ben

Yes, I do hold to a partial Preterist view, but I will hasten to say that I am not positive about that view or really most view about prophecy. What I do know is that I am ready for the Lord's return and the end of time, whatever that entails. Sorry, but I am not a Calvinist. I don't even agree with all the tenents of the Southern Baptist Church (still have a little Armenian in me I guess).

You know there isn't a lot proof that the Book of Revelation was written around 90 AD. We really don't know how long John lived on Patmos. Maybe he left in 69 AD. I don't know.

Ken :holy:
 
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th1bill

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Yes, I do hold to a partial Preterist view, but I will hasten to say that I am not positive about that view or really most view about prophecy. What I do know is that I am ready for the Lord's return and the end of time, whatever that entails. Sorry, but I am not a Calvinist. I don't even agree with all the tenents of the Southern Baptist Church (still have a little Armenian in me I guess).

You know there isn't a lot proof that the Book of Revelation was written around 90 AD. We really don't know how long John lived on Patmos. Maybe he left in 69 AD. I don't know.

Ken :holy:
Ken,
The Christian Life begins with faith! Without that faith there is no salvation. And for the man of faith, the Bible ¨is¨ the Word of God and with God there is no fault.
 
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pilgrim42

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Ken,
The Christian Life begins with faith! Without that faith there is no salvation. And for the man of faith, the Bible ¨is¨ the Word of God and with God there is no fault.

There is no disagreement here. Maybe we should get back to Rev. 6.

Ken :holy:
 
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