Reve 16 and Great Hail question

[LittleLambofJesus]

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[LittleLambofJesus]

 

[brinny]

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

There is no reason to think it's not literal.
God said it without explaination.
There is no other mention of this event in the Bible.
So I'm just going to go with what God said in plain language.
I trust Him. You?

Ezekiel 38:22 And I judge him in plague and in blood and downpour overflowing
and stones of hail/417 'elgabiysh/# 5464 xalazhv, fire and sulphur I shall rain on him and all troops of him and on peoples many ones who with him
[Reve 16:21/20:9]

Reve 16:21 And great Hail/calaza <5464> as talent-weight is descending out of the Heaven upon the Men.
And blaspheme the God the Men out of the blow of the Hail, that great is the blow of it/her, tremendous.
[Ezekiel 38:22]

Reve 20:9 And they ascended upon the breadth of the land and surrounded the camp of the Saints and the City, the beloved
and descended fire out of the heaven from the God and devours them.
[Ezekiel 38:22]

 

[1whirlwind]

Greetings. How do other Christians here view this event in Reve 16:21. Is the hailstones falling from Heaven literal or is it symbolic. This is the only place in the NT that uses this word though it is used a number of times in the OT. Please just keep this on the topic of the "hailstones". Thanks

Hi LLOJ....I saw this thread a few days ago and since then I'm being bombarded with mentions of....hailstones. I figured it must be time to look into them. I just finished the following on another forum and copy it here to reply to yours....(sorry about the length but...it just happens. )

Interestingly, I have seen mention of hail and questions about it's meaning on various forums for the past week or so. It seems more than one are questioning exactly what is being said. Your post caused deeper study and I asked Him to reveal what His hail is. As always, His answers are in His Word......

I wondered....were the "hailstones" literal hailstones or were they symbolic of something? Was the historic event, such as the one in Joshua, telling us of literal hailstones and if yes....was it a type for the future spiritual hailstones?

1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

​

My answer was found in.....

Ezekiel 13:2-4 Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear ye the word of the LORD; Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing! O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.
​

As you know, Israel consists of twelve tribes...but Israel is not just the Jews, who are the house of Judah. The other ten tribes are the house of Israel. They are Israelite but not Jewish. They are those Christ was sent to and....He found us. We carry His name.

They/we are Christian and we have "foolish prophets" speaking to us out of "their own hearts," and of "their own spirit." They don't hear, see or speak...The WORD OF THE LORD. You see them on television, at some pulpits, on forums....for "wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together."[Matthew 24:28] The carcase being....the spiritually dead bodies of God's children they are misleading.

13:6-7 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith: and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word. Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken?

13:9-11 And Mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of My people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD. Because, even because they have seduced My people, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter: Say unto them which daub it with untempered morter, that it shall fall: there shall be an overflowing shower; and ye, O great hailstones, shall fall; and a stormy wind shall rend it.

9:13-15 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even rend it with a stormy wind in My fury; and there shall be an overflowing shower in Mine anger, and great hailstones in My fury to consume it. So will I break down the wall that ye have daubed with untempered morter, and bring it down to the ground, so that the foundation thereof shall be discovered, and it shall fall, and ye shall be consumed in the midst thereof: and ye shall know that I am the LORD. Thus will I accomplish My wrath upon the wall, and upon them that have daubed it with untempered morter, and will say unto you, The wall is no more, neither they that daubed it;
​

The "hailstones" are the false prophets, false teachers, and world leaders that guide God's children to their destruction. They are part of His great army He sends to prove us. Will we listen to them or to our Father?

Deuteronomy 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
​

Knowing that makes it easier for me to understand.....

Revelation 8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in His temple the ark of His testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

16:21And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
​

They don't blaspheme God because hail, a great hunk of ice, is falling on them but because of what the great hail is teaching them to believe. They are learning lies which causes them to blaspheme God without even knowing it. The great hail (great lying false prophets) mingle God's Word (fire) with blood. "For the life of the flesh is in the blood." [Leviticus 17:11] And we know that...."flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God." [1 Corinthians 15:50]

Satan succeeds in slaying the souls of men by deceiving them into committing blasphemy.

Luke 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.
​

The false prophets of Israel, our brethren, are laying the groundwork now but soon, if not already, the "great hail," which I believe will happen during the "great tribulation" will begin/has begun?

Revelation 12:7-9 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
​

He is the "great hail out of heaven."
​

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

*snip*
Hi LLOJ....I saw this thread a few days ago and since then I'm being bombarded with mentions of....hailstones. I figured it must be time to look into them. I just finished the following on another forum and copy it here to reply to yours....(sorry about the length but...it just happens. ).....

Thank you for your post and vote

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Doing a google search to get some ideas on how others view the "great hail", I found a few sites that believe they were symbolizing the hugh stones the Romans used in their catapaults during the prophecied siege of Jerusalem. [I view Revelation as that event as also shown in the Olivet Discourse]. Thoughts?

IBSS - The Bible - Revelation

100 lb. Hailstones
Revelation 16:21 tells how huge hailstones fell from heaven weighing a talent which is about 100 pounds. Josephus describes 100 lb. white stones coming from Roman catapults down on the Jews in Jerusalem (Jewish Wars, Book 5.6.3).

https://www.kennethgentry.com/catalog/apocalypse.htm

The prophecy of the talent weight hailstones has found a similar fulfillment in the siege of Jerusalem, according to the preterist. Josephus states of the catapults of the Roman tenth legion: "the stones that were cast, were of the weight of a talent, and were carried two furlongs and further.... As for the Jews, they at first watched the coming of the stone, for it was a white color" (Wars 5:6:3). These stones not only had the weight required by John, but were the same color as hail.

Life and Land

Life and Land » Blog Archive » WAS “BABYLON” DESTROYED WHEN JERUSALEM FELL IN AD 70? &#8211; part 2

*snip*

Then, "great hail from heaven fell upon men, every hailstone about the weight of a talent. And men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great" (16:21). Chilton correctly sees the connection between this judgment and the 7th plague during the Exodus from Egypt (Ex. 9:18-26), and the hailstones that fell on the Canaanite at Beth Horon (Josh. 10:11). In both cases these were literal hailstones and in modern day military parlance, they would be "air-to-surface" projectiles.

Yet how does Chilton and other preterists, understand these hailstones? "Hailstones" = stone missiles (ballista stones) shot from Roman catapults against the Jewish defenders of Jerusalem! (Chilton 1987:417,418; Gentry 1998:245,246; Russell 1996:480,481; Ogden 1996:322,323). Josephus describes the Roman "artillery engines" (or "stone projectors") as "wonderfully constructed" and "the rocks which they hurled weighed a talent and had a range of two furlongs or more" (Wars 5:269,270; LCL 3:285). Elsewhere Josephus mentions the 160 artillery engines that the three Roman legions employed against Jerusalem and ballista stones that weighted one talent (Wars 3:166-168; LCL 2:627). In modern military jargon these would be "surface-to-surface" projectiles.
The differences between hailstones and ballista stones are drastic. One is made of ice and the other is made of stone, and in Jerusalem, limestone. One is "air-to-surface" and divinely poured out, while the other, is "surface-to-surface" man made artillery shot by the Romans. The only similarities between the hailstones of Rev. 16 and the ballista stones of the Roman siege are that they both weighed one talent. According to Chilton, a talent is equal to 100 pounds. Others dispute this claim and say, "no precise weight is intended by the talent-sized hailstones poured out of the bowl of the seventh angel in Rev. 16:21, but they would have been formidable, weighing, even by the late Jewish definition of the talent, at least 20.4 kg" (Powell 1992:6:907b). If one converted this weight, 20.4 kg would equal 49.982 pounds, half what Chilton states.
A good example of ballista stones found in an archaeological context in Jerusalem can be seen in the area of the Citadel Museum at Jaffa Gate. However, these stones are not from the First Jewish Revolt, but most likely from "the siege of Jerusalem by Antiochus VII Sidetes during the reign of John Hyrcanus (133-132 B.C.E.)" (Sivan and Solar 1994:174; a photograph of the ballista stones can be seen on page 173).

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

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http://www.christianforums.com/t7484467/#post55293761

 

[brinny]

Greetings. How do other Christians here view this event in Reve 16:21. Is the hailstones falling from Heaven literal or is it symbolic. This is the only place in the NT that uses this word though it is used a number of times in the OT. Please just keep this on the topic of the "hailstones". Thanks

Reve 16:21 And Hail/calaza <5464>great as talent-weight is descending out of the Heaven upon the Men, and blaspheme the God the Men out of the blow of the Hail/calazhV <5464> , that great is the blow of it/her, tremendous. [LXX # 5464 used in Ezekiel 38:22]

Textus Rec.) Revelation 16:21 kai calaza megalh wV talantiaia katabainei ek tou ouranou epi touV anqrwpouV kai eblasfhmhsan oi anqrwpoi ton qeon ek thV plhghV thV calazhV oti megalh estin h plhgh authV sfodra

5464. chalaza khal'-ad-zah probably from 5465; hail:--hail. Used 4 times Reve 8:7, 11:19, Reve 16:21 [2 times]
5465. chalao khal-ah'-o from the base of 5490; to lower (as into a void):--let down, strike.

Originally Posted by squint Spin it however you see it. Don't recall any history of 100lb hailstones

I believe it's literal, and is literally, hail stones without GOd's grace to buffer, shelter, or protect us...but larger, in all their impact, and meant to be exactly what they are.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I believe it's literal, and is literally, hail stones without GOd's grace to buffer, shelter, or protect us...but larger, in all their impact, and meant to be exactly what they are.

Great post!
It was the 7th plague to befall Pharaoh and the Egyptians, but in this case, the land of Goshen, where the OC Israelites were, remained safe

[NKJV] Exodus 9:18 "Behold, tomorrow about this time I will cause very heavy hail to rain down, such as has not been in Egypt since its founding until now.
24 So there was hail, and fire mingled with the hail, so very heavy that there was none like it in all the land of Egypt since it became a nation.
26 Only in the land of Goshen, where the children of Israel [were,] there was no hail.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

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[LittleLambofJesus]

Hmmm.....anyone? Only 22 votes so far.....sigh

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Maybe this thread would get better responses on the Eschatology board

http://www.christianforums.com/t7502133/#post55876369

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Bumpy wumpy

 

[Optimax]

Job 38:22-23

22 "Have you visited the treasuries of the snow? Have you seen where the hail is made and stored? 23 I have reserved it for the time of trouble, for the day of battle and war
NLT

 

[Gregory Thompson]

(other) Most things in revelation are a mixture of literal and figurative or both at once .

this is about the same .

 

[plmarquette]

hermeneutics...context...application...interpretation...

it either all is literal or all is figurative or all true or all false...
if we start picking things on the menu we like and don't like...
then by who's authority can we belive
1 Jn 1.9 forgivenss
Romans 10 salvation
Luke 9.1, 10.9 authority

Deuteronomy 29.29 ....secret things of God...true, don't have understanding, still true... [do you know how to build an ipod? is that necessary to use one?]

 

[Gregory Thompson]

If i interpret the bible as both figurative and literal at the same time with consistency, then there is no problem, Jesus spoke on two levels all the time .

 

[pgp_protector]

Job 38:22-23

22 "Have you visited the treasuries of the snow? Have you seen where the hail is made and stored?

Yes, I've visited where the hail & snow is made.

Job 38:22-2323 I have reserved it for the time of trouble, for the day of battle and war
NLT