Reve 16 and Great Hail question

[Saucy]

I don't really know which parts of Revelations are symbolic or literal, so I take it as literal since John is seeing the future. Maybe he doesn't have the right words...they may not be hail, but something else entirely. Could be bombs of some sort.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by precepts I really wonder what difference it makes?

For the person(s) standing under one that was falling it would make a big difference!

Ya gotta point there

The Day After Tomorrow - Tokyo Hail storm - YouTube

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I believe it is literal

It could be literal in the sense of large stones launched from catapaults, as Josephus describes concerning the destruction of Jerusalem.
I tend to go with this view as I and a lot of others view OC Jerusalem in Revelation. IMHO

The Babylon of Revelation is Referring to Jerusalem

5 - Great hail weighing one talent is said to fall upon men there (Revelation 16:21).
Josephus tells of the Roman catapults being used to cast whitewashed boulders over the walls of Jerusalem and they each weighed one talent.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

As a consequence, the legions were able to build their redoubts almost without any trouble; soon, their catapults started to throw heavy stones into the city. Under cover of this artillery fire, the Roman soldiers could start to bash the northern wall with their battering-rams.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Lets see... Fire and brimstone.

As the brimstone (which is sulfur) is traveling through space it has nothing to react with thus it is brimstone. When the brimstone hits the atmosphere the following reaction takes place...

S + O2 = SO2

SO2 is a deadly gas. As the brimstone breaks up in the atmosphere it produces a hail like rain... Only the rain is deadly SO2.

Sulfur reacting with oxygen...

Sulfur in pure oxygen - YouTube

Very interesting.
Revelation mentions that word a few times, tho most times it is called "brimstone"

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number G2303 matches the Greek θεῖον (theion), which occurs 7 times in 7 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

NKJV) Luke 17:29 "but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone/qeion <2303> from heaven and destroyed [them] all.

NKJV) Revelation 9:18 By these three [plagues] a third of mankind was killed -- by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone/qeiou <2303> which came out of their mouths.

Ezekiel 38:22 also mentions that

Ezekiel 38:22 "And I judged him in pestilence and in blood and in downpour overflowing and stones of Hail, Fire and Sulphur I shall rain on him and on troops of him and on peoples many one who with him.
[Revelation 16:21 and 20:9]

The Crazy World Of Arthur Brown - Fire - YouTube

 

[precepts]

I think you guys are taking adventage of the situation, what difference does it make if Revelation is literal or symbolic? Will the difference help you interpret Revelation? No! So, give me a break with all this empty barrel theology.

 

[razeontherock]

I believe it is literal

That was the 20 million blessing question

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I think you guys are taking adventage of the situation, what difference does it make if Revelation is literal or symbolic? Will the difference help you interpret Revelation? No! So, give me a break with all this empty barrel theology.

And here's the 20 million blessing answer, it's spiritual. John was in the spirit. Now, back to the empty barrel discussion.

Nice analogy

 

[precepts]

And here's the 20 million blessing answer, it's spiritual. John was in the spirit. Now, back to the empty barrel discussion.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by psalms 91 I believe it is literal

That was the 20 million blessing question

I think that honor goes to Optimax

For the person(s) standing under one that was falling it would make a big difference!

 

[christianmomof3]

I think that when the Lord has made His final revelation to us, some folks are gonna have a hail of a time explaining why they wasted so much time arguing online about this.

 

[Saucy]

That's very interesting about Babylon being destroyed is Jerusalem in 70 AD. I had never heard that before. If that's the case, then does that mean Satan has been bound? Are we in the thousand year reign of peace right now? No, the devil is still out and about. Nor are we living in New Jerusalem with Jesus as king.

Unless all that is a reference to what happens after we die, then Revelations has not been fulfilled yet. I still believe Babylon is Rome, more specifically Vatican City. Is Jerusalem a city on seven hills?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

That's very interesting about Babylon being destroyed is Jerusalem in 70 AD. I had never heard that before. If that's the case, then does that mean Satan has been bound? Are we in the thousand year reign of peace right now? No, the devil is still out and about. Nor are we living in New Jerusalem with Jesus as king.

Unless all that is a reference to what happens after we die, then Revelations has not been fulfilled yet. I still believe Babylon is Rome, more specifically Vatican City. Is Jerusalem a city on seven hills?

That is a possiblility. The denari is mentioned in Revelation and the 7 heads are symbolized as "mountains"

John 11:48 "If-ever we may be be letting Him thus, all shall be believing in Him.
And shall be coming the Romans and they shall be taking away of Us and the Place and the Nation
[Reve 6:6/14:8]

Young) Revelation 17:9 `Here [is] the mind that is having wisdom; the seven heads are seven mountains, upon which the woman doth sit,

Revelation 6:6 And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "choinex of grain/wheat a denarius and three choinex of barleys a denarius, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring".
[John 11:48]

 

[Saucy]

Well, when you think about it, Rome is still Rome. I know the Roman empire is nowhere near the size it is now, but it's still Rome. They probably didn't know the modern name for Roman money, but they still saw Rome.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Well, when you think about it, Rome is still Rome. I know the Roman empire is nowhere near the size it is now, but it's still Rome. They probably didn't know the modern name for Roman money, but they still saw Rome.

We may never know the answer to that in our lifetime the way it looks

John 19:15 Those yet cry-out "take-away! take-away! crucify! Him".
Pilate is saying to them "the King of ye I shall be crucifying?".
Answered the Chief-priests "not we are having a King except Caesar"

Acts 25:11 For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die.
But if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them. I appeal unto Caesar!

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...s.com+babylon+rome+jerusalem+christian+forums
search rome jerusalem babylon Christian Forums

http://www.christianforums.com/t7444613/
Babylon = Imitation of Jerusalem?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7565168-8/
Is the United States Babylon?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Anyone else want to give their input on this? Thanks

 

[Sieben]

I view all the trumpets and bowls to be literal.
None of the trumpets has been sounded yet and we're not in the 1000 years of peace. Because if the 7th trumpet sounded, then the resurrection of the Saints is past. That means we should be able to see them, in their kingdom, no? Where all the kingdoms of the Earth flow into Zion and learn of God? There also has been no great tribulation as far as the eye can see. The events spoken of in revelation are 7 years, beginning from the first trumpet till the last bowl. Daniel 12 says the resurrection happens 1335 days within these tribulations. This happens to be the seventh trumpet Paul spoke about "at the last trump" and coincidentally when the seventh trumpet sounds in revelations it says its time for the rewarding of the Saints. The only reward we have is resurrection.

So, literal it is.

 

[James 75]

Why the hail wouldn't you believe they are literal?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I view all the trumpets and bowls to be literal.
None of the trumpets has been sounded yet and we're not in the 1000 years of peace. Because if the 7th trumpet sounded, then the resurrection of the Saints is past. That means we should be able to see them, in their kingdom, no? Where all the kingdoms of the Earth flow into Zion and learn of God? There also has been no great tribulation as far as the eye can see. The events spoken of in revelation are 7 years, beginning from the first trumpet till the last bowl. Daniel 12 says the resurrection happens 1335 days within these tribulations. This happens to be the seventh trumpet Paul spoke about "at the last trump" and coincidentally when the seventh trumpet sounds in revelations it says its time for the rewarding of the Saints. The only reward we have is resurrection.

So, literal it is.

Thank you for your response

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Why the hail wouldn't you believe they are literal?

Hail if I know

 

[Gnarwhal]

I think they're a symbolic representation of the stones launched from Roman catapults during the siege of Jerusalem, which would be consistent with the fact that Revelation is apocalyptic in nature and discusses events in the early churches immediate future.