Rev 17:8 Reigning over the kings of the earth

[Stewartnz]

A thought on Revelation 17:8.
“...And the woman which you saw is that great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth."

This was prophecy, and history records one of the great fulfillments.
What follows is an example of the Church reigning "over the kings of the earth."

During the 1400's, an early reformer named John Huss journeyed to a Church Council in Constance [in what is today's Germany]. Huss carried with him a number of significant documents pledging his safe-conduct, but the most important of these was a safe-conduct from the Emperor Sigismund. A historian quotes this in full, “seeing it has become one of the great documents of history”. (From, History of Protestantism, J. Wylie.)


It was addressed "to all ecclesiastical and secular princes, etc., and to all our subjects."

"We recommend to you with a full affection, to all in general and to each in particular, the honorable Master John Huss, Bachelor in Divinity, and Master of Arts, the bearer of these presents, journeying from Bohemia to the Council of Constance, whom we have taken under our protection and safeguard, and under that of the Empire, enjoining you to receive him and treat him kindly, furnishing him with all that shall be necessary to speed and assure his journey, as well by water as by land, without taking anything from him or his at coming in or going out, for any sort of duties whatsoever; and calling on you to allow him to PASS, SOJOURN, STOP, AND RETURN FREELY AND SECURELY, providing him even, if necessary, with good passports, for the honor and respect of the Imperial Majesty.

Given at Spiers this 18th day of October of the year 1414, the third [year] of our reign in Hungary, and the fifth of that of the Romans."

Despite this pledge of safe-conduct from the Emperor, Huss was arrested about 3 weeks after he arrived in Constance. The historian continues,

“THE EMPEROR WAS TOLD THAT HE HAD NO RIGHT TO GRANT A SAFE CONDUCT IN THE CIRCUMSTANCES WITHOUT THE CONSENT OF THE COUNCIL; that the greater good of the Church must over-rule his promise; that the Council by its supreme authority could release him from his obligation, and that no formality of this sort could be suffered to obstruct the course of justice against a heretic. The promptings of honor and humanity were stifled in the emperor's breast by these reasonings. In the voice of the assembled Church he heard the voice of God, and delivered up John Huss to the will of his enemies.”

This same Council proceeded to make the decree, that no faith is to be kept with heretics.

The wording of this decree, was that "by no law, natural or divine, is it obligatory to keep faith with heretics, to the prejudice of the Catholic faith." (L’Enfant)

_ _ _ _ _

Psalm 15:1-4
“Lord, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?
He that walks uprightly, and works righteousness, and speaks the truth in his heart... he that swears [i.e. makes a promise] to his own hurt, and changeth not.”

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Don't ya just love how historical record testifies of the unerring accuracy of prophesy?!

 

[ricker]

A thought on Revelation 17:8.
“...And the woman which you saw is that great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth."

This was prophecy, and history records one of the great fulfillments.
What follows is an example of the Church reigning "over the kings of the earth."

During the 1400's, an early reformer named John Huss journeyed to a Church Council in Constance [in what is today's Germany]. Huss carried with him a number of significant documents pledging his safe-conduct, but the most important of these was a safe-conduct from the Emperor Sigismund. A historian quotes this in full, “seeing it has become one of the great documents of history”. (From, History of Protestantism, J. Wylie.)


It was addressed "to all ecclesiastical and secular princes, etc., and to all our subjects."

"We recommend to you with a full affection, to all in general and to each in particular, the honorable Master John Huss, Bachelor in Divinity, and Master of Arts, the bearer of these presents, journeying from Bohemia to the Council of Constance, whom we have taken under our protection and safeguard, and under that of the Empire, enjoining you to receive him and treat him kindly, furnishing him with all that shall be necessary to speed and assure his journey, as well by water as by land, without taking anything from him or his at coming in or going out, for any sort of duties whatsoever; and calling on you to allow him to PASS, SOJOURN, STOP, AND RETURN FREELY AND SECURELY, providing him even, if necessary, with good passports, for the honor and respect of the Imperial Majesty.

Given at Spiers this 18th day of October of the year 1414, the third [year] of our reign in Hungary, and the fifth of that of the Romans."

Despite this pledge of safe-conduct from the Emperor, Huss was arrested about 3 weeks after he arrived in Constance. The historian continues,

“THE EMPEROR WAS TOLD THAT HE HAD NO RIGHT TO GRANT A SAFE CONDUCT IN THE CIRCUMSTANCES WITHOUT THE CONSENT OF THE COUNCIL; that the greater good of the Church must over-rule his promise; that the Council by its supreme authority could release him from his obligation, and that no formality of this sort could be suffered to obstruct the course of justice against a heretic. The promptings of honor and humanity were stifled in the emperor's breast by these reasonings. In the voice of the assembled Church he heard the voice of God, and delivered up John Huss to the will of his enemies.”

This same Council proceeded to make the decree, that no faith is to be kept with heretics.

The wording of this decree, was that "by no law, natural or divine, is it obligatory to keep faith with heretics, to the prejudice of the Catholic faith." (L’Enfant)

_ _ _ _ _

Psalm 15:1-4
“Lord, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?
He that walks uprightly, and works righteousness, and speaks the truth in his heart... he that swears [i.e. makes a promise] to his own hurt, and changeth not.”

If you know anything about world history you know that many, many wars were waged by the church/states of history against each other. Many were instigated by protestant countries against Catholics for religious reasons (and visa versa). Countless beheadings were carried out by protestants against the heretic Catholics. Calvanists were against Episcopal (church of England). Puritans were against Rome, etc.. The RC church had a counter-reformation movement precipitated my Luther and his followers. There was no seperation of church and state anywhere.

John Huss lead a national Czech revolt

You may pick one incident in history and connect it to a ambiguous verse in Revelation if it fits your ideology, but I take it with a grain of salt.

 

[k4c]

If you know anything about world history you know that many, many wars were waged by the church/states of history against each other. Many were instigated by protestant countries against Catholics for religious reasons (and visa versa). Countless beheadings were carried out by protestants against the heretic Catholics. Calvanists were against Episcopal (church of England). Puritans were against Rome, etc.. The RC church had a counter-reformation movement precipitated my Luther and his followers. There was no seperation of church and state anywhere.

John Huss lead a national Czech revolt

You may pick one incident in history and connect it to a ambiguous verse in Revelation if it fits your ideology, but I take it with a grain of salt.

The big picture fits like a glove. God's word is true and trust worthy beyond a reasonable doubt. If one steps back and looks at the big picture in light of Scripture and still can't see then that person just don't wanna see.

If you're waiting for something else, it just ain't gonna happen.

 

[ricker]

The big picture fits like a glove. God's word is true and trust worthy beyond a reasonable doubt. If one steps back and looks at the big picture in light of Scripture and still can't see then that person just don't wanna see.

If you're waiting for something else, it just ain't gonna happen.

All I am saying is I could find instances where Protestant oppression was as obvious as what was quoted. That said, I am not a defender of RC doctrine, just a person interested in history.

I am dubious of many so called interpretations of the book of Revelation, however.

 

[Stewartnz]

If you know anything about world history you know that many, many wars were waged by the church/states of history against each other. Many were instigated by protestant countries against Catholics for religious reasons (and visa versa). Countless beheadings were carried out by protestants against the heretic Catholics. Calvanists were against Episcopal (church of England). Puritans were against Rome, etc.. The RC church had a counter-reformation movement precipitated my Luther and his followers. There was no seperation of church and state anywhere.

John Huss lead a national Czech revolt

You may pick one incident in history and connect it to a ambiguous verse in Revelation if it fits your ideology, but I take it with a grain of salt.

Ricker, I am curious about your comment that John Huss led a national Czech revolt. Please could you give some details about this?

________
Stewart.

 

[ricker]

Ricker, I am curious about your comment that John Huss led a national Czech revolt. Please could you give some details about this?

________
Stewart.

I don't know much about it , but it is a direct quote from the book I am currrently reading, which is "A history of the english speaking peoples, volume 2", by Winston S. Churchill. (pg. 54)

 

[Stryder06]

The atrocities carried out by the Catholic church out weigh whatever "persecution" protestants may have committed, not saying that killing by the hands of a protestant was ok, just that the protestant church was never "drunk with the blood of the saints"

YouTube - Ex Catholic Priest Exposes The Vatican Inquisition and Antichrist Part 1

 

[ricker]

The atrocities carried out by the Catholic church out weigh whatever "persecution" protestants may have committed, not saying that killing by the hands of a protestant was ok, just that the protestant church was never "drunk with the blood of the saints"
quote]

You are probably correct. I was just pointing out that using a story of John Huss and a couple quotes does not necessarily in itself show a Revelation verse fulfilled. Those were different times, and stories and quotes could be found that would seem to say the Anglican church, for example, was trampling down all opposition by any means possible and claiming all others to be heretics.

That some awful things were done by the Catholic church, I do not deny.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

The atrocities carried out by the Catholic church out weigh whatever "persecution" protestants may have committed, not saying that killing by the hands of a protestant was ok, just that the protestant church was never "drunk with the blood of the saints"
quote]

You are probably correct. I was just pointing out that using a story of John Huss and a couple quotes does not necessarily in itself show a Revelation verse fulfilled. Those were different times, and stories and quotes could be found that would seem to say the Anglican church, for example, was trampling down all opposition by any means possible and claiming all others to be heretics.

That some awful things were done by the Catholic church, I do not deny.

If you study out all the prophesy's related to the prosecutor of God's people, the beast power of Revelation, the woman that sits on seven hills, it can be none other than the Papacy. Some other churches may fulfil some of the prophesy's but only one fulfils them all... in spades.

 

[OntheDL]

How about this?

'To go to Canossa'

In the January of 1077, Henry IV stood in bare foot in the snow out side of the castle of Canossa for 3 days, pleading for the mercy of Pope Gregory VII who stayed as a guest, to withdraw the excommunication against him.

 

[Stewartnz]

How about this?

'To go to Canossa'

In the January of 1077, Henry IV stood in bare foot in the snow out side of the castle of Canossa for 3 days, pleading for the mercy of Pope Gregory VII who stayed as a guest, to withdraw the excommunication against him.

Thank you! This is another great event showing the church's dominance over the men of state. (Again it is set within the 1260 years of Papal dominance.)

To add a little more to the story, I quote from "The Makers of Modern Rome" by Oliphant, p.272-3. This is after Henry's interview with Pope Gregory:

"Henry went forth wroth and sore, humiliated but not humbled, and thinking of nothing so much as how to return to Gregory the shame he had himself suffered. And [Pope] Gregory remained in his stronghold as little convinced of any advantage attained, as he had been of Henry's repentance. [Gregory] is said to have answered the Saxon envoys who reproached him with his leniency, by a grim reassurance which is almost cynical. "He goes back worse than he came,"...

Henry was playing [maneuvering] as he stood bearefooted in the snow, to obtain the absolution which was his only chance for [retaining power in] Germany."

 

[stinsonmarri]

RC:

As I have said again and again what we once believe was wrong and you need to follow the Bible and EGW who made changes later on in her life. Please read:

And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. Rev 17:18

And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. Rev 17:1-3

And both these kings' hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed. And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every mighty one and shall speak marvellous things against Elohim of the mighty ones, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. Neither shall he regard of the Almighty Ones of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any mighty one: for he shall magnify himself above all. But in his estate shall he honour the mighty one of forces: and a mighty one whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant Dan 11:27, 36-38

And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars forever and ever. But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river. And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth forever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Yahweh, what shall be the end of these things? And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Dan 12:3-8, 11

But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. Rev 11:2-7

How shall we search the Scriptures in order to understand what they teach? We should come to the investigation of Elohim’s word with a contrite heart, a teachable and prayerful spirit. We are not to think, as did the Jews, that our own ideas and opinions are infallible; nor with the papists, that certain individuals are the sole guardians of truth and knowledge, that men have no right to search the Scriptures for themselves, but must accept the explanations given by the fathers of the church. We should not study the Bible for the purpose of sustaining our preconceived opinions, but with the single object of learning what Elohim has said. TM 105

Some have feared that if in even a single point they acknowledge themselves in error, other minds would be led to doubt the whole theory of truth. Therefore they have felt that investigation should not be permitted, that it would tend to dissension and disunion. But if such is to be the result of investigation, the sooner it comes the better. If there are those whose faith in Elohim’s word will not stand the test of an investigation of the Scriptures, the sooner they are revealed the better; for then the way will be opened to show them their error. We cannot hold that a position once taken, an idea once advocated, is not, under any circumstances, to be relinquished. There is but One who is infallible--He who is the way, the truth, and the life. TM 105

Those who allow prejudice to bar the mind against the reception of truth cannot receive the divine enlightenment. Yet, when a view of Scripture is presented, many do not ask, Is it true--in harmony with Elohim’s word? but, By whom is it advocated? and unless it comes through the very channel that pleases them, they do not accept it. So thoroughly satisfied are they with their own ideas that they will not examine the Scripture evidence with a desire to learn, but refuse to be interested, merely because of their prejudices. TM 105, 106

There is need of a much closer study of the word of Elohim; especially should Daniel and the Revelation have attention as never before in the history of our work. We may have less to say in some lines, in regard to the Roman power and the papacy; but we should call attention to what the prophets and apostles have written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit of Elohim. The Holy Spirit has so shaped matters, both in the giving of the prophecy and in the events portrayed, as to teach that the human agent is to be kept out of sight, hid in Yashua and that Yahweh Elohim of heaven and His law are to be exalted. Read the book of Daniel. Call up, point by point, the history of the kingdoms there represented. Behold statesmen, councils, powerful armies, and see how Elohim wrought to abase the pride of men, and lay human glory in the dust. TM 112

As a Biblical Historian and a true believer in the Bible, history, EGW and the original faith of our pioneers I must speak out. First let me say Jerome Huss play a major role to stand up against the Roman Catholic Church for truth. However, we must go further back in time when the Catholic Church was a stout fellow on the head of the beast in Dan 7:8 to understand that history repeats itself and each time it repeats it is worst than before.

A Jesuit priest set the tone for what will soon take place again and it is already in the making now with the Middle East crisis. Arian is his name and he did not believe in the Divinity of Yashua which cause Constantine to call the first Catholic meeting called the Nicene Creed. It was at this meeting that they agreed in both the humanity and Divinity of Yashua. In this thought there was nothing wrong but the problem was the holy trinity that I oppose but cannot speak about on this forum. If any would care to write to my email I will present the facts and truth but I must respect the policies of this forum.

Moving on Arian preached to three uprising kingdoms his message that almost tumble the power of the RCC. (See Arianism from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) The Vandals, Ostrogoths and Heruli all accepted the Arian faith and was completely exterminated by the RCC exactly according the Bible.
Secondly we must go further back to see why Jerusalem is the city that has alway play a major role in the Bible. Jerusalem have been desolated twice in history first during the Bible time by Nebuchadnezzar (2Ch 36:21, Isa 1:7 3:26; Jer 6:8; 7:34; 9:11;Dan 9:17) and the second time predicted by the OT prophets and Yashua that happen in AD 70. (Eze 6:14; Zech 7:14; Matt 23:38; Luke 13:35) The final destruction of Jerusalem is also predicted as well by the OT, NT and once again Yashua. (Isa 13:6-9; Mal 2:11; Dan 9:27; 11:31; 12:11; Matt 24:15; Mark 13:14; Rev 17:16; 18:19)

I will repeat this again to all you must follow history that goes along with the Bible they are partners! Satan reads the Bible and attempt to stop the chronological events that prophecy states clearly that will take place. He tried with Arianism to try to prevent RCC into becoming the largest powerful church but Yahweh already knew this and show carefully how the Pope would become one of the end time dominant foes. Satan then invented Islam that caused a thorn in Catholicism and the furthering of the true gospel in all the world but it would be stopped by Elohim at the appointed time which is now. The papacy have always felt that by being both the false Father and Son on earth that he should rule Jerusalem and they both will be destroyed along with the rebuilt Temple by the beast/man. Yahweh would not allow this until the end time because Jerusalem lost favor with Elohim in the stoning of Stephen for the last and final time. That is why John stated that He saw a New Jerusalem that the Savior promise and prepare for His true saints.

Now the final history again two evil foes will fight once again the RCC has a church because she has no empire only the kings still worship her as the one and only top religion of Christianity. The Protestants people live in countries that all are her puppets because she pulls the strings and she is the only church that has an embassy and is a part of the UN! She, RCC, is both the Gentile and the harlot. Now she cannot be riding the beast and be the beast of course not this man was once like Arian a part of RCC. Something is going to make him hate her and what RCC claims she believes and he will also turn his back on Elohim. He will become partners with Satan who will give him power over his angels and his kingdom. Folks Satan has never been king of this earth only the prince of the air! Satan sinned way before man did and was kicked out and Yahweh allowed him somewhere in the universe to live (outer space is the bottomless pit). Before he can go after the saints of the Almighty, the beast must rid and show up his newly hated opponent and why he change allegiance from the Almighty Ones.

In closing Rev17:8 has nothing to do with Jerome Huss but the end time which include the papacy (Gentile and harlot) and the beast/man (a former loyal head leader with RCC) who will turn against RCC because of the papacy lies and deceptions. The beast and the Papacy war is Armageddon because no one will even remotely even fire or have the time to fire at Yashau. When the Savior return with His host of angels all men on earth are taken immediately the beast/man and the false prophet (USA) destroy in the lake of fire. The rest of the beast/man's army is instantly killed and their flesh eaten by bird. (Read Revelation Chapter 19)

Blessings,
stinsonmarri

 

[ricker]

How about this?

'To go to Canossa'

In the January of 1077, Henry IV stood in bare foot in the snow out side of the castle of Canossa for 3 days, pleading for the mercy of Pope Gregory VII who stayed as a guest, to withdraw the excommunication against him.

Which "Henry 1V" are we speaking of? Both King Henry 1V of England, and later, King Henry 1V of France, weren't born until hundreds of years after 1077. Was there a King Henry 1V of Germany or somewhere else?

Perhaps there is someone I have missed in my studies, as I usually concentrate on American history. I don't know it all, and enjoy learning.

 

[ricker]

Thank you! This is another great event showing the church's dominance over the men of state.

There was no seperation of church and state in those times! You take situations in the past and view them with your modern perspective without taking into account how things were back then. Even in Protestant countries after the Reformation church attendence was often mandated by the state. The fact that any particular church dominated what happened in state business was not a unique situation.

 

[stinsonmarri]

There was no seperation of church and state in those times! You take situations in the past and view them with your modern perspective without taking into account how things were back then. Even in Protestant countries after the Reformation church attendence was often mandated by the state. The fact that any particular church dominated what happened in state business was not a unique situation.

Ricker:

I would like to inform you that every since Nimrod man has never had a separate government religion and state. Even today all governments have a state or government religion. USA main state religion is Protestant that's why they alway have a minister that is not Catholic pray at the inauguration. And you will always find even in our government those who hold dear the so call state religion as the Republican Party does. They will fight, kill or murder, despise, and hate others that do not believe the way they do. All of the wars from beginning of time even today is base on religion differences it is a part of man's mechanism that was created in him by the Almighty Ones. We are like the Most High and must believe in something even atheism is a belief system.

The Bible does not need anyone to interpret what it provides instead only to understand it through history by the Holy Spirit!

Blessings,
stinsonmarri

 

[ricker]

Ricker:

I would like to inform you that every since Nimrod man has never had a separate government religion and state. Even today all governments have a state or government religion. USA main state religion is Protestant that's why they alway have a minister that is not Catholic pray at the inauguration. And you will always find even in our government those who hold dear the so call state religion as the Republican Party does. They will fight, kill or murder, despise, and hate others that do not believe the way they do. All of the wars from beginning of time even today is base on religion differences it is a part of man's mechanism that was created in him by the Almighty Ones. We are like the Most High and must believe in something even atheism is a belief system.

The Bible does not need anyone to interpret what it provides instead only to understand it through history by the Holy Spirit!

Blessings,
stinsonmarri

Thank you. I agree with most of this. I was addressing the post of Stewartnz who seemed to think that church influence in state affairs in the 11th century was noteworthy.

 

[Stewartnz]

Which "Henry 1V" are we speaking of? Both King Henry 1V of England, and later, King Henry 1V of France, weren't born until hundreds of years after 1077. Was there a King Henry 1V of Germany or somewhere else?

Perhaps there is someone I have missed in my studies, as I usually concentrate on American history. I don't know it all, and enjoy learning.

Hello Ricker, the Henry referred to is commented on in the site:
Henry IV, Holy Roman Emperor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Are you able to give me a brief idea of your view regarding the 1260 days?
The "1260 years" is commonly referred to in Adventist circles, but it appears that you do not share the SDA view on this.

 

[ricker]

Hello Ricker, the Henry referred to is commented on in the site:
Henry IV, Holy Roman Emperor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Are you able to give me a brief idea of your view regarding the 1260 days?
The "1260 years" is commonly referred to in Adventist circles, but it appears that you do not share the SDA view on this.

Thanks, I had read a lot about Henry 1V of England and some about Henry 1V of France, but had not heard of Henry 1V of Rome. Why in the world would an emperer of Rome ever seek the favor of a Pope?

Have I said anything about the 1260 years?

Since apparently you want to know my personal thoughts about Daniel and Revelation, I will tell you I don't concern myself with research and debates on such matters, as I believe the simple Gospel of our Lord has nothing to do with such things. Just make sure your historical references are accurate.

 

[stinsonmarri]

Ricker:

Thanks! Can you tell me what part of what I wrote you don't believe?

stinsonmarri