Rev 13 and Rev 14 "mark of the beast" details everyone can see

[SabbathBlessings]

but doesnt the text say the were worshipping the image of the beast? which the inhabitants were to told to build by the 2nd beast?

I do not see this as past context:

Revelation 14:9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

 

[Sheila Davis]

Everyone has the right to “now” but there will be a time in the future where Sunday worship will be mandated and for those who keep the commandments of God, God’s true day of worship will not be able to buy or sell.


I agree with you and this is what its going to come down to. Do we obey man’s law or God’s law? There is no commandment for Sunday-keeping in God’s law but there is for Sabbath keeping which was written by the finger of God. Exodus 20:8-11 and predicted in scripture would be changed, not by God. Daniel 7:25. Do we obey man and keep traditions over God’s commandments and this is the final question everyone will have to answer. Jesus in His own words told us to obey God’s commandments over traditions and if one keeps traditions over the commandments, they are worshipping in vain Matthew 15:3-9. Thats what the end times is about, who do we worship. Do we obey God and His authority or mans?

This is what Revelation 13 and 14 is about.

Revelation 14:6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.” This is a direct reference to the 4th commandment Exodus 20:8-11

8 And another angel followed, saying, “Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”
Jesus is calling out of Babylon and the man-made traditions

9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

God saints keep God’s commandments including the 4th commandment that God told us to Remember.

I agree the vaccine has nothing to do with it other than the way the government handled the situation and the precedent it is setting against our constitutional rights.
God bless!

Isn't the Beast and his Antichrist supposed to persecute Christians? Revelation chapter 2 _ second Timothy 3:12. A Sunday mandate is supporting the worship of God, whether it's on the Sabbath or not. And there are only two denominations that actually worship on the Sabbath, and Judaism _ all other churches already worship on a Sunday and have been for almost a thousand years. No I just don't see it.

I don't tell a person or I try not to tell anyone that this is what's going to happen or that is what's going to happen as a fact because as an absolute no one knows what the mark of the beast is. Some believe as you, some believe it's in the mind, some believe it's a tattoo, some believe it implants. What I do is say " I believe" and give my reasons for believing it.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Isn't the Beast and his Antichrist supposed to persecute Christians? Revelation chapter 2 _ second Timothy 3:12. A Sunday mandate is supporting the worship of God, whether it's on the Sabbath or not..

According to Jesus, in His own words, when we obey mans traditions over God’s commandment we worship in vain. Matthew 15:3-9 There is no Sunday keeping commandment, this is a tradition of man that replaced for the majority of people God’s true day of worship which is Sabbath-keeping and a commandment of God written by the finger of God! Exodus 20:8-11 We should always obey God on His terms, this is His authority, not mans, which had led many people to break one of God’s commandments. According to James you break one commandment you break them all James 2:10-12 and sin is breaking the law of God. 1 John 3:4. Romans 7:7, Romans 3:20. We should worship God in Truth and Spirit- His will, not ours.

This is what the 3 angles message Revelation 14 is about- coming out of Babylon with our man-made traditions and worshipping the Creator , in truth and spirit.

God’s saints keep the commandments of God Revelation 14:12 The Sabbath is a commandment of God written by God, spoken by God!

God bless!

 

[Freth]

but doesnt the text say the were worshipping the image of the beast? which the inhabitants were to told to build by the 2nd beast?

In Daniel 3, we see Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego face death head on because they wouldn't worship the golden image. This is a physical story and a physical image.

The difference between the story in Daniel and the events surrounding the image of the beast in Revelation is that they have transitioned from the physical to the spiritual.

Mystery Babylon. Babylon has long since been destroyed, so it has to be referring to a spiritual Babylon. Likewise, the image of the beast is not a physical graven image.

Revelation 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.​

The earth beast has power to give life to the the image of the sea beast (power given him by the dragon; he speaks like a dragon). The image is what the sea beast has put forth as its doctrine, its blueprint for worship, which is contrary to the word of God. Apostasy.

The sea beast receives a deadly wound, which will be healed, and all the world will wonder after the beast; the beast and its image is what the world is wondering after (Revelation 13:3). The earth beast gives life to the sea beast's image; providing healing to the deadly wound. It brings to prominence an almost universal acceptance of his apostasy.

The consequences of not worshiping the beast and his image (apostasy) is not being able to buy and sell (Revelation 13:17), and eventually a death decree (Revelation 13:15).

Since worship is the central issue, the worship day has to be a point of contention between God and Satan that comes to fruition in the last days, when liberty of conscience is taken away by law, so that you can't worship God as He specified, on the day He specified.

Daniel 7:25; He would think to change times and laws (of God). In these end times, there is a universally accepted worship day that is in direct opposition to the commandment of God. It is universally accepted, even though there is no scriptural support for it.

 

[BobRyan]

I am at a loss, what are the Sunday laws? There was a blue law here in the states - that was partially enforced until the mid-60s or so. Where the only thing you could buy was food. Alcoholic beverages at 12. But that type of law would not prohibit buying, selling, and trading based on whether one believes or not - again based on belief or disbelief how would they know whether one was a believer or not?
I have been trying for years, since the nineties to understand Pastor Murry's concept of the mark of the beast is in the mind - what one thinks / what one does - for me never adds up how. Thank you

I am not saying in this thread or in the OP that Rev 13 or 14 get to specifics about what day one chooses to worship on. Rev 14:7 does quote directly from the 4th commandment (Ex 20:11) and Rev 13 does show us that the sin of a false form of worship (for example worshipping the Rev 13 image, or the Rev 13 beast) is involved. Even in the NT "sin is transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4

As for your question -- There is an extremely interesting legal history of Sunday legislation in the U.S.

History of Sunday Laws in America
Blue law - Wikipedia
Blue laws in the United States - Wikipedia


From the first link above:

As the decades dawned toward the Twentieth Century, a new twist in Sunday legislation appeared. Instead of calling it a law "in protection of the Lord's Day," it was now called a civil law "in protection of the rights of the workingman," and was declared to be "a legitimate exercise of the police power of the State."

In a 1961 case in which a Sunday law was tacitly approved by the Supreme Court, Chief Justice Earl Warren stated that Sunday Laws would always remain a violation of the First Amendment whenever it was demonstrated that their objective was "to use the State's coercive power to aid religion." (McGowan v. Maryland, 366 U.S. 420, 1961).

The Supreme Court of the United States held in its landmark case, McGowan v. Maryland (1961), that Maryland's blue laws violated neither the Free Exercise Clause nor the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.[34] It approved the state's blue law restricting commercial activities on Sunday, noting that while such laws originated to encourage attendance at Christian churches, the contemporary Maryland laws were intended to serve "to provide a uniform day of rest for all citizens" on a secular basis and to promote the secular values of "health, safety, recreation, and general well-being" through a common day of rest. That this day coincides with Christian Sabbath is not a bar to the state's secular goals; it neither reduces its effectiveness for secular purposes nor prevents adherents of other religions from observing their own holy days.[35]

McGowan was but one of four Sunday closing cases decided together by the Court in May of 1961.

· In Gallagher v. Crown Kosher Super Market of Mass., Inc.,[36] the Court ruled against a Kosher deli that closed on Saturday but was open on Sunday.

· The other two cases were Braunfeld v. Brown, [37]

· and Two Guys from Harrison vs. McGinley.[38][39]

Chief Justice Earl Warren declared that "the State seeks to set one day apart from all others as a day of rest, repose, recreation and tranquility--a day which all members of the family and community have the opportunity to spend and enjoy together, a day on which there exists relative quiet and disassociation from the everyday intensity of commercial activities, a day on which people may visit friends and relative who are not available during working days."[2]​

From the second link above

In March 2006, Texas judges upheld the state blue law that requires car dealerships to close either Saturday or Sunday each weekend.[40]​

==========================

 

[BobRyan]

but doesnt the text say the were worshipping the image of the beast? which the inhabitants were to told to build by the 2nd beast?

Agreed. The problem being mentioned in Rev 13 and 14 regarding the mark of the beast and laws demanding conformity , limiting buying and selling, etc have not occurred.

So for example we have had laws limiting buying or selling on Sunday but that is not what Rev 13 specifies. It says that failure to comply with the new law means "no buying or selling at all" not just "on Sunday" - for those in violation of the Law. It also says violators are to be "put to death" in Rev 13.

As for the sabbath day, or sunday worship, if that was the case then the mark of the beast has been all over the place for centuries.

agreed - Rev 13 and 14 are talking about a very unique situation in the future -- not what we have today or have had in the past.

But for clarity -- the beast cannot "make up new laws for God to enforce". In other words he can't do something like"
Beast says - "step across this line... now God you must say 'I declare it a sin to step across that line that the beast just drew".

Rather sin remains what it has always been as we see in 1 John 3:4

 

[BobRyan]

Does Sunday worship only become the mark if buying or selling is involved? a bit hard to imagine.

When we look at Rev 13 and Rev 14 we don't see "Sunday worship" mentioned. What we see is that in the future we have this --

1. the dark ages of Rev 12
2. The two beasts of Rev 13
3. A point where signs and wonders are being done and all the world is "bought in"
4. A law regarding worship - where violation of it means the total loss of ability to buy or sell - not merely "on Sunday".
5. The law strengthened to the point of death penalty for violation of it.

 

[BobRyan]

There is an extremely interesting legal history of Sunday legislation in the U.S.

History of Sunday Laws in America
Blue law - Wikipedia
Blue laws in the United States - Wikipedia

The early churches accepted the first day worship on a Sunday which was made into LAW by Constantine and passed it down from generation to generation. So from my point of view - what you call the Sunday Law has already been in effect for centuries.
March 7, 321: How Sunday Became the Christian Day of Rest - History and Headlines

There are the Seventh-day Adventist and the Sabbatarians _ both congregate and worship on the Sabbath. One can always worship alone on on the Sabbath or find others who feel as they do and worship together which is simply prayer and praise and still attend Sunday service.

I believe there will be a one world government ruled by the beast and his Antichrist - and this government will mandate microchipping _ seemingly for a good cause. (Nothing to do with the coronavirus vaccine) I believe they will set up the system of using the micro chip which will be able to track any individual who has it.

Sunday Laws (legal legislation examples in America) as given above - do exist and have existed in the past in much stricter form as that first link above shows.

1. There are "every Sabbath" worship services with gospel preaching to both gentiles and jews in Act 18:4 - but no "every week-day-1" or "every sunday" worship services mentioned by any NT writer. So it could not be a "law" being enforce in any way by them, as they don't even mention the practice at all in the NT.

2. You are of course correct that someone could choose to keep Sabbath as a holy day set apart for God - and also attend worship services on Sunday. I have done that for a number of years in the past.

3. I agree that the Rev 13 and 14 topic has nothing to do with COVID.

4. Rev 13 does not say that "the technology to monitor people" is a sin. No matter if it is paper, or chips, or neighbors reporting on neighbors.

5. I do agree that they will have some physical way to know if someone is allowed to "buy or sell" - or they could not enforce what Rev 13 says they end up doing. But the mechanism of paper or chip or some registry or ... is not the "sin". the sin is they enforce whatever worship practice is identified in Rev 13 that God does not approve of.

 

[Sheila Davis]

According to Jesus, in His own words, when we obey mans traditions over God’s commandment we worship in vain. Matthew 15:3-9 There is no Sunday keeping commandment, this is a tradition of man that replaced for the majority of people God’s true day of worship which is Sabbath-keeping and a commandment of God written by the finger of God! Exodus 20:8-11 We should always obey God on His terms, this is His authority, not mans, which had led many people to break one of God’s commandments. According to James you break one commandment you break them all James 2:10-12 and sin is breaking the law of God. 1 John 3:4. Romans 7:7, Romans 3:20. We should worship God in Truth and Spirit- His will, not ours.

This is what the 3 angles message Revelation 14 is about- coming out of Babylon with our man-made traditions and worshipping the Creator , in truth and spirit.

God’s saints keep the commandments of God Revelation 14:12 The Sabbath is a commandment of God written by God, spoken by God!

God bless!

May God bless you too.
I am aware of what Jesus _ said I am aware that the Ten Commandments says remember the Sabbath and keep it holy _ I am aware that for centuries the Christian churches has not been observing the Sabbath except the Sabbatarians and The Latter Day Saints for the past few decades. You didn't answer my last question - but that's okay. Thank you for the discussion and may blessings continue to be upon you.

 

[Sheila Davis]

There is an extremely interesting legal history of Sunday legislation in the U.S.

History of Sunday Laws in America
Blue law - Wikipedia
Blue laws in the United States - Wikipedia




Sunday Laws (legal legislation examples in America) as given above - do exist and have existed in the past in much stricter form as that first link above shows.

1. There are "every Sabbath" worship services with gospel preaching to both gentiles and jews in Act 18:4 - but no "every week-day-1" or "every sunday" worship services mentioned by any NT writer. So it could not be a "law" being enforce in any way by them, as they don't even mention the practice at all in the NT.

Nor did I say it was - Constantine is the one who changed the Sabbath and made it law and the church accepted. A person can worship God any day of the week and every day of the week even if it's in the privacy of their own home because institutions of today are not set up as such.

2. You are of course correct that someone could choose to keep Sabbath as a holy day set apart for God - and also attend worship services on Sunday. I have done that for a number of years in the past.

3. I agree that the Rev 13 and 14 topic has nothing to do with COVID.

4. Rev 13 does not say that "the technology to monitor people" is a sin. No matter if it is paper, or chips, or neighbors reporting on neighbors.

I did not say the Revelation 13 says technology to monitor people was a sin.


5. I do agree that they will have some physical way to know if someone is allowed to "buy or sell" - or they could not enforce what Rev 13 says they end up doing. But the mechanism of paper or chip or some registry or ... is not the "sin". the sin is they enforce whatever worship practice is identified in Rev 13 that God does not approve of.

I did not say that the computer chip, the microchip, whatever paper you mean, or any other mechanism was a sin. What I said was I believe the microchip will be used as the mark of the beast.
From my understanding those who accept the mark of the beast will be servants of the beast and not servants of God.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

May God bless you too.
I am aware of what Jesus _ said I am aware that the Ten Commandments says remember the Sabbath and keep it holy _ I am aware that for centuries the Christian churches has not been observing the Sabbath except the Sabbatarians and The Latter Day Saints for the past few decades. You didn't answer my last question - but that's okay. Thank you for the discussion and may blessings continue to be upon you.

I am not aware that the LDS church keeps the Sabbath. According to a quick google search they go to church on Sunday.

You asked if Sunday worship is not worshipping God. I think it is demonstrated throughout the Bible that we should obey God period. There is no scripture telling us to keep Sunday as a holy day or that we can keep only some of God’s laws. God’s holy day is the seventh day Sabbath Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13 and we are to follow the example that God left for us from the very beginning. Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:8-11 and the example that Jesus left who obeyed the commandments including the Sabbath. Luke 4:16, John 15:10. I do think Jesus answers your question though- Matthew 15:3-9

I think there are many well-intended people who worship on Sunday and walking in the light they have. Once we know the truth, whether it is about the Sabbath or any other truth in scripture, we should walk in the light.

God bless!

 

[BobRyan]

I did not say that the computer chip, the microchip, whatever paper you mean, or any other mechanism was a sin. What I said was I believe the microchip will be used as the mark of the beast.
From my understanding those who accept the mark of the beast will be servants of the beast and not servants of God.

So you are saying that in your view it is not just that whatever they use to identify someone as being in compliance with the new law - is the mark, but very specifically that "said mark" - is going to be chip technology?.

Is that really any different from saying "the mark will be a check box filled in" on a specific form?

 

[BobRyan]

I am not aware that the LDS church keeps the Sabbath. According to a quick google search they go to church on Sunday.

True - but I think they call it Sabbath.

 

[BobRyan]

Isn't the Beast and his Antichrist supposed to persecute Christians? Revelation chapter 2 _ second Timothy 3:12.

Would you agree that none of those chapters use the term "antichrist"? In any case I think we do agree with the fact that for many centuries Christians have been persecuted and there is more persecution coming in the future.

A Sunday mandate is supporting the worship of God, whether it's on the Sabbath or not. And there are only two denominations that actually worship on the Sabbath, and Judaism

1. Seventh-day Baptist
2. Seventh-day Church of God
3. Seventh-day Adventist
4. Messianic Churches
a few hundred others that @Hark has identified

.... and Judaism

_ all other churches already worship on a Sunday and have been for almost a thousand years.

agreed. And they don't have the mark of the beast. See the OP - we are just sticking with the details in those chapters as the primary focus.

I don't tell a person or I try not to tell anyone that this is what's going to happen or that is what's going to happen as a fact

But you would agree I suppose that there is the entire topic of "eschatology" dealing with "last things" end-time-events and many many denominations do have some view of it.

What I do is say " I believe" and give my reasons for believing it.

amen to that.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

May God bless you too.
I am aware of what Jesus _ said I am aware that the Ten Commandments says remember the Sabbath and keep it holy _ I am aware that for centuries the Christian churches has not been observing the Sabbath except the Sabbatarians and The Latter Day Saints for the past few decades. You didn't answer my last question - but that's okay. Thank you for the discussion and may blessings continue to be upon you.

You may want to consider that according to the biblical and historical records that Gods' people have always kept the Sabbath unbroken from the days of Jesus and the Apostles to the early disciples all through time to this present day. If you would like the evidence please let me know as I would be happy to post it.

 

[Sheila Davis]

I am not aware that the LDS church keeps the Sabbath. According to a quick google search they go to church on Sunday.

You asked if Sunday worship is not worshipping God. I think it is demonstrated throughout the Bible that we should obey God period. There is no scripture telling us to keep Sunday as a holy day or that we can keep only some of God’s laws. God’s holy day is the seventh day Sabbath Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13 and we are to follow the example that God left for us from the very beginning. Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:8-11 and the example that Jesus left who obeyed the commandments including the Sabbath. Luke 4:16, John 15:10. I do think Jesus answers your question though- Matthew 15:3-9

I think there are many well-intended people who worship on Sunday and walking in the light they have. Once we know the truth, whether it is about the Sabbath or any other truth in scripture, we should walk in the light.

God bless!

My mistake in one of my other replies to you I named the correct Church. I was not intending to say Latter Day Saints but 7-Day Adventist.

I agree concerning worshiping on the Sabbath. From time to time I attend Sabbath services with the Seventh Day Adventist. What it truly the 7th day Sabbath - God said a day of rest - not to do any work of any kind. He also said in the commandments to remember the Sabbath and keep it holy. He knew the Sabbath would be lost. How does one keep a day holy - to keep it dedicated, sacred, consecrated to God. And all he ask for is one day out of 7. Everyday should be dedicated to God.
And the sad thing is these days one goes to church service for an hour or hour and a half and feel they've praised him. Before the 1980s church services lasted; three to three-and-a-half hours then came back later that evening for another hour or two.
Blessings

 

[Gary O']

I do agree that they will have some physical way to know if someone is allowed to "buy or sell" - or they could not enforce what Rev 13 says they end up doing. But the mechanism of paper or chip or some registry or ... is not the "sin". the sin is they enforce whatever worship practice is identified in Rev 13 that God does not approve of.

That.....is HUGE

 

[LoveGodsWord]

My mistake in one of my other replies to you I named the correct Church. I was not intending to say Latter Day Saints but 7-Day Adventist.

I agree concerning worshiping on the Sabbath. From time to time I attend Sabbath services with the Seventh Day Adventist. What it truly the 7th day Sabbath - God said a day of rest - not to do any work of any kind. He also said in the commandments to remember the Sabbath and keep it holy. He knew the Sabbath would be lost. How does one keep a day holy - to keep it dedicated, sacred, consecrated to God. And all he ask for is one day out of 7. Everyday should be dedicated to God.
And the sad thing is these days one goes to church service for an hour or hour and a half and feel they've praised him. Before the 1980s church services lasted; three to three-and-a-half hours then came back later that evening for another hour or two.
Blessings

The only biblical definition of God's 4th commandment "seventh day" Sabbath is the "seventh day" of the week found inside God's 4th commandment where it says Exodus 20:10 [10], But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God. See also Genesis 2:1-3. The Sabbath day according to the bible is a full day starting sunset and finishing sunset according to God's time (Genesis 1:1-5). This means that Gods' 4th commandment starts sunset Friday evening to Saturday sunset evening our time.

God bless

 

[LoveGodsWord]

That.....is HUGE

The parallel is in Daniel 2 when King Nebuchadnezzar made a man-made golden image and commanded all people everywhere to bow down and worship it and any one who did not worship was the be thrown into the fiery furnace.

 

[BobRyan]

I agree concerning worshiping on the Sabbath. From time to time I attend Sabbath services with the Seventh Day Adventist. What it truly the 7th day Sabbath - God said a day of rest - not to do any work of any kind. He also said in the commandments to remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.

He knew the Sabbath would be lost. How does one keep a day holy - to keep it dedicated, sacred, consecrated to God. And all he ask for is one day out of 7.

He also says it "is a day of holy convocation" Lev 23:3
He says that for all eternity after the cross - in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23
He says it was "made for mankind not mankind made for the Sabbath" which speaks to the "making" of both - that we see in Gen 2:1-3
He says it is a day for setting aside all secular activity Is 58:13

Everyday should be dedicated to God.

only in a sense.... God does not consider the Sabbath "dedicated to God" if it is your day for running errands, mowing the law, doing your taxes. However on work days where all that work must be done - we still dedicate our lives to God no matter that "doing taxes" is not a form of dedicated undistracted worship.