Retribution, Revenge, Republicans...

[ThatRobGuy]

You have a keen sense of observation. Though sometimes reading your detailed, organized posts can leave me exhausted. That might just be me tho.

I'm a fast typist and I like to type stuff other than C# code every once in a while lol
(you're not the first person who's given the "your posts are so long" feedback )

But credit where it's due, at least you don't snip one or two sentences out of context and completely ignore the rest like some others on here do.

 

[Brihaha]

I'm a fast typist and I like to type stuff other than C# code every once in a while lol
(you're not the first person who's given the "your posts are so long" feedback )

But credit where it's due, at least you don't snip one or two sentences out of context and completely ignore the rest like some others on here do.

I respect your open mind. I think our minds are akin to parachutes in that they only work properly when they're open. And I can relate with you because I don't identify with either party's full agenda. There is freedom to believe in fiscal responsibility and rights for minorities. And room to believe in the right to own a gun while simultaneously think women should have rights to body autonomy and better maternity care. We citizens probably have more in common than meaningful differences. Our emotions prevent us from remembering Americans should all be on the same team. We aren't enemies.

 

[SimplyMe]

There doesn't seem to be a discernible center anymore. Maybe centrists from D and R may one day be forced into an alliance. It seems farfetched I realize, especially with the current polarization preventing any compromise or progress being offered to citizens from our government. Yet strange goings-on are nearly guaranteed in the future.

I think there is a huge "center" in this country -- it is why there are so many that now identify as Independents, while both major parties are shrinking.

 

[Brihaha]

I think there is a huge "center" in this country -- it is why there are so many that now identify as Independents, while both major parties are shrinking.

Well yeah, I'm a part of the middle myself. Yet we don't gather and rally and fundraise and cause a scene on social media. Some of us lean to the right while others left. That's really all I was trying to convey. We centrists aren't the boisterous, pushy ones. Which isn't always beneficial. Sometimes we should be pushy and hit a lick for what is right. I'm glad we independent voters normally decide who wins the presidency. I'm just not going to go rally for politicians yet.

 

[Pommer]

Well yeah, I'm a part of the middle myself. Yet we don't gather and rally and fundraise and cause a scene on social media. Some of us lean to the right while others left. That's really all I was trying to convey. We centrists aren't the boisterous, pushy ones. Which isn't always beneficial. Sometimes we should be pushy and hit a lick for what is right. I'm glad we independent voters normally decide who wins the presidency. I'm just not going to go rally for politicians yet.

The Right seems to have latched onto anger as a political motivator; (yes, they copied the Left, the Original “malcontents“) but have taken it to levels unseen in the post-modern era and seem to need a daily dose; hence the daily-outrage machine gins up “stories” out of normal operating procedure to provide the base with plenty of red meat to masticate.

 

[Brihaha]

The Right seems to have latched onto anger as a political motivator; (yes, they copied the Left, the Original “malcontents“) but have taken it to levels unseen in the post-modern era and seem to need a daily dose; hence the daily-outrage machine gins up “stories” out of normal operating procedure to provide the base with plenty of red meat to masticate.

This is why I do see a benefit in electing Donald Trump. While his ethos is chaos and divisiveness, many Americans were inspired to learn about our government and its members. Either by their eagerness to believe Mr Trump's manipulated grievance cries or by seeing him as a self-serving conman seeking autocratic power. And extremists have been identified, especially the emboldened ones who actually went to prison believing Mr Trump's nonsense. We can see the people and problems that were once obscured by rational thought and respect for our country. And if our democratic republic survives this test, we will eventually improve our government and society with this newfound knowledge Mr Trump's sect has helped expose. We need to clearly identify problems before mitigating them and Donald helped expose plenty of them.

I think eventually hurt feelings and passion will drive extremists or possibly moderates to split from the same coalition and form new splinter parties like we see in other countries. Even intraparty divisions have become too hateful and volatile to sustain a united, successful coalition much longer. And it seems many of us were inspired to learn about how our government representatives have twisted our system of government to their own advantage while slyly exploiting us without being sent home in the next election. We are wising up as an electorate and their same reelection tactics aren't going to be as effective in the future.

Hopefully seeing Donald being fired demonstrated to voters how we as an electorate can wield our power wisely and demand better from leadership. Voters share responsibility for the ineptitude of our American government. We voters are accountable whether we acknowledge responsibility or not. Accountability needs to reappear. Education leads to more accountability it seems. Additionally, education helps people understand consequences of their actions and possibly how to get more from our votes. I am optimistic for the distant future of America. I am not going to throw in the towel and say the world is ending just yet. Though today is as good a time as any. I am ready.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

The Right seems to have latched onto anger as a political motivator; (yes, they copied the Left, the Original “malcontents“) but have taken it to levels unseen in the post-modern era and seem to need a daily dose; hence the daily-outrage machine gins up “stories” out of normal operating procedure to provide the base with plenty of red meat to masticate.

I don't think it's necessarily "taking it to a new level".

In terms of the "conveyance of outrage" and having it "resonate with the base", they're the benefactors of the fact that
A) the things they happen to be mad about pretty basic and tangible
B) by it's very nature, the removal of a familiar status quo is also going to have the propensity rile people up more than the mere absence of a change they wanted to happen, but didn't.

For instance, if you have a group of employees, and they wanted a particular new policy at the company, and the owner says no... that's unlikely to stir up as much impassioned anger as if the owner replaced an existing policy they liked, with some new one they didn't.

 

[Pommer]

I don't think it's necessarily "taking it to a new level".

In terms of the "conveyance of outrage" and having it "resonate with the base", they're the benefactors of the fact that
A) the things they happen to be mad about pretty basic and tangible
B) by it's very nature, the removal of a familiar status quo is also going to have the propensity rile people up more than the mere absence of a change they wanted to happen, but didn't.

For instance, if you have a group of employees, and they wanted a particular new policy at the company, and the owner says no... that's unlikely to stir up as much impassioned anger as if the owner replaced an existing policy they liked, with some new one they didn't.

But the thing is that Donald Trump failing to win re-election riled portions of the Right to the point that some of them attempted to use an extra-Constitutional means to secure a second term for him.

When following a principleless leader, anger is all that some will have to form their opinions; anger is addictive, and progressive (not lefty progressive, but a tolerance builds); eventually reason succumbs and all they can do is impotently rage at the world.

 

[Belk]

What of these are you in disagreement with? The republican party had gotten away from these to varying degrees and are trying to return to them.

View attachment 338866

Why many people support Trump is mostly based on these two facts ...

No wars under Trump
No mass migration under Trump

Two things that are tearing our country apart.

So based on two facts that are not facts? That seems about par for the course.

Timeline: U.S. War in Afghanistan

The Taliban surged back to power two decades after U.S.-led forces toppled their regime in what led to the United States’ longest war.

www.cfr.org

https://www.cato.org/blog/president-trump-reduced-legal-immigration-he-did-not-reduce-illegal-immigration

 

[stevil]

'Lying to America': GOP lawmaker blasts his fellow Republicans, vows he won't seek reelection

A member of the Freedom Caucus breaks ranks a wee bit to say something that should be fairly evident.

Republicans seem SOOOOO focussed on vengence for the injustices against Trump that they seem unwilling to try to tackle the problems existing in the US right now. Unfortunately, but probably aptly, it appears that the leadership of the party is allowing the group to act like a tool of Trump than an actual political party;. It'd be nice, if the new speaker put his focus back on helping improve life for Americans, but even that seem, too hopeful.

The injustices against Trump???????

They are seeking to please Trump, to win his favour, so that he endorses them for the next election, and so that his base will support them. This has nothing to do with any supposed "injustice". They think the path to victory is to attack the left, troll the left so as to please Trump and his base.

 

[rambot]

The injustices against Trump???????

They are seeking to please Trump, to win his favour, so that he endorses them for the next election, and so that his base will support them. This has nothing to do with any supposed "injustice". They think the path to victory is to attack the left, troll the left so as to please Trump and his base.

Sorry...the "perceived injustices" against Trump.

 

[eleos1954]

I am tired of the call for Limited Government, it is just an excuse to remove parts of the government that go against the GOP interests.

Free Markets means removing regulations, and having read my history I don't want that. Business needs to be regulated to save it from its worst tendencies.

Peace Through Strength is enough to tell me he wants a dictatorship rather than a republic.

The rest of them come under question when you apply the white male viewpoint to them.

In short, no dice for me. It is an authoritative claim hiding behind a thin veil of freedom.

The voters will decide in the next election. Neither party is perfect. The bigger the government is ... the more control they put on its citizens.
There is a lot of government waste and some unneeded regulations (has the democratic party ever addressed government waste?). Like it or not government is our authority ... they both dictate what goes on, so both are a dictatorship ... so we choose our dictators.

Governments really don't matter .... it's all in Gods hands and will most certainly play out according to His will .... regardless of the earthly powers.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I am tired of the call for Limited Government, it is just an excuse to remove parts of the government that go against the GOP interests.

Free Markets means removing regulations, and having read my history I don't want that. Business needs to be regulated to save it from its worst tendencies.

Peace Through Strength is enough to tell me he wants a dictatorship rather than a republic.

The rest of them come under question when you apply the white male viewpoint to them.

In short, no dice for me. It is an authoritative claim hiding behind a thin veil of freedom.

Doesn't that really depend on the issue, and the level of regulation currently surrounding it?

The free market vs. regulation dynamic can (and has been) a double-edged sword.

You can find examples of disingenuous efforts by the GOP to remove regulations that cut against their interests, obviously. (their recent calls for school choice and "abolish the DOE" would be examples of that)

But by the same token, you can find examples of it going the other way to the degree that it actually goes against progressive interests.

A prime example of the scenario of "the regulatory state needing saved from its own worst tendencies" would be an example like trying to get solar installed in California.

There was another thread here a month or so back (and I believe @Bradskii was the one I was discussing it with), but they mentioned that in places like Australia, you can get solar installed in under a week. And juxtapose that against the process in California that's beyond burdensome to the point where it discourages people from doing it.

And solar is something considered a net good in terms of progressive interests.


So while various entities are right to point that when GOP actors say "school choice, get the government out of the way", it's either a veiled ploy to not have to teach sex stuff, or to promote "school choice" (which equates to "let the rich people keep their tax dollars to act as a rebate toward their kid's fancy private school tuition at the expense of the poor kids)

...that criticism isn't quite as compelling when it's "brought to you, in part, by the entity who gave you the $1.7 million toilet installation"

Deregulation isn't always a dirty word.

 

[Paulos23]

The voters will decide in the next election. Neither party is perfect. The bigger the government is ... the more control they put on its citizens.
There is a lot of government waste and some unneeded regulations (has the democratic party ever addressed government waste?). Like it or not government is our authority ... they both dictate what goes on, so both are a dictatorship ... so we choose our dictators.

We have become too complex of a nation and society to not have a government. Because people seem not to be able to think past their own backyards, we need a government to make sure we don't poison ourselves or make the land unusable.

Governments really don't matter .... it's all in Gods hands and will most certainly play out according to His will .... regardless of the earthly powers.

Sorry, it is in our hands. And in the end, it is up to us and the government we allow.

 

[Paulos23]

Doesn't that really depend on the issue, and the level of regulation currently surrounding it?

The free market vs. regulation dynamic can (and has been) a double-edged sword.

You can find examples of disingenuous efforts by the GOP to remove regulations that cut against their interests, obviously. (their recent calls for school choice and "abolish the DOE" would be examples of that)

But by the same token, you can find examples of it going the other way to the degree that it actually goes against progressive interests.

A prime example of the scenario of "the regulatory state needing saved from its own worst tendencies" would be an example like trying to get solar installed in California.

There was another thread here a month or so back (and I believe @Bradskii was the one I was discussing it with), but they mentioned that in places like Australia, you can get solar installed in under a week. And juxtapose that against the process in California that's beyond burdensome to the point where it discourages people from doing it.

And solar is something considered a net good in terms of progressive interests.

True, sometimes the regulations go too far. But most of the regulation cutting I see from the GOP is not thoughtful or considerate of the issues. It is always regulation is bad for business or the government is too big. And that sort of cutting down of the government can lead to big problems down the line.

So while various entities are right to point that when GOP actors say "school choice, get the government out of the way", it's either a veiled ploy to not have to teach sex stuff, or to promote "school choice" (which equates to "let the rich people keep their tax dollars to act as a rebate toward their kid's fancy private school tuition at the expense of the poor kids)

...that criticism isn't quite as compelling when it's "brought to you, in part, by the entity who gave you the $1.7 million toilet installation"

Deregulation isn't always a dirty word.

If it is thoughtful and considers all issues I agree. The problem is the GOP has not shown that to me.