Retired California Bishop Takes Pope's Invitation to Speak His Mind
- Thread starter Fantine
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Hi,
Really and how did those men cast out demons with their defective theology? Mark 9:38-42.
God The Father, had Jesus say those words, Theologically as Jesus did The Father's Will, and he told off the Apostles by saying, "If they are not against us, they are for us." And he told them off after they were not willing to tell Jesus that they were previouly arguing about who, which one of them, would be the greatest in heaven.
You can say you know God so well, that if they are not doing Communion the way your group, who knows much does Communion, that what you say is true.
However, Jesus said those words, and the conversation merely started out with Jesus asking the Apostles what they were talking about. It was greatness. It was their greatness.
Later, after telling them to never, say something like, Don't do that, he then tells them about who is the greatest, even though they refused to tell Jesus what they were talking about.
It is the little ones, who are the greatest.
To know wisdom, and then maybe later to have Wisdom as your guide, is to read and understand Proverbs, but all of Proverbs and it takes about three months to do that.
The last time I did that, I failed on the third reading. It is done this way. Pick the day of the month you are in. Read that Proverb. On the next day do the same thing. And on the next.
When I did this the last, not the first time, I did not understand what I was reading, and it never matters Biblically, if. If you are reading something in your own language, like the Good News Bible in your own language. (You have to actually understand the words, and unless it is vouchsafed to you by God, then you will not really be able to understand the words of days gone by. Forsooth those of just a hundred years ago, or so, are hard to understand. Vouchsafe, pronounced like couch safe, means granted. Forsooth, means indeed. )
The first month, much to none is understood correctly.
The second month, amazing understandings and some corrections of earlier errors happens.
The third month the real work starts, it is then that God by what ever way He does that, causes a person to do more and more work, to understand. I forget why.
I am sorry that I sound harsh. I am.
LOVE,
...Mary Katie., .... .
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You can believe in it all you want but that does not mean consecration is really happening. You have to be a legitimately ordained priest with proper orders from a proper bishop. It is what it is. Its not subjective which is why women priest won't ever happen because it simple can't ever happen.
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Hi,
Roman Catholicism is a highly educated group of priests, and as a result, much of what they say is somewhat to totally misunderstood by laymen, like myself.
I have misunderstood them more than once, due to the trade terms they employ, called esoterica normally.
Please on the Lutheran issue, of having a valid Eucharist, read the following: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valid_but_illicit
LOVE,
...Mary Katerina., .... .
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you have to be ordained by a valid bishop to consecrate. Period. It does not matter what ppl say. You have to be ordained properly. period.
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Hi,
Does that mean that you have read and understood that entire reference in these past few minutes????
LOVE,
...Mary Katerina., .... .
Does that mean that you have read and understood that entire reference in these past few minutes????
LOVE,
...Mary Katerina., .... .
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Erose
Newbie
Katerina, they are correct n this matter. The only people who have been given the Chrism to act Persona Christi when it comes to the Sacrament of the Eucharist is validly ordained men, by an Apostolic Successor, I.e. Bishop. You just can't wake up one day and have a vision and all of a sudden become a priest. Christ established an orderly fashion for the Church to have priests so that we all can know who is and is not properly ordained. The other way would lead to a whole lot of confusion on the part of the flock. Seriously if the flock does not have the ability to determine who is and is not the shepherd, they will quickly be led away by the wolves.
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Hi,
Jesus who is a priest forever in the line of Melchizedek is a priest. So was Melchizedec of Salem of olden days.
There was the birth priesthood in olden days. I think it was the Aaronic priesthood.
Always there have been, more than one line of priests in olden days.
What decision made Jesus a priest, if it was not to offer Himself up on the cross?
And, to us here on earth, is not that act of offereing a sacrifice for us, also make God The Father and God The Holy Spirit priest also.
What made Jesus a priest forever in the line of Melchizedek, if it were not His offering up an unblemished sacrifice for our sins, the sins of mankind?
To be a Catholic, is to have no limits, in what a Catholic will study, or allow himself to learn.
The church has ruled valid, but illicit, meaning Eucharistically, in some cases and not all cases, it really is the Body and Blood of Jesus. Now they also say, you who are Catholic cannot cause others to get the wrong ideas, so for that reason alone, if you are Catholic, normally and again not in all cases, you are not to partake of The Boby and Blood of Jesus in Luthern services, but if there is an more important love and affirmation that you are to extend to a person, and not their church, then by all means love them, by affirming them.
For some Catholic individuals in a wedding, and determined only by that individual and if in doubt by talking to a spritual director to get clarity, taking The Body and Blood of Jesus for them in love is a requirement. It is a requirement in mercy and love, but it is still no affirmation, that they are not wrong, in not being Roman Catholic.
LOVE,
...Mary Katerina., .... .
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Erose
Newbie
Sorry, you are still wrong here. Jesus gained His sacramental priesthood, because God made Him the mediator between God and man. So He received His Divine Priesthood through His Incarnation. He passed on that sacramental priesthood to the Apostles, and the Apostles passed that priesthood on through the laying on of hands; and this passing on of the priesthood is what we call Apostolic Succession. One cannot become a Sacramental Priest through personal revelation; and we should all thank God for that. Why? Because it lets us know who is and is not a Priest. We can know which person, who stands before the altar and utters those sacred words, will be able to facilitate the transubstantiation of the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ. What you are advocating is pure chaos, which should be avoided at all costs.
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Hi,
I did not say Sacramental Priesthood. Why the implication? I doubt very much that Melchizedek offered sacrifices for his sins also.
If you need to believe what you do, then fine. Faustina exists. Fatima exists. Joan of Arc exists. Lourdes exists.
Mark 9:38-42 and Romans 14 exist. I am sorry if I have upset you. It was unintentional. I will withdraw for you and one other here.
LOVE,
...Mary Katie., .... .
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Who said their theology was defective? Casting out demons is not a sacrament.
Lay people cannot offer communion. This is a Catholic forum and you are arguing Catholic theology. Other groups do not have apostolic succession. I can't call myself a bishop and offer sacraments - because I'd precisely be against the Church. Protestantism is not for us, it is against the Church, Christ, and the Truth. It is an imitation. That's exactly what sin is - when something is close but not quite. And sin robs the person of the grace and joy of what they could be doing. Protestantism is a poison that seduces a person away from the Church and feeds them the poison of a life without sacraments and unity.
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To be a Catholic, is to have no limits, in what a Catholic will study, or allow himself to learn.[/quote]
What do this have to do with his post?
No, the Church does not recognize Lutherans as having a valid but illicit communion. Only apostolic Churches have valid Eucharist. "Illicit" is not really appropriate when talking about other groups. Illicit generally applies to what Catholic priests do if they are acting outside of the Church.
I am having a hard time understanding what you are saying. I wish you'd take my time to put your thoughts down in a way that doesn't sound jumbled and run-on. Non Catholics may not receive communion at a Catholic wedding. A priest does not have the authority to give permission.
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I did not know anything about Lutherans until marriage to a Lutheran and visiting a Lutheran country, Sweden. It is difficult to see any difference from the way we Catholics worship.
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Martinius
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Must we have a liturgy celebrated by a priest? There are and have been several places, the rural areas of Australia and villages of Central and South America come to mind, where it is impossible for priests to come every Sunday for Mass. So then what?
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