Resurrection, First Resurrection and New Birth

[shilohsfoal]

Your proving a thousand years are not one thousand years. Those already dead have already lived and reigned A thousand years, they are of the first resurrection because they lived and reigned [past tense]. But all who are blessed and holy, like them, having part in the first resurrection, will be those who shall live and reign, so they too shall live and reign with those having lived and reigned during this time likened to A thousand years also. In other words, it is not limiting living and reigning with Christ to only those who have already lived and died. John shows that all who are of the first resurrection, no matter when they live and die, are called holy and blessed, are priests and kings, and live and reign with Christ in life and death during this time likened to A thousand years. Being of the first resurrection, then dying is living and reigning with Christ A thousand years, because A thousand years represents the whole Gospel age. It is within this age that one must partake of the first resurrection in Christ, making them holy and blessed, and in death alive with Him in heaven until this time, likened to A thousand years expire.

Verse 5 is not saying the rest of the dead are the first resurrection, but that the thousand years are the first resurrection. Because it is within this symbolic time that one must partake of Christ so that even in death they will be with Christ.

Re 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Re 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Re 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Two days does not equal one day.
The gospel was introduced by Christ 2000 years ago not 1000. So for two days the gospel has been casting out devils and healing the sick.

Luke 13:32 NIV: He replied, "Go tell that fox, 'I will keep on driving out demons and healing people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach my goal.'


Your problem is you don't know what day the Lord is Lord of.

 

[shilohsfoal]

A day is as 1000 years.
Does any one realize what the last day is?

John 6:40 KJV: And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

It's the seventh day.
Those who keep the seventh day are blessed for the Lord Is Lord of the sabbath day.

Matthew 12:8 For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."

And they shall reign with Christ 1000 years.

 

[claninja]

My reply to that would depend on whether or not I believe in OSAS, would it not?

I hold to once saved always saved. I hold that God chose those that would be in Christ before the foundation of the world. He predestined those whom he called to be justified and glorified, that they would be conformed to the image of His son.

Romans 8:29-30 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Ephesians 1:5-6 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

However, I do not believe that once saved always saved means that a "Christian" can be saved after leaving the faith. If a Christian leaves the faith to never come back to God, they were never really saved and never really part of the body of Christ to begin with. They were never predestined to be justified or glorified in the likeness of the son.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

Hebrews 6:5-6 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

Thus, I believe once saved always saved only refers to those who were predestined before the foundation of the world by God to be conformed to the likeness of His son, that they might be called, justified, and glorified in Christ. Therefore the promises of being a kingdom of priests to God and never being hurt by the 2nd death already apply to us.

I don't believe those in the body of Christ who overcome (which means to have faith in Christ according to 1 John 5:4) have to wait for the promises of the 2nd death never hurting us or becoming a kingdom of priests. These are present realities for those who believe as stated by Jesus and the apostles:

John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in Me will live, even though he dies. And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”

1 Pete 2:4-5 As you come to Him, the living stone, rejected by men but chosen and precious in God’s sight, 5you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

1 peter 2:9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, to proclaim the virtues of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.

Then everyone who shall confess Me before men, I will confess him before My Father who is in Heaven.
But whoever shall deny Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father in Heaven. Matthew 10:32-33

That would be anyone who remains in denial of Christ, especially after coming to faith initially. Peter denied Christ, but repented. I don't believe Jesus would deny Peter before the Father in Heaven.

Those who had been beheaded because of their testimony to Christ and had been killed for their refusal to receive the mark of the beast had confessed Him and had not denied Him, so they are told they will not be hurt by the second death.

The epistles and gospels declare that all those in the body of Christ are not hurt by the 2nd death (John 11:25-26, Romans 6:23), and are a royal priest hood to God ( 1 peter 2:5, 1 peter 2:9). The gospels and epistles never state it is only those beheaded or martyred.

Therefore, I interpret the apocalyptic language of revelation 20 through the lens of the gospels and epistles, and not the other way around.

 

[claninja]

I should be fine as long as I don't take anything out of Revelation such as the first resurrection.
But like I've said, I will not be taking part in the first resurrection. That is reserved for others. I will be taking part in the final resurrection.

Revelation 22:19 KJV: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

You don't take anything away or add to revelation do you? Be careful you don't add yourself where you don't belong.If you have not been beheaded for your witness of Jesus and then been resurrected, it would be safe to not claim to be one of those who do.

Classic avoidance. You dodge answering my questions, and then attempt to change the subject.

I'll ask again:

1.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith, can the 2nd death no longer hurt you (john 11:25-26)

2.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith, are you now a member of the royal priesthood to God (1 peter 2:5, 1 peter 2:9)?

 

[shilohsfoal]

Classic avoidance. You dodge answering my questions, and then attempt to change the subject.

I'll ask again:

1.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith, can the 2nd death no longer hurt you (john 11:25-26)

2.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith, are you now a member of the royal priesthood to God (1 peter 2:5, 1 peter 2:9)?

Firstly, I was not nailed to a cross. I also have not risen from the dead. I don't know what gave you the idea that I was crucified and then resurrected.
Perhaps you have me confused with someone else

 

[claninja]

Firstly, I was not nailed to a cross. I also have not risen from the dead. I don't know what gave you the idea that I was crucified and then resurrected.
Perhaps you have me confused with someone else

I didn't even ask you any of this. Your avoidance to answer the questions I did ask is clearly noted, not only to me, but those who stumble upon this thread looking for answers.

So Ill ask again:

1.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), can the 2nd death no longer hurt you (john 11:25-26)

2.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), are you now a member of the royal priesthood to God (1 peter 2:5, 1 peter 2:9)?

 

[shilohsfoal]

I didn't even ask you any of this. Your avoidance to answer the questions I did ask is clearly noted, not only to me, but those who stumble upon this thread looking for answers.

So Ill ask again:

1.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith, can the 2nd death no longer hurt you (john 11:25-26)

2.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith, are you now a member of the royal priesthood to God (1 peter 2:5, 1 peter 2:9)?

I'm sorry. Let's not stray from the topic of the resurrection of those who had been beheaded for thier testimony of Jesus and who had not worshiped the beast. Do you have any question regarding them,?

 

[shilohsfoal]

I didn't even ask you any of this. Your avoidance to answer the questions I did ask is clearly noted, not only to me, but those who stumble upon this thread looking for answers.

So Ill ask again:

1.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), can the 2nd death no longer hurt you (john 11:25-26)

2.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), are you now a member of the royal priesthood to God (1 peter 2:5, 1 peter 2:9)?

Oh, and by the way, you do realize this is an end times forum don't you? You know end times as in the first resurrection.

 

[claninja]

I'm sorry. Let's not stray from the topic of the resurrection of those who had been beheaded for thier testimony of Jesus and who had not worshiped the beast. Do you have any question regarding them,?

Wow, the avoidance is unreal.

My question is on topic as it relates to revelation 20:6, which is about revelation 20:4-5.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! 1.) Over such the second death has no power, 2.) but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

So Ill ask again:

1.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), can the 2nd death no longer hurt you (john 11:25-26)

2.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), are you now a member of the royal priesthood to God (1 peter 2:5, 1 peter 2:9)?

 

[shilohsfoal]

Wow, the avoidance is unreal.

My question is on topic as it relates to revelation 20:6, which is about revelation 20:4-5.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! 1.) Over such the second death has no power, 2.) but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

So Ill ask again:

1.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), can the 2nd death no longer hurt you (john 11:25-26)

2.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), are you now a member of the royal priesthood to God (1 peter 2:5, 1 peter 2:9)?

Insted of derailing someone else's thread, why not make one of your own?
This thread is about the resurrection of those who were beheaded for thier witness of Jesus. You know,those people you keep AVOIDING.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Wow, the avoidance is unreal.

My question is on topic as it relates to revelation 20:6, which is about revelation 20:4-5.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! 1.) Over such the second death has no power, 2.) but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

So Ill ask again:

1.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), can the 2nd death no longer hurt you (john 11:25-26)

2.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), are you now a member of the royal priesthood to God (1 peter 2:5, 1 peter 2:9)?

Why do you keep Avoiding those who are beheaded for thier witness of Jesus? It's like you cant even acknowledge they even exist.

 

[claninja]

Insted of derailing someone else's thread, why not make one of your own?
This thread is about the resurrection of those who were beheaded for thier witness of Jesus. You know,those people you keep AVOIDING.

Classic futurist arugment style. avoid answering the questions, which are in fact about how to interpret revelation 20:4-6, I asked first, and accuse me of avoiding.

Please by all means, If I am derailing the thread please report it.

Ill ask again:

1.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), can the 2nd death no longer hurt you (john 11:25-26)

2.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), are you now a member of the royal priesthood to God (1 peter 2:5, 1 peter 2:9)?

 

[claninja]

Why do you keep Avoiding those who are beheaded for thier witness of Jesus? It's like you cant even acknowledge they even exist.

I've already acknowledged that I believe those beheaded represent the martyred saints. Through their persecutions they live and reign with Christ, as we are one with Christ and Christ lives and reigns forever from the right hand of the Father.

I addressed you, now will you address me?

1.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), can the 2nd death no longer hurt you (john 11:25-26)

2.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), are you now a member of the royal priesthood to God (1 peter 2:5, 1 peter 2:9)?

 

[shilohsfoal]

I've already acknowledged that I believe those beheaded represent the martyred saints. Through their persecutions they live and reign with Christ, as we are one with Christ and Christ lives and reigns forever from the right hand of the Father.

I addressed you, now will you address me?

1.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), can the 2nd death no longer hurt you (john 11:25-26)

2.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), are you now a member of the royal priesthood to God (1 peter 2:5, 1 peter 2:9)?

But you reject the fact that those marterd saints are resurrected from the dead as the scripture states.

And no, they have not asceded up to heaven.

John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven--the Son of Man.

Only Christ has done that.

 

[claninja]

But you reject the fact that those marterd saints are resurrected from the dead as the scripture states.

And no, they have not asceded up to heaven.

John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven--the Son of Man.

Only Christ has done that.

I don't reject that the martys partake or share in Christ's resurrection.

I addressed you, now will you address me? Or will continue question dodging?

1.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), can the 2nd death no longer hurt you (john 11:25-26)

2.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), are you now a member of the royal priesthood to God (1 peter 2:5, 1 peter 2:9)?

 

[shilohsfoal]

I don't reject that the martys partake or share in Christ's resurrection.

I addressed you, now will you address me? Or will continue question dodging?

1.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), can the 2nd death no longer hurt you (john 11:25-26)

2.) By partaking in Christ's death and resurrection through being spiritually baptized into his death and raised through faith (colossians 2:12), are you now a member of the royal priesthood to God (1 peter 2:5, 1 peter 2:9)?

I did address you. I was not crucified and I was not resurrected. And by the way. Those resurrected saints who were beheaded. They are not in the sky.
John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven--the Son of Man.

 

[claninja]

I did address you. I was not crucified and I was not resurrected. And by the way. Those resurrected saints who were beheaded. They are not in the sky.
John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven--the Son of Man.

since you won’t address the questions, should I assume you believe the 2nd will hurt you and you are not a member of the royal priesthood of God?

 

[shilohsfoal]

since you won’t address the questions, should I assume you believe the 2nd will hurt you and you are not a member of the royal priesthood of God?

I did address it. You said I took part in Jesus death and resurrection. But I wasn't even alive when that happened. I did not crucify Jesus and I didn't bring him back to life. Furthermore I myself have not died and I have not been resurrected.
I suppose you think you were.

 

[claninja]

I did address it. You said I took part in Jesus death and resurrection. But I wasn't even alive when that happened. I did not crucify Jesus and I didn't bring him back to life. Furthermore I myself have not died and I have not been resurrected.
I suppose you think you were.

since you won’t address the questions, should I assume you believe the 2nd will hurt you and you are not a member of the royal priesthood of God?

 

[shilohsfoal]

since you won’t address the questions, should I assume you believe the 2nd will hurt you and you are not a member of the royal priesthood of God?

I think you like playing God.You go ahead and judge me.