Responding to WHY were they not healed

[Bob Carabbio]

"If I may add to your ending sentence...(As long as the foundational truth of the spiritual communication is based on the written word of God that "speaks" to you. (hearing the spoken word.) Agreed?"

Can't agree with what I don't understand, of course.

It LOOKS like you're saying that the spiritual communication MUST Have it's FOUNDATION in the written Word, which is certainly true. anything that doesn't "Square" with the Written Word is suspect, big time.

But then you dump in: "(hearing the spoken word.)", and I'm not sure what you're trying to communicate there. Sounds like you think that a PERSON has to be heard speaking the Word, and that it has to be "biblical".

I wouldn't agree with that, although certainly in MY case Pete was "trying to speak the Word" (as much as he remembered of it - did a pretty good job).

One of my friends was driving in Dayton, OH back in the early '70s, and God just came in his car so he had to pull over, and became A christian right there with Nobody around but Him and the Holy Spirit - the HEARING of Faith.

SO I'll simply wait for a clarification.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"Do you think that when a person comes to the point they know for sure,the truth of salvation and their on a highway to hell,that invokes a far greater faith?"

Not an understandable question -

When a person comes to the point they know for sure,the truth of salvation and they're on a highway to hell, THAT IS FAITH - an ABSOLUTE FAITH that you're hellbound. and then the Ball's in YOUR court to surrender, repent and cry out for salvation, The FAITH is already there letting you KNOW what the situation is, and that you need to respond. And when you DO, the Holy Spirit bears witness with YOUR spirit that you're His child. The Hearing of Faith.

"Could we be satisfied and complete by salvation,and look the other way on affliction?

The SIMPLE FACT about "Spiritual Victory" is that "Victory" ISN'T when the "problem goes away" - it's when it no longer is an "Issue" one way or another.

The FACT is that 1/3 of my heart is dead (the back 1/3), all of the bypasses (I've had 2 procedures) are occluded except 2 (out of 5), I've had 13 heart attacks, and I'm carrying 16 stents. There's been "Collateral Growth".

And I'm working full time as the Chief engineer of my company, and people don't have to "cut me any slack" because of my physical condition. Most of 'em have no idea that I've got physical problems HEY!! when you're 71 folks expect you to "Slow down" a bit.

I Haven't "Looked the other way" about my "Affliction", but I Have NO INDICATION that God intends to do anything about it - EXCEPT that since I was supposed to be dead in '04 He appears to be happy "Sustaining me" in my present condition.

And if He's happy with that arrangement, so am I. Could be that he KNOWS me well enough to know that If I was 100% - I'd probably wander -

Oh - and There's HEALING in the atonement, and God HEALS people from all sorts of things (Our associate pastor was in hospice with stage 4 testicular cancer - that "just went away"). IF HE NEVER heals me in life, he still heals folks according to HIS will and plan.

Simple as that.

 

[now faith]

I agree with both posts.

For me, the 3 things that made the hugest change in my life AFTER being saved and baptized in the Spirit, is:

1. listening to WOF teachers,
2. studying scripture,
3. AND consulting with the Lord on the teachings and the scripture to get His step by step instructions on how He wants me to implement scripture truth.

At first I did 1 and 2, with good results, but when I added 3, the miracles started happening daily.

WOF teachers are ordained of the Lord to help me, but the Lord is the only one who can lead me step by step into victory.

Amen.

Many consider Word of Faith a movement,out side of the status Que.

I had held the teaching accountable to Gods Word,and with the mainstream teachers it comes back in truth.

One of the main teachings of W.O.F is praying Bible Schripture.

Kenneth Hagin senior did this with Pauls prayer in Ephesians.

For quite some time he did this daily,after a while he asked his wife ,,what in the world have I been preaching all these years?

There is power in Gods Word,when quoted or spoken over a problem,the power is released.

God is faithfully engaged with us through his Word it does not change.

Man is the one who seeks to change it or twist it for the sake of pride.

If anyone claims a new revelation contrary to the word he is a liar.

If anyone claims a new dispensation of time in that the promises in the word have some how changed it is false teaching.

Nothing will change until Christ comes back takes us up and the Holy Spirit will no longer dwell on earth.

For now the Holy Spirit is still here with us,all the gifts and power are still here as well.
Yet a logical fallacy is taught everywhere that that time has past.

Satan is a liar,and controls theology.

As if man can correct God// no no no Jesus thats not what the Bible means because we are
Enlightened with stupidity.

God Bless.

 

[now faith]

Watchman nee wrote a good book on Job and put it in its proper context. Any one remember the Hunters?.
The world could do with a manifestation of the sons of God!
God heals and we get to pray. The wonder is when you know how it's brilliant!
In love
Graham

Welcome Graham, I agree this world would be shaken and evil run back to hell.

We need a revival world wide hosted by the sons of God,declaring Victory in Jesus.

 

[hhodgson]

It LOOKS like you're saying that the spiritual communication MUST Have it's FOUNDATION in the written Word, which is certainly true. anything that doesn't "Square" with the Written Word is suspect, big time.

But then you dump in: "(hearing the spoken word.)", and I'm not sure what you're trying to communicate there. Sounds like you think that a PERSON has to be heard speaking the Word, and that it has to be "biblical".

Hey...Were getting better. You agree with half of it. I posted to you this earlier on and I don't know of a better way of explaining it...Lets try again.

Several Greek words are used for the "WORD" of God. The Greek word used here is "RHEMA," and it literally means a "SPOKEN WORD"--"specifically" a SPOKEN WORD appropriate for YOUR situation. It's not the Bible lying on your coffee table that makes the enemy flee; It is the WORD of GOD "hidden" in your HEART, "activated" by the power of the Holy Spirit and SPOKEN in an appropriate situation. It's similar to what Jesus said in (John 6:63)--The WORDS that I SPEAK unto YOU, they are SPIRIT, and they are LIFE. (Eph 6:17) is not speaking of a book, but it's speaking of a book "as a RHEMA;" i.e., the WORDS "we" SPEAK that "come from" the WRITTEN WORD of God and again "empowered" by the Holy Spirit. The WORD by "itself" doesn't make us free. It is the WORD we "know" and SPEAK that will deliver us (John 8:32).

Bob...It's not about "a person speaks to you," (even though that can happen also) It's about "GOD" SPEAKING to YOU, "through" the WRITTEN WORD, that YOU are READING. Take the WORD that God has SPOKEN to YOU "from" the WRITTEN WORD (word jumps off the pages into your heart).."AND"....SPEAK it to YOUR coronary.

With that I am FINISHED!..................................................................jeesh!



Greater works...
_____________
Harry

 

[now faith]

"Do you think that when a person comes to the point they know for sure,the truth of salvation and their on a highway to hell,that invokes a far greater faith?"

Not an understandable question -

When a person comes to the point they know for sure,the truth of salvation and they're on a highway to hell, THAT IS FAITH - an ABSOLUTE FAITH that you're hellbound. and then the Ball's in YOUR court to surrender, repent and cry out for salvation, The FAITH is already there letting you KNOW what the situation is, and that you need to respond. And when you DO, the Holy Spirit bears witness with YOUR spirit that you're His child. The Hearing of Faith.

"Could we be satisfied and complete by salvation,and look the other way on affliction?

The SIMPLE FACT about "Spiritual Victory" is that "Victory" ISN'T when the "problem goes away" - it's when it no longer is an "Issue" one way or another.

The FACT is that 1/3 of my heart is dead (the back 1/3), all of the bypasses (I've had 2 procedures) are occluded except 2 (out of 5), I've had 13 heart attacks, and I'm carrying 16 stents. There's been "Collateral Growth".

And I'm working full time as the Chief engineer of my company, and people don't have to "cut me any slack" because of my physical condition. Most of 'em have no idea that I've got physical problems HEY!! when you're 71 folks expect you to "Slow down" a bit.

I Haven't "Looked the other way" about my "Affliction", but I Have NO INDICATION that God intends to do anything about it - EXCEPT that since I was supposed to be dead in '04 He appears to be happy "Sustaining me" in my present condition.

And if He's happy with that arrangement, so am I. Could be that he KNOWS me well enough to know that If I was 100% - I'd probably wander -

Oh - and There's HEALING in the atonement, and God HEALS people from all sorts of things (Our associate pastor was in hospice with stage 4 testicular cancer - that "just went away"). IF HE NEVER heals me in life, he still heals folks according to HIS will and plan.

Simple as that.

I was watching,a show on Dick Cheney and they some how kept him alive until he got a heart transplant.

His old heart was enlarged,and he went into many surgeries.

Life is strange sometimes I know 50 year old his first heart trouble kill him instantly.

Hang in there Obama in charge

Seriously you may have a surgery that will fix it.

Or a transplant,prayer sometimes is answered in ways we do not expect.

But if the doc.puts in a pump,make sure its not made in China:

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"Life is strange sometimes I know 50 year old his first heart trouble kill him instantly."

Statistically, most heart attacks occur at around 3:00 A.M. (about 1/2 of mine have), and the SECOND heart attack will be the one that "takes you out".

We just had a fellow in Midlothian (that I Play Bluegrass with) had the "Widowmaker" (Blockage of the proximal left anterior descending coronary artery) as his third Heart Attack in three months, and the medical community told his wife that he'd waited too long and would almost certainly be brain damaged, and/or blind. Lots of prayer about it, and he's pretty much back to normal, but physically weak. But we were picking together on stage again a couple of weeks ago.

I told him NOT to try for my record!!!

 

[hhodgson]

"Life is strange sometimes I know 50 year old his first heart trouble kill him instantly."

Statistically, most heart attacks occur at around 3:00 A.M. (about 1/2 of mine have), and the SECOND heart attack will be the one that "takes you out".

We just had a fellow in Midlothian (that I Play Bluegrass with) had the "Widowmaker" (Blockage of the proximal left anterior descending coronary artery) as his third Heart Attack in three months, and the medical community told his wife that he'd waited too long and would almost certainly be brain damaged, and/or blind. Lots of prayer about it, and he's pretty much back to normal, but physically weak. But we were picking together on stage again a couple of weeks ago.

I told him NOT to try for my record!!!

That's great Bob...you guys keep right on a picking. Definately, our prayers go out to both of you...

I agree...That's one record "nobody" wants to break.

You are a blessing...

Greater works...
_____________
Harry

 

[now faith]

"Life is strange sometimes I know 50 year old his first heart trouble kill him instantly."

Statistically, most heart attacks occur at around 3:00 A.M. (about 1/2 of mine have), and the SECOND heart attack will be the one that "takes you out".

We just had a fellow in Midlothian (that I Play Bluegrass with) had the "Widowmaker" (Blockage of the proximal left anterior descending coronary artery) as his third Heart Attack in three months, and the medical community told his wife that he'd waited too long and would almost certainly be brain damaged, and/or blind. Lots of prayer about it, and he's pretty much back to normal, but physically weak. But we were picking together on stage again a couple of weeks ago.

I told him NOT to try for my record!!!

Wow 3 am is the hour many other things happen as well.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"It's about "GOD" SPEAKING to YOU, etc."

O.K. that's understandable. Apparently, we're on the same page, and in agreement.

Since the "Word" (or the Holy Spirit) HAS NEVER spoken to me about my physical issues, then we can both agree that I have (at THIS point in time) NOTHING to base a "Claim of healing" on, and any "Claim" that I would make based on the "Logos" would be presumptive. That, of course wouldn't prohibit "Prayers of petition" based on God's Will, and my continuing trust in Him to "do right".

 

[Gospel Guy]

WOF folks die of sicknesses all the time

That's cause they don't know what they are doing. They saw it in the Bible, and mentally agreed it was true... but failed to sow God's Word into their life and walking in the Spirit whilst taking care of their body (eating right, exercising, plenty of sleep, etc)

But, you're right... I hear of folk all the time say they believe in divine healing that are running to the doctor and are all freaked out that obamacare gonna cause they health insurance to git cancelled.

Hopefully everyone's health insurance will get cancelled so they'll have to actually walk with the Lord!

The FACT is that 1/3 of my heart is dead (the back 1/3), all of the bypasses (I've had 2 procedures) are occluded except 2 (out of 5), I've had 13 heart attacks, and I'm carrying 16 stents. There's been "Collateral Growth".

Got scripture that shows where God said all this is wrong with you???

You keep speaking the "word of death" by saying what you have in the natural, instead of saying what Jesus purchased for you to have in the Spirit (In CHRIST, in His Kingdom) which has the power to change your situation to perfect health... as long as you also present your body a living sacrifice daily which is your reasonable service meaning a big part of this is eating right, exercising, getting plenty of sleep, walking in love and forgiveness, rejecting stress, etc... you know, common sense stuff.

Hang in their bro... you'll get it one of these days!




.

 

[Alive_Again]

Originally Posted by wstu

WOF folks die of sicknesses all the time
​

I kind of get the impression that "non-WOF" believers (not just here) think that "WOF" people think they are some kind of elitist supermen, who are impervious to attack because they believe on the promises (laying hold on them and not just passively believing them). Believing is the first step to overcoming (along with hearing!). You have to walk out an acceptable amount of obedience to stay free. IMO, to actually be completely free, you have to pretty much walk out the perfect will of God (which we're still discovering daily). Considering the attacks and incomplete knowledge, and the need for the camp to stay in unity, it's a learning process to embrace the good and put away evil. Not too many perfect examples to adhere to.

Imagine out of all those God took out of Egypt (the church), He had groups that were gonna wait in the desert for Him to rapture them out (citing cries of "dominionism"); others would be healed of their diseases (only if He willed them to) because Job was greatly afflicted (and that was before the Law). Then He had some which entered in, but couldn't be assured of victory because of AI, and the miracles done leaving Egypt ceased when Moses died, etc.

Kind of resembles today, with various groups adopting doctrines that excuse why they don't walk in their appointed inheritance. God's capable (if He wants to). But He's already given His Word, but it's up to us to line up and by violence (literally) TAKE IT BY FORCE. (They tried that at AI, but because they were out of order, they suffered loss.) It IS the height of presumption to go up "to the hill" and assume God is with us if we're out of order (not adhering to His ways). -- I want to add here that it would be equally presumptuous for them to adopt the prescription for victory at AI like they did it at Jericho. To walk out our victories, we must walk and be led by the Spirit of God.

Of course there is a LOT more to working out your salvation to staying whole and protected. You have to obey God. We have every type and shadow of those literally entering into their inheritance get out of order and have problems. Their enemies were not vanquished completely; they made deals with others to keep the peace; some got into sin because of the very peoples they did not vanquish. Yet the promise was theirs.

You might say that the ones who believed God's Word to enter in and readied themselves by violence to take it by force were very much like "WOF" people. If the old ones in the desert who elected not to do so were still alive, they would be criticizing the ones who would (and their faith declarations, and especially the ones who tried and failed. If they ran into trouble, it would seemingly prove their doctrines to be foolish and presumptuous.

Since we're learning to get past ourselves and be living sacrifices (die) and put away our flesh; we're still learning the need to stay in the presence (under His wings) in order to stay protected; to stay inclined in order to hear, we can expect to sometimes see problems from "faith people" who resort to hospitals. We should be encouraging one another to step out and believe, rather than affirming the exceptions, because it is often these the enemy uses to keep us in unbelief.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"Hopefully everyone's health insurance will get cancelled so they'll have to actually walk with the Lord!"

Just like they did at the "Glory Barn" in Warsaw Indiana. Not allowed to have health insurance, or take medicines - and to "walk in FAITH" (because without faith it's impossible to please Him). The "Body count" there exceeded 100 (mostly infants and their mothers) including Hobart himself.

"Got scripture that shows where God said all this is wrong with you???"

Silly question. I've got the scars that witness the REAL physical condition that I live with daily.

"you know, common sense stuff."

SO my "healing" will come through my "Works" of common sense, and my PRESUMPTION that what I DON'T HAVE is "really there", after all.

Thanks for clearing that up, y'all!!!

 

[hhodgson]

"It's about "GOD" SPEAKING to YOU, etc."

O.K. that's understandable. Apparently, we're on the same page, and in agreement.

Since the "Word" (or the Holy Spirit) HAS NEVER spoken to me about my physical issues, then we can both agree that I have (at THIS point in time) NOTHING to base a "Claim of healing" on, and any "Claim" that I would make based on the "Logos" would be presumptive. That, of course wouldn't prohibit "Prayers of petition" based on God's Will, and my continuing trust in Him to "do right".

In agreement?...aah, yes, and no...and I'll leave it at that, except for this... When I READ the word, The Lord SPEAKS to me everytime!...and in whatever area I'm reading...BUT, we can have a hard time HEARING His voice. I believe the Lord continually speaks to us and gives us His direction. It's never the Lord who is not speaking, BUT...it's us who is not hearing, or listening.

Psalm 46:10 says,
"Be still, and know that I am God."
​

"Be STILL, and know that I am God."
It's in stillness, not busyness, that we tune our spiritual ears to hear the voice of God. The Lord always speaks to us in that "STILL, small voice" (1 Kings 19:12) - "but often it's drowned out amid all the turmoil of our daily lives."

I am convinced that our gracious heavenly Father SPEAKS to "every one" of His children constantly, giving us all the information and guidance we need to be total overcomer's in any area of our need. There isn't a problem with His still small voice; it's our HEARING that needs help. I am first in that "guilty" line.

Taking a faith-stance that God is speaking to US and then "learning to listen" and obey will transform OUR relationship with the Lord. It could save our lives.

Sorry, Bob...I said in my last post I was done. So I got to get out of here before you come after me...

Greater works...
_____________
Harry

 

[Gospel Guy]

"Hopefully everyone's health insurance will get cancelled so they'll have to actually walk with the Lord!"

Just like they did at the "Glory Barn" in Warsaw Indiana. Not allowed to have health insurance, or take medicines - and to "walk in FAITH" (because without faith it's impossible to please Him). The "Body count" there exceeded 100 (mostly

Yeah, well healthcare is nothing more than experimentation using the wisdom of mankind and their track record is getting worse! That's why the call it "practicing" medicine cause they know very little about what they are doing.

And, now that obamacare is going to pretty much destroy the healthcare system, the "body count" is going to start rising shortly. Count on it. And, since most Christians don't understand the literal Body of Jesus Christ... they won't be calling upon the Lord for healing and health. They'll just be cryin in their soup blaming the government for their health problems just like the world.

So, when one places their trust in mankind's ability... when you come across something man cannot fix, you die!

"Got scripture that shows where God said all this is wrong with you???"

Silly question. I've got the scars that witness the REAL physical condition that I live with daily.

Yeah, it's too bad you apparently don't know that Jesus Christ took that upon His Body so your body could be delivered from it... and like you say, you continue to "live with it" every day. Enjoy!

"you know, common sense stuff."

SO my "healing" will come through my "Works" of common sense, and my PRESUMPTION that what I DON'T HAVE is "really there", after all.

So, if you were needing to cross the street... you'd look both ways right and do what you know to do in order to ensure safe passage, correct?

Well then, whilst believing what God's Word says about Jesus purchasing your healing, you should also be taking care of your body by not abusing it.

It's a shame you don't know how to take care of your body. I hope you don't treat your truck like that... it'll leave you broke down on the side of the road like your body has broken down numerous times.

As they say... good luck wit all dat!

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"when you come across something man cannot fix, you die!"

Psst!!! Hate to break this to you, but - You die anyway sooner or later.

 

[Gospel Guy]

"when you come across something man cannot fix, you die!"

Psst!!! Hate to break this to you, but - You die anyway sooner or later.

Dur??? Yes, I can read Einstein where God said it's appointed unto man to die once.

I'm referring to people having their lives snuffed out early which pleases satan because they put their trust in the arm of the flesh. the wisdom of mankind to keep them well and when they ran up against something man kind couldn't do anything about... they died early.

Typically, these folks call upon the Lord but since they have ignored Him and His Word for so long it's easy for satan to choke the Word for healing out of their lives, especially since most of them wouldn't know how to pray according to God's Word in the first place!

And, when they die... everybody blames God!

Sadly, many so called Word and Faith people who claim to know whassup with God's Word die early too!

Like that guy that wrote the hokey pokey... when he died and they had some trouble with the open casket viewing at his funeral… he kept putting his left foot in, and his left foot out

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"they died early."

Or maybe they died right on time. "that they died early" is just another "theological assumption" necessary to support a "favorite paradigm".

 

[Jedi.Kep]

This is why I stopped bothering to try. It's all about walking by sight rather than walking by faith. Some people simply refuse to see the difference.

 

[Gospel Guy]

"they died early."

Or maybe they died right on time. "that they died early" is just another "theological assumption" necessary to support a "favorite paradigm".

Apparently you didn't hear... God promised LONG LIFE to the righteous!

That means, it's not His will for His people to die early... just because some do does not prove it was God's will for them to go out that way.

Here's a few scripture references that say God
promises long and and some explain HOW to obtain long life:

Proverbs 3:1,2
Psalm 91:10-16
Exodus 20:12
Ephesians 6:1-3
Deuteronomy 5:33
1 Kings 3:14
Deuteronomy 11:21
Job 5:26
Psalm 118:17
1 Peter 3: