Respect?

[God-free]

"Mike" is not a Christian but he attends a Christian school (a decision made for him by his parents). When the teachers and other students stand to pray, "Mike" always remains seated and quiet. Recently, one of the teachers was out for the day and a substitute teacher was brought in. When the class stood to pray, the substitute teacher told "Mike" to stand. "Mike" said no and explained that he is not Christian. The teacher told "Mike" to stand anyway as a gesture of respect. Not wanting to cause trouble "Mike" complied.

As I see it, "Mike" shows more than enough respect by remaining seated and silent during prayers. I also see it as a show of disrespect toward "Mike" to tell him to stand while others speak to a deity he doesn't believe in. Why do so many religious people feel ENTITLED to respect for their beliefs?

What do you think?

~Barbara

 

[Polycarp_fan]

"Mike" is not a Christian but he attends a Christian school (a decision made for him by his parents). When the teachers and other students stand to pray, "Mike" always remains seated and quiet. Recently, one of the teachers was out for the day and a substitute teacher was brought in. When the class stood to pray, the substitute teacher told "Mike" to stand. "Mike" said no and explained that he is not Christian. The teacher told "Mike" to stand anyway as a gesture of respect. Not wanting to cause trouble "Mike" complied.

As I see it, "Mike" shows more than enough respect by remaining seated and silent during prayers. I also see it as a show of disrespect toward "Mike" to tell him to stand while others speak to a deity he doesn't believe in. Why do so many religious people feel ENTITLED to respect for their beliefs?

What do you think?

~Barbara

He should remain seated if that is what he wants. A child of non believers shouldn't be of any concern to a Christian teacher.

He is what the Gospel is directed to.

My children go to a private Christian school, and they are very accepting of the non Christian kids, that attend the school for the obvious reasons.

 

[Washington]

I agree with both of you. You can't force respect, but you can force fear.

 

[God-free]

He should remain seated if that is what he wants. A child of non believers shouldn't be of any concern to a Christian teacher.

"Mike's" parents chose to send him to a Christian school. The OP doesn't mention what, if any, religious views his parents have.

He is what the Gospel is directed to.

I don't know what you mean by this. Is "Mike" the "He" in this sentence? Just curious since you say that "A child of non believers shouldn't be of any concern to a Christian teacher." Why do say this, by the way? It seems to me that students should be very much a teacher's concern.

My children go to a private Christian school, and they are very accepting of the non Christian kids, that attend the school for the obvious reasons.

That's nice but do you think "Mike" should've been told to stand during prayers as a gesture of respect? Do you think "Mike" was disrespected? Do you think religious people are entitled to respect simply because of their beliefs?

~Barbara

 

[gwenmead]

Why do so many religious people feel ENTITLED to respect for their beliefs?

My guess would be that it's because theism has been around for so long and has been such an essential part of the human psyche that it's considered the default position. Consequently, theism is not seen as anything unusual or abnormal; consequently, religious belief gets a free pass for all kinds of things, including respect.

Sounds like "Mike" in the above scenario was acting just fine. As a nonbeliever it would have been dishonest of him to stand and pray, but it would also be rude of him to be blatantly disruptive during prayer time as well. Sitting quietly sounds like an appropriate option in his case.

The substitute teacher insisting he stand sounds as if s/he were attempting to compel some additional gesture where it was not really warranted. What value is there in compulsory respect anyway? Respect is earned, not forced.

 

[jcook922]

He should remain seated if that is what he wants. A child of non believers shouldn't be of any concern to a Christian teacher.

Do you mean that the teacher should disregard the childs education as well?

 

[LoisGriffin]

When I went to a baseball match during my vacation in America everyone stood for the national anthem. I joined them in standing because I wanted to respect their traditions.

I have always believed in respecting those around you. I don't see the problem with standing quietly while everyone else is praying.

Where I live religious schools are choices and have rules so if parents want a child to go to that school they need to ensure their child respects the rules. There are plenty of non-religious schools too.

 

[cantata]

I have always believed in respecting those around you. I don't see the problem with standing quietly while everyone else is praying.

What do you think would be the negative consequences of sitting quietly rather than standing?

 

[LoisGriffin]

What do you think would be the negative consequences of sitting quietly rather than standing?

Well for a start not doing what the teacher told him.

Kids need to listen to the teachers (well they did in my day anyway)

 

[gwenmead]

Well for a start not doing what the teacher told him.

It sounds as if obedience to authority is one of your values. Correct?

If so, how absolute is said value? What circumstances would you consider warrant obedience, and to what degree?

 

[cantata]

Well for a start not doing what the teacher told him.

Kids need to listen to the teachers (well they did in my day anyway)

Should the teacher have told them to do it in the first place?

Is it unreasonable for a student to politely explain their reasons for preferring not to do what is asked of them, and for a teacher to consequently reassess their decision to issue the instruction?

I'm not sure teachers have a right to tell students to do pointless or unnecessary things. Unless you can come up with better than "it's somehow disrespectful in a vague sort of way", I don't think the instruction should have been issued in the first place.

 

[Washington]

Well for a start not doing what the teacher told him.

Kids need to listen to the teachers (well they did in my day anyway)

Err. The point at issue is not a matter of obeying or not obeying a teacher, but whether or not a teacher should even make standing obligatory.

 

[QuakerOats]

"Mike" is not a Christian but he attends a Christian school (a decision made for him by his parents). When the teachers and other students stand to pray, "Mike" always remains seated and quiet. Recently, one of the teachers was out for the day and a substitute teacher was brought in. When the class stood to pray, the substitute teacher told "Mike" to stand. "Mike" said no and explained that he is not Christian. The teacher told "Mike" to stand anyway as a gesture of respect. Not wanting to cause trouble "Mike" complied.

As I see it, "Mike" shows more than enough respect by remaining seated and silent during prayers. I also see it as a show of disrespect toward "Mike" to tell him to stand while others speak to a deity he doesn't believe in. Why do so many religious people feel ENTITLED to respect for their beliefs?

What do you think?

~Barbara

I can see both sides of the argument, although I don't see any reason why 'Mike' couldn't have remained seated during the prayer. What I mean is, it is a Christian school, and I suppose asking him to stand out of respect isn't really out of line in that regard, just more like something I don't see as being necessary, or worth making a scene over. My opinion would differ, however, if 'Mike' were told to participate in the actual saying of the prayer, as opposed to just standing for it.

 

[quatona]

"Mike" is not a Christian but he attends a Christian school (a decision made for him by his parents). When the teachers and other students stand to pray, "Mike" always remains seated and quiet. Recently, one of the teachers was out for the day and a substitute teacher was brought in. When the class stood to pray, the substitute teacher told "Mike" to stand. "Mike" said no and explained that he is not Christian. The teacher told "Mike" to stand anyway as a gesture of respect. Not wanting to cause trouble "Mike" complied.

As I see it, "Mike" shows more than enough respect by remaining seated and silent during prayers. I also see it as a show of disrespect toward "Mike" to tell him to stand while others speak to a deity he doesn't believe in. Why do so many religious people feel ENTITLED to respect for their beliefs?

What do you think?

I think it´s not the teacher´s business to decide for someone else in which way to show their respect. Standing up is an arbitrarily picked symbol for showing respect.

 

[God-free]

My guess would be that it's because theism has been around for so long and has been such an essential part of the human psyche that it's considered the default position. Consequently, theism is not seen as anything unusual or abnormal; consequently, religious belief gets a free pass for all kinds of things, including respect.

I'm sure you're right. I see this changing though and it's about time too.

Sounds like "Mike" in the above scenario was acting just fine. As a nonbeliever it would have been dishonest of him to stand and pray, but it would also be rude of him to be blatantly disruptive during prayer time as well. Sitting quietly sounds like an appropriate option in his case.

The substitute teacher insisting he stand sounds as if s/he were attempting to compel some additional gesture where it was not really warranted. What value is there in compulsory respect anyway? Respect is earned, not forced.

Agreed.

~Barbara

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When I went to a baseball match during my vacation in America everyone stood for the national anthem. I joined them in standing because I wanted to respect their traditions.

I would have done the same if I were visiting a foreign land but not because I felt any kind of obligation to do so. For me, it would have been a show of camaraderie.

I have always believed in respecting those around you. I don't see the problem with standing quietly while everyone else is praying.

I agree that people should be respectful of others when there is no reason not to be. "Mike" showed his respect for his peers and the teacher by sitting quietly as they stood and prayed. The problem is in the reason he was told to stand. I don't see why the teacher insisted on, or felt entitled to, a show of respect from someone who doesn't have respect for their beliefs. This expectation of respect that the 'faithful' have is what I have a problem with. Why do they feel entitled to it?

Where I live religious schools are choices and have rules so if parents want a child to go to that school they need to ensure their child respects the rules. There are plenty of non-religious schools too.

I don't think standing for prayers is a rule at "Mike's" school. If it was a rule I doubt he would have been bothered by this particular teacher's insistence that he do so.

~Barbara

 

[quatona]

Well for a start not doing what the teacher told him.

So the actual reason for the demand was not to show respect, but to show obedience?

Kids need to listen to the teachers (well they did in my day anyway)

Kids needn´t be obedient to unreasonable commands of their teachers (well they weren´t in my day anyway).

 

[God-free]

Does anyone think that "Mike" was disrespected by the teacher?

~Barbara

 

[jcook922]

I can see both sides of the argument, although I don't see any reason why 'Mike' couldn't have remained seated during the prayer. What I mean is, it is a Christian school, and I suppose asking him to stand out of respect isn't really out of line in that regard, just more like something I don't see as being necessary, or worth making a scene over. My opinion would differ, however, if 'Mike' were told to participate in the actual saying of the prayer, as opposed to just standing for it.

I do agree, perhaps they should have sent him to a secular private school, or god forbid a public school.

I went to public school, I don't see what's wrong with it and why people run in terror at the word these days. On the protecting the minds of children issue, I appreciate the fact that I was exposed to some of the more gritty elements of society through public school before I was an adult. Came out with more street smarts and a thicker skin for it.

 

[Braunwyn]

Does anyone think that "Mike" was disrespected by the teacher?

~Barbara

Technically, I think he was direspected but there are conditions with being a child and that often involves their wishes not being respected for good or bad. I'm assuming he isn't a teen since teens have more of a say in where they go to school, as private schools go. Since he's probably a kid than it would be very surprising if his parents are christian and he isn't. Ime, kids just go along with what they're told by parents. So, that angle doesn't make sense to me. If his parents are atheists and they're sending him to a christian school, then they are the one's who are disrespecting him.

 

[God-free]

Technically, I think he was direspected but there are conditions with being a child and that often involves their wishes not being respected for good or bad. I'm assuming he isn't a teen since teens have more of a say in where they go to school, as private schools go. Since he's probably a kid than it would be very surprising if his parents are christian and he isn't. Ime, kids just go along with what they're told by parents. So, that angle doesn't make sense to me. If his parents are atheists and they're sending him to a christian school, then they are the one's who are disrespecting him.

There are many circumstances under which you would be correct in saying a child's wishes wouldn't, or even shouldn't, be respected. I don't think this is one of them though. The impression I'm under is that the boy is old enough to know what he does and doesn't believe. However, he is a minor and must attend the school his parents chose for him. I assume, since his parents chose a Christian school, that they are either 1) Christians and want their child exposed to Christianity even if the child objects or 2) they are not Christian but consider the school to be of high caliber. Either way, the school officials are aware that "Mike" is not Christian. They accepted that fact when they accepted him as a student.

I do think "Mike" was disrespected by the teacher. This worries me because when young people deserve respect and don't receive it they can then become disrespectful adults. Personally, I want better for our children.

~Barbara