Resilience of fundamentalist religions

[MehGuy]

I think the Internet will still break down even the more resilient faithful.

I know it did for me. Parents and the like can only do so much to shelter a child, especially in this day and age.

 

[Galatea]

Fair enough. But I am going by experience in dealing with fundamentalist Christians both within the church and outside of it. Your words hold truth for sure and not everyone is a particular group is the same, but I don't see it that often. Too often I see the 'the Bible said it, that's good enough for me' mentality.

Thanks for your reply.

I think if people are honest with themselves, really honest, they will acknowledge doubting from time to time. Even Fundamentalists. The ones you are referring to may be afraid to voice their doubts, or afraid to confront them. Or perhaps keep them at a subconscious level.

I know I went through a severe period of doubting, and came out the other side more secure in my faith than ever.

I suspect they are afraid of their doubts, not remembering that God loves us even when we doubt Him. He is good, very good and His mercy endures forever.

 

[TheOldWays]

I think if people are honest with themselves, really honest, they will acknowledge doubting from time to time. Even Fundamentalists. The ones you are referring to may be afraid to voice their doubts, or afraid to confront them. Or perhaps keep them at a subconscious level.

I know I went through a severe period of doubting, and came out the other side more secure in my faith than ever.

I suspect they are afraid of their doubts, not remembering that God loves us even when we doubt Him. He is good, very good and His mercy endures forever.

Fair enough. Sounds like you are in a good place with your faith and that's a good thing.

 

[Galatea]

Fair enough. Sounds like you are in a good place with your faith and that's a good thing.

Thanks, I admit doubting God. Just this week I doubted He would be merciful toward me, even though I prayed for mercy. I prayed without any faith at all, or very little.

But, He extended mercy toward me, and I marveled again at His grace. It is a funny thing, but every time He is merciful it surprises me anew.

I do not doubt the security of my soul, not a bit. I just doubt Him in daily things which is ridiculous. I trust Him absolutely with my immortal soul, but doubt Him when it comes to my mortal life.

People are silly creatures.

The people I know intimately have doubted God from time to time. I think it is rather abnormal to never doubt.

I hope this makes sense.

 

[TheOldWays]

Thanks, I admit doubting God. Just this week I doubted He would be merciful toward me, even though I prayed for mercy. I prayed without any faith at all, or very little.

But, He extended mercy toward me, and I marveled again at His grace. It is a funny thing, but every time He is merciful it surprises me anew.

Indeed. Our human minds too often try and understand the divine using our own ideas and comprehension. It just doesn't work and leads to all sorts of struggles and misconceptions. I find it best to see the divine (or God) as a beacon in the dark. We may move around but the beacon is always there, always constant and never failing. We just have to find it again after our own methods have us running away from it.

I hope this makes sense.

It does.

 

[Zoness]

I think the Internet will still break down even the more resilient faithful.

I know it did for me. Parents and the like can only do so much to shelter a child, especially in this day and age.

This stands out to me and I think it is majorly true. The next generation is going to grow up in an era where the idea of ubiquitous connectivity is taken for granted. I can think of a couple places on the internet right now that are really breaking down the old religious boundaries much to the ire of some large religious organizations.

That said, I think its also going to bring about new forms of religion and its already starting to; think of the thousands of fandoms along with their elaborate community canons that have arisen since the Internet's inception. Some of them are already approaching the size and scale of religion and many have the hallmarks of it.

Now I'm not making the broad generalization that being a member of a fandom is the same as a religion but looking at the sociological attributes of internet communities, there are some really interesting comparisons to be made.

 

[bhsmte]

I have noticed that the most fundamentalist forms of religion seem to be the most resilient in the face of social trends that have eroded other religions. The fundamentalist Christian denominations are slowly increasing while the liberal denominations decrease. Globally, Islam seems to be increasing, and Islam seems quite fundamentalist to me (not claiming to be an expert of course). Part of the problem is birth rates. Fundamentalists tend to have more children for whatever reason.

If the future of the world must include religions, I would prefer for those religions to be harmonized with science, non-evangelistic, non-political, private rather than public, etc. Although belief in the infallibility of religious revelations (my definition of fundamentalism) does not necessarily imply that the religion will be a problem, in most cases it does. In some ways, I think the hard-line attitude of fundamentalist religions helps to prevent their members from following the slippery slope of open-minded research.

So it seems to me that fundamentalism is resilient for several reasons:
(1) concentration in cultures with high birth rates
(2) tendency to value family over career for religious reasons (?)
(3) hard-line attitude against skeptical information

Apparently atheism is going to decrease in the future due to China's aging population. As an atheist, that doesn't make me happy. LOL

Fundy type religions will always stick around, because they cater to a certain psychological profile, which are not going anywhere.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

If the success of a religion depended on birth rates, and if we inherited the religion of our parents like the colour of our hair, there would never be any variation. Luckily, we are not bound to their choices.

 

[cloudyday2]

I think the Internet will still break down even the more resilient faithful.

I know it did for me. Parents and the like can only do so much to shelter a child, especially in this day and age.

That is my hope. Unfortunately the Pew Forum surveys seem to show that all the losses are happening in the mainline Protestants and Catholics (to a lesser degree due to Hispanic immigration). The Pentecostals, Fundamentalist, and Evangelicals seem to be holding steady. I suspect that part of this can be explained by birth rate differences though. Probably the fundamentalists have more children.

 

[Albion]

More than Catholics who are barred by their church from using the usual birth control methods? Seems unlikely.

 

[cloudyday2]

More than Catholics who are barred by their church from using the usual birth control methods? Seems unlikely.

I was not aware that this was still an issue in the Catholic Church except in developing countries like Africa. I had read that some of the Catholic authorities in Africa were taking a hard line against birth control. This seemed to be a particularly cynical attempt to propagate Catholicism through a high birthrate in a region where overpopulation was a problem. In the industrialized countries, I thought Catholics routinely used birth control and the authorities tacitly accepted.

 

[Albion]

I was not aware that this was still an issue in the Catholic Church except in developing countries like Africa. I had read that some of the Catholic authorities in Africa were taking a hard line against birth control. This seemed to be a particularly cynical attempt to propagate Catholicism through a high birthrate in a region where overpopulation was a problem. In the industrialized countries, I thought Catholics routinely used birth control and the authorities tacitly accepted.

Well, they're not supposed to. How many exempt themselves from their Church's moral demands while still thinking of themselves as good Catholics is hard to estimate. I know Catholics in each category--those who adhere to the policies and those who don't but excuse themselves through some rationalization or other.

 

[Rajni]

I have noticed that the most fundamentalist forms of religion seem to be the most resilient in the face of social trends that have eroded other religions. The fundamentalist Christian denominations are slowly increasing while the liberal denominations decrease. Globally, Islam seems to be increasing, and Islam seems quite fundamentalist to me (not claiming to be an expert of course). Part of the problem is birth rates. Fundamentalists tend to have more children for whatever reason.

It may also have to do with what the group in question believes is at stake if they were to shift even a little from the party line.

If one is convinced that their eternal well-being is on the line, they'll likely not dare budge from a white-knuckled grip on their beliefs. Too much risk.

Been there, done that.

 

[Rajni]

That is my hope. Unfortunately the Pew Forum surveys seem to show that all the losses are happening in the mainline Protestants and Catholics (to a lesser degree due to Hispanic immigration). The Pentecostals, Fundamentalist, and Evangelicals seem to be holding steady. I suspect that part of this can be explained by birth rate differences though. Probably the fundamentalists have more children.

Even though I don't subscribe to everything that every religion espouses, I don't think I'd want them to fade out entirely. I like the variety, and it provides something for everyone. In some cases, like mine, they were a starting point. For me, being born into a Christo-centric environment, Jesus was definitely the door (as he said he was). It's what I'm finding beyond that door, after passing through it, that contains infinite possibilities, and therefore can't be crammed into any singular theological box.

 

[Cearbhall]

I can't really speak about religions, but I will say fundamentalist Christians, those who are saved, are the real church.

Ok, but are you using the term "fundamentalist Christian" in the way that it's usually meant? Fundamentalism isn't generally a positive or productive mindset. It doesn't simply refer to getting back to basics.

 

[Galatea]

Ok, but are you using the term "fundamentalist Christian" in the way that it's usually meant? Fundamentalism isn't generally a positive or productive mindset. It doesn't simply refer to getting back to basics.

I mean Fundamentalist as in people who believe in the fundamentals: that Christ is God incarnate, born of a virgin, lived a perfect life, died a substitionary death, and was raised bodily from the dead.

I mean that Christ is the only way to God, and that people are saved by faith through grace, and not of works.

That Christ is very God and very man.

These are the fundamentals, the primary things.

 

[Albion]

I mean Fundamentalist as in people who believe in the fundamentals: that Christ is God incarnate, born of a virgin, lived a perfect life, died a substitionary death, and was raised bodily from the dead.

In other words, you're using it in the historic and correct sense rather than as a perjorative term.

 

[cloudyday2]

In other words, you're using it in the historic and correct sense rather than as a perjorative term.

Here is a quote from a Wikipedia article that describes fundamentalism in a variety of religions - not just Christianity

Fundamentalism usually has a religious connotation that indicates unwavering attachment to a set of irreducible beliefs.[1] However, fundamentalism has come to be applied to a tendency among certain groups—mainly, though not exclusively, in religion—that is characterized by a markedly strict literalism as it is applied to certain specific scriptures, dogmas, or ideologies, and a strong sense of the importance of maintaining ingroup and outgroup distinctions,[2][3][4][5] leading to an emphasis on purity and the desire to return to a previous ideal from which advocates believe members have strayed. Rejection of diversity of opinion as applied to these established "fundamentals" and their accepted interpretation within the group is often the result of this tendency.[6]

Fundamentalism - Wikipedia

 

[Albion]

Here is a quote from a Wikipedia article that describes fundamentalism in a variety of religions - not just Christianity

Fundamentalism - Wikipedia

Wikipedia is good as a handy reference. Most people know that it's not the source to check if you want the best answer, though, especially since anyone can alter the content of the article.

Notice, however, how carefully (and evasively) the quasi-definition there was worded--

"Fundamentalism usually has a religious connotation that indicates unwavering attachment to a set of irreducible beliefs.[1] However, fundamentalism has come to be applied to a tendency among certain groups—mainly, though not exclusively, in religion—that is characterized by a markedly strict literalism as it is applied to certain specific scriptures, dogmas, or ideologies, and a strong sense of the importance of maintaining ingroup and outgroup distinctions,[2][3][4][5] leading to an emphasis...."

 

[cloudyday2]

Wikipedia is good as a handy reference. Most people know that it's not the source to check if you want the best answer, though, especially since anyone can alter the content of the article.

Notice, however, how carefully (and evasively) the quasi-definition there was worded--

"Fundamentalism usually has a religious connotation that indicates unwavering attachment to a set of irreducible beliefs.[1] However, fundamentalism has come to be applied to a tendency among certain groups—mainly, though not exclusively, in religion—that is characterized by a markedly strict literalism as it is applied to certain specific scriptures, dogmas, or ideologies, and a strong sense of the importance of maintaining ingroup and outgroup distinctions,[2][3][4][5] leading to an emphasis...."

LOL, I thought it was an excellent and thoughtful definition - not too far to the left and not too far to the right - just like Goldilocks.