Republican Party on the Decline?

[Savior2006]

Well, I can't speak for the other poster, but in terms of public schools creating the next generation of (D) voters, it's a point that holds some water.

Look at what's being taught in high schools in terms of civics and government classes...they'll spend days talking about the "importance" of unions & collectivism, but very seldom do they ever glorify individualism and entrepreneurship.

I guess I just never noticed. Or maybe it didn't happen and conservatives are just making it up to justify why people don't want to vote for them.

 

[Albion]

But, as a Christian, maybe if we let his world sink into liberalism, then maybe God will take pity on us and finally destroy it.

I've heard others say that, but I can't for the life of me conclude that letting everything that could be wrong in human society occur--without attempting to prevent it--would be good to do. Think of all the suffering and the horrors of the Twentieth Century and ask yourself if it tempted God to end it all. No, I figure he has his own timetable.

 

[William67]

I've heard others say that, but I can't for the life of me conclude that letting everything that could be wrong in human society occur--without attempting to prevent it--would be good to do. Think of all the suffering and the horrors of the Twentieth Century and ask yourself if it tempted God to end it all. No, I figure he has his own timetable.

Which is the only reason I continue to vote. And I will vote for anyone who isnt a leftist.

 

[ThisBrotherOfHis]

Actually, "folks" don't exactly think the party is in decline. What the OP said was that it "might be on the decline long term if it doesn't begin to appeal to more moderate voters." That's just speculation and was obviously based upon what the Democrats and the media have been peddling.

Be that as it may, many posts address the issue as though it is a foregone conclusion.

BTW, nominating Ben Carson would be a good way of making this kind of prediction come true, however. He's a good man, but would not be a wise choice for the 2016 election.

Yeah, I get that a lot. He makes too much sense for most people to "get it." Common sense is lacking in Washington. We need Dr. Carson and about 535 others just like him.

 

[Albion]

Be that as it may, many posts address the issue as though it is a foregone conclusion.

Yes, that's so. I was referring to the OP only and not to those who eagerly jumped on board.

I get that a lot. He makes too much sense for most people to "get it." Common sense is lacking in Washington. We need Dr. Carson and about 535 others just like him.

That's hardly the point. It does us little good to go down to defeat with a candidate who should have appealed to the voters or was right on all the issues--if we still go down to defeat.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I guess I just never noticed. Or maybe it didn't happen and conservatives are just making it up to justify why people don't want to vote for them.

I definitely noticed it in my time in public schools.

One of our civics projects was even to do mock business scenarios for union & non-union environment while doing that part of the course.

They had one student play the company owner and was instructed "You can made whatever rules you want", and then the other students were supposed to be the employees. Of course, it was setup intentionally to give the impression of "look how much better it is for the employees when they're unionized!"

...now, I'm not making a claim that it's some sort of "master plan" by democrats to keep their power by indoctrinating children...I know some other conservatives have that theory, but I don't.

I simply just see it as I see any other situation where adults are teaching youth... Adults are never going to be able to completely detach their personal feelings from the subject matter they're teaching when it comes to politics. We'd all be guilty of that...if I taught a history course, my libertarian opinions would show through regardless of how objective I tried to be about the subject matter.

It just so happens, that a large number of public teachers are left-leaning and pro-union (considering that most teachers are in situations where union membership is mandatory for their employment)...and most people who are pro-union tend to vote democrat.

...so that's what I'm referring to when I say that public education contributes to the next generation of democratic voters.

I don't think it's any coincidence that almost 70% of voters 18-21 vote Democrat. If you talk to anyone who's in that age range, they're not particularly informed on many of the issues (not knocking them, it's just that people in that age range typically have other interests), obviously that skewing isn't coming from their parents, if it was, we'd see that same 70/30 split among older age groups, but we don't see that. So if it's not parents that are influencing this, what other adults, who've had a large part in their lives, would have encouraged this? Doesn't leave too many other people other than clergy (which is highly unlikely) and teachers (far more likely).

...but like I said, I don't think it's some Democrat conspiracy to indoctrinate youth, I just think it's the fact that anyone who teaches is going to allow their personal opinions dictate how/what they say to a certain degree...and most public school teachers happen to be (D) voters.

 

[Savior2006]

I definitely noticed it in my time in public schools.

One of our civics projects was even to do mock business scenarios for union & non-union environment while doing that part of the course.

They had one student play the company owner and was instructed "You can made whatever rules you want", and then the other students were supposed to be the employees. Of course, it was setup intentionally to give the impression of "look how much better it is for the employees when they're unionized!"

...now, I'm not making a claim that it's some sort of "master plan" by democrats to keep their power by indoctrinating children...I know some other conservatives have that theory, but I don't.

I simply just see it as I see any other situation where adults are teaching youth... Adults are never going to be able to completely detach their personal feelings from the subject matter they're teaching when it comes to politics. We'd all be guilty of that...if I taught a history course, my libertarian opinions would show through regardless of how objective I tried to be about the subject matter.

It just so happens, that a large number of public teachers are left-leaning and pro-union (considering that most teachers are in situations where union membership is mandatory for their employment)...and most people who are pro-union tend to vote democrat.

...so that's what I'm referring to when I say that public education contributes to the next generation of democratic voters.

I don't think it's any coincidence that almost 70% of voters 18-21 vote Democrat. If you talk to anyone who's in that age range, they're not particularly informed on many of the issues (not knocking them, it's just that people in that age range typically have other interests), obviously that skewing isn't coming from their parents, if it was, we'd see that same 70/30 split among older age groups, but we don't see that. So if it's not parents that are influencing this, what other adults, who've had a large part in their lives, would have encouraged this? Doesn't leave too many other people other than clergy (which is highly unlikely) and teachers (far more likely).

...but like I said, I don't think it's some Democrat conspiracy to indoctrinate youth, I just think it's the fact that anyone who teaches is going to allow their personal opinions dictate how/what they say to a certain degree...and most public school teachers happen to be (D) voters.

I'm trying to think back to what we were taught in Civics class, but if memory serves it was basic "here's the function of government," "here's how a law passes/doesn't pass/gets overturned and that sort of thing.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I'm trying to think back to what we were taught in Civics class, but if memory serves it was basic "here's the function of government," "here's how a law passes/doesn't pass/gets overturned and that sort of thing.

Where I went to school, our civics/government classes also overlapped heavily into the territory of "Econ" class as well.

 

[Savior2006]

Where I went to school, our civics/government classes also overlapped heavily into the territory of "Econ" class as well.

Where did you go to school? Civics and Econ were two entirely separate things for me.

Of course, I do see your point about teacher being pro-union because public school teachers tend to be in a union. But, for most topics it shouldn't matter.

 

[Albion]

Of course, I do see your point about teacher being pro-union because public school teachers tend to be in a union. But, for most topics it shouldn't matter.

If you were in a union--because you were required to belong whether or not you wanted to belong--and that union constantly filled your mailbox and your union meetings with "hate management, hate the Republicans, hate anything religious," it probably would have an impact after awhile.

 

[PsychoSarah]

If you were in a union--because you were required to belong whether or not you wanted to belong--and that union constantly filled your mailbox and your union meetings with "hate management, hate the Republicans, hate anything religious," it probably would have an impact after awhile.

Yeah, I wouldn't know what to do with all my free confetti

 

[AceHero]

I take it you don't believe in voting for the lesser of two evils then? Even though you may not have liked everything about Romney in the last election, wouldn't he have been better than Obama?

I don't think he would have Both parties basically have the same ideology, but different ways of achieving it. Both parties have a view of government, society, and the world itself, that is to the left.

And yet in Europe both the Democrats and the GOP would be center-right parties.

I think they both aren't especially great, but I do consider Obama the lesser of two evils. Although I have to laugh at what would happen if he was impeached like so many people were screaming for

I'm sure President Biden would be an uplifting inspiration to our country...

That would've been hilarious.

All of your leaders are lying idiots. Toss EVERYONE of them out on their ear [gauntlet throw].

To be fair, it's hard to be angry when the Senate has an approval rating of 13% but the plebs are still so lost in rhetoric as to vote 91% of them back in. As an outsider, who could I REALLY wag a finger at?

Hey, I vote third party when I can!

Good post, as always, A2

Looks we might take the Senate and you the POTUS in 2016. We NEED to learn to work together.

Our Congress used to be one of compromise. I'm not exactly sure how compromise came to be seen as a bad word in American politics.

 

[William67]

Compromise isnt a bad word, but when the Dems started locking Republicans out of rooms, any inclination toward compromise went out the window. And dont forget, it was Dems who got rid of the filibuster. If the Republicans take over, dont expect them to play nice. Dont believe it happened? Heres a link to the old story:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2009/10/dems-lock-out-republicans-literally/

And people wonder why House Republicans havent been working with Dems.

 

[A2SG]

Our Congress used to be one of compromise. I'm not exactly sure how compromise came to be seen as a bad word in American politics.

I think it's mostly the modern day GOP, bolstered by the religious right and the tea party crowd, who see their view of the world as the ONLY one. They're the ones who seem to think a government shut down is a good idea, after all.

As for the rest of us, while we may argue with one another, often vehemently, all that rhetoric usually ends up with both sides presenting their ideas, and a deal being hammered out that, hopefully, reflects both views by taking the best ideas from all around and creating a workable idea.

Instead, we wind up with something like the ACA, which was originally the GOP's conservative answer to health care reform which, when no other ideas were deemed acceptable, was finally adopted pretty much whole cloth by the democrats. Only to see the GOP demonize it, decry it, and refuse to vote for what was originally their own idea.

How can you work with that?

-- A2SG, heck, even "fiercely conservative" Mitt Romney realized that scheme needed some form of public option, and created MassHealth.....

 

[AceHero]

Our Congress used to be one of compromise. I'm not exactly sure how compromise came to be seen as a bad word in American politics.

I think it's mostly the modern day GOP, bolstered by the religious right and the tea party crowd, who see their view of the world as the ONLY one. They're the ones who seem to think a government shut down is a good idea, after all.

As for the rest of us, while we may argue with one another, often vehemently, all that rhetoric usually ends up with both sides presenting their ideas, and a deal being hammered out that, hopefully, reflects both views by taking the best ideas from all around and creating a workable idea.

Instead, we wind up with something like the ACA, which was originally the GOP's conservative answer to health care reform which, when no other ideas were deemed acceptable, was finally adopted pretty much whole cloth by the democrats. Only to see the GOP demonize it, decry it, and refuse to vote for what was originally their own idea.

How can you work with that?

-- A2SG, heck, even "fiercely conservative" Mitt Romney realized that scheme needed some form of public option, and created MassHealth.....

I've often wondered how if elected Romney would have gotten around to repealing Obamacare since it was so closely related to the successful system he helped create in Massachusetts.

It's incredible how far we've gotten from meeting in the middle to having one party accept most of the other party's ideas just to have that party completely disassociate itself with those ideas when they're passed by the other party. It's absolutely infuriating.

 

[William67]

Romney is about as conservative as Chairman Mao. And Romneycare nearly bankrupted Massachusetts.

Under Obamacare, Ive had to lay off people and drop insurance for my workers. If I hadnt, insurance would have eaten up what little profits I had and I would have soon gone out of business.

 

[A2SG]

I've often wondered how if elected Romney would have gotten around to repealing Obamacare since it was so closely related to the successful system he helped create in Massachusetts.

It may be successful in some ways (more people do have health insurance now than used to), it's also created more than a few problems as well. It ain't perfect, by a long shot.

It's incredible how far we've gotten from meeting in the middle to having one party accept most of the other party's ideas just to have that party completely disassociate itself with those ideas when they're passed by the other party. It's absolutely infuriating.

The democrats haven't gotten much better, given that some have started to adopt the same ideas and tactics of the GOP, but at least the ideal of cooperation hasn't been lost on them. Sometimes to their detriment, such as with the Dodd-Frank act which, after GOP input became much more watered down and feckless, and the GOP still didn't vote for it.

But, however bad the democrats have gotten, even at the height of their protests with President Bush over Iraq, no one in the democratic leadership ever said their "number one goal" was to ensure that Bush was a "one-term president." That indicates a severe lack of even the illusion that you're trying to work together.

-- A2SG, ayup....

 

[A2SG]

Romney is about as conservative as Chairman Mao.

That's not so. He's exactly as conservative as he feels he needs to pretend to be to get elected. When he ran for Senate here back in 1994, he ran to the left of Ted Kennedy. Then he was "fiercely conservative" when he ran for President.

He twists with the winds of change.

And Romneycare nearly bankrupted Massachusetts.

It's been problematic, granted...but not quite that catastrophic.

Under Obamacare, Ive had to lay off people and drop insurance for my workers. If I hadnt, insurance would have eaten up what little profits I had and I would have soon gone out of business.

Which is why I fully support moving to single payer.

-- A2SG, but that's kinda off topic, so....

 

[Archaeopteryx]

The reason Im an independent is that the Republicans have become too wimpy. In all honesty, I would blow my brains out before voting for a liberal. Voting for a liberal would be tatamount to endorsing every vile abomination out there.

But, as a Christian, maybe if we let his world sink into liberalism, then maybe God will take pity on us and finally destroy it.

God will destroy the world if we make it a better place? Sometimes I struggle to understand conservative Christian reasoning.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

While those things might be a sham...

Regular Welfare
Over-taxation
Minimum Wage
Public Sector Unions
Social Security

...are also a sham.

The notion that a handout will pull someone out of poverty is false
The notion that you can fix the ills of society by taking 20-30% of someone's income is false
The fact that public sector unions (and thus their union dues) are funded from taxpayer money, and that money being used to endorse specific candidates is a travesty and completely undermines how our political process is supposed to work.
The fact that an additional tax is being levied against us under the guise that "it's money we're setting aside for your future" is both dishonest and a sham.

It depends on what you consider a "handout." In my experience, to Republicans, almost every government program is construed as a "handout," regardless of whether it improves social mobility or otherwise. In other places around the world this sort of thinking seems peculiar, bizarre even. Many of the tributes for recently deceased former Australian PM Gough Whitlam centred on the education and healthcare reforms catalysed by his short-lived but influential government. These reforms would undoubtedly be impugned as "handouts" by American conservatives who know little better than their current system.