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Replacing the 12th Apostle

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by Laureate, Oct 12, 2012.

  1. mercy1061

    mercy1061 Newbie

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    When some eat at the dinner table, they give thanks for the food....

    The bones are included in the meat before the bones are spit out, then of course, the bones are sometimes given to the dogs to eat......

    The dogs; of course, are happy to eat the bones....

    If the dogs are not careful when they eat the bones, they may choke on the bones....

    Let us examine a very strange conversation between Yeshua and a Canaanite woman;

    I agree with Yeshua it it not right to give children's bread to dogs; in my father's house, dogs are only given bones that the children sitting at the table do not eat.....

    Matt 15:26
    He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."

    Yet this Canaanite woman makes a arguement that dogs eat the crumbs; I never seen dogs eat bread crumbs that fall from the table; I guess I never noticed this detail that this Canaanite woman saw....

    According to this Canaanite woman; dogs should NOT eat the bread for the children sitting at the dinner table, but the bread crumbs that fall from the dinner table. After the bread crumbs fall to the floor, the bread crumbs would be considered by some to be unclean....

    In my father's house, the bread crumbs are normally swept up and thrown into the trash can....

    I guess it would not be difficult for the dogs to swallow bread crumbs as opposed to eating and swallowing bones. The bread crumbs would be easier to digest for the dogs and would prevent allot of choking...

    If the bread crumbs fell; before reaching the floor the dogs ate it; I guess the bread crumbs would be still be clean and appropriate for dogs.....
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2012
  2. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

    +7,322
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    I have one of those quick picker upper dogs, always under the table vacuuming the crumbs up. :D
     
  3. yedida

    yedida Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!

    +1,410
    In Relationship
    My cats work it quite differently. They will sniff around the floor, if they like the aroma, they'll sit and wait for the plate. Once the plate is on the floor, they'll clean it up and then clean the crumbs on the carpeting. If the aroma is not to their liking, they'll leave the crumbs and curl up for a nap somewhere 'clean,' with some very definite 'ho-hum' yawns to show their disinterest.
     
  4. Avodat

    Avodat Contending for Biblical truth

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    ?!

    I was using the term not in a scriptural sense as your post implies but, rather, in human sense. We do not normally eat the bones and the meal is best enjoyed if you leave the bones and eat the meat. If you do not know how to discern the one from the other you will do yourself great harm!

    PS my dog eats bread crumbs - and bones!
     
  5. mercy1061

    mercy1061 Newbie

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    In my father's house, the dog was not allowed to live in my father's house, but only outside in the back yard; behind the fence. So you see, whatever she ate was given to her or like Yeshua says "thrown" to her; the dog was never allowed around the dinner table. The only way the dog was allowed to eat bread crumbs is if she was disobedient (like a street dog) and went into the trash can......

    My father named our dog "lady".....
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2012
  6. mishkan

    mishkan There's room for YOU in the Mishkan! Supporter

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    My two cents...

    "Crumbs" probably should not be understood as literally a couple of white flecks from your bread. It means the leftovers--remnants deemed unworthy by the human diners.

    The Samaritan woman recognized that she was not regarded as a worthy participant in Jewish culture and religion, but she had no qualms about standing around and waiting for handouts from those Jewish people who would accept her... like Yeshua.

    The idea is one of priority, not quality or quantity. People eat first, then the dogs. Yeshua made a similar statement in other places, using the metaphor of the servant. The Master of the House eats first, then the servant gets to sit down and eat after he has done his chores.
     
  7. yedida

    yedida Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!

    +1,410
    In Relationship

    And the good, conscientious Master will always be sure that the 'left-overs' are enough to not only sustain, but satisfy the hard-working servant.
     
  8. mercy1061

    mercy1061 Newbie

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    Amen.
     
  9. mishkan

    mishkan There's room for YOU in the Mishkan! Supporter

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    Yes, I'd have to go along with that.

    The rabbis have a saying: "Heaven may place a limit on how much income we are allowed to earn; but there is no limit on how much Torah we can learn."
     
  10. Lulav

    Lulav Older than ZIP Codes Supporter

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    Yet in Judaism it is taught that we must feed and tend to our animals first before ourselves. Did not Yeshua say that he had other 'meat' when the disciples returned to him in Samaria? He was tending to the 'animals', those of Samaria, which were considered dogs, and after that he would feed himself.

    This is taught in the Talmud, reference Berachot 40a. It is derived from Torah in Deut. 11:15.
     
  11. ContraMundum

    ContraMundum Messianic Jewish Christian Supporter

    +2,821
    Australia
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    Well, you didn't insert your quotations correctly, so I cannot respond to your points properly.

    I'm not a woman. You do not follow worldly fads. Fine. Please extend this to your doctrine.

    Fine. I really don't mind how you are raised, I just take issue with abuse of scripture. You can't blame me, can you?

    Next time please respond with proper thread ettiquette so I can at least answer your claims.
     
  12. ContraMundum

    ContraMundum Messianic Jewish Christian Supporter

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    Because you constantly miss obvious points.

    a)I would give sound reason if you posted properly

    b) You have prejudice against Paul because it challenges your need to be religious/ritualist and invest in a quasi/pseudo-Jewish self-righteousness, based on the mad proposition that you keep "torah" and the moronic, misled and hapless Christians who are living in a haze can not. Face it, NT Christianity is just too hard. It''s easier to rock up to pseudo-Jewish holidays (probably in your own back yard anyway) and claim you are serving the Lord and better than the poor stupid Christians than to give someone the cloak off of your own back, as they do when they take seriously the moral obligations of the Olivet discourse.

    This is exactly the kind of logic leaping that you engage in that really just looks absurd to me. I have yet to hear a real Christian theologian praise Paul above Jesus. In fact, if you read Paul, it's ALL about Jesus. That's his good point! People who read Paul pick up on this very quickly. You apparently missed that. I often think that Paul's Jesus is bigger and more Divine than your "Yeshua", and that drives you nuts.

    You do, in fact, read Paul wildly out of context, and the bits that you don't like about him, you have in the past insisted weren't legit to begin with. You make absurd claims like "the letters of Paul were insterted into scripture by men" but are apparently oblivious to the fact that the whole Bible, Torah included, was compiled into a canon by men. In fact, there are more traces of ancient Near-Eastern paganism in the Torah than generic paganism in Paul's wwritings. I really wonder why you don't apply the Devil's blow-torch of undermining the Word to the Torah like you do to Paul.

    If you had done me the courtesy of properly quoting your posts, then I would have answered them point by point. I cannot respond due to your lack of forum ettiquette. Considering you have been here so long I am quite surprised.

    Anyway, there are so many logical fallacies, so many mixed measures and differing weights and so much you have disregarded from the actual text of the NT that only a masocist would spend long periods of time responding to each point. I was willing at least to give a brief response.
     
  13. Lulav

    Lulav Older than ZIP Codes Supporter

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    nm
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2012
  14. ContraMundum

    ContraMundum Messianic Jewish Christian Supporter

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    Australia
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    np
     
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