Grip Docility

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Correct! Jesus isn't a harlot! Israel is!

To thy Seed, singular, in the promises to Abraham is different than the "Thy SEEDS" portion of the promises to Abraham.

Thy SEED (Singular) is foreshadowing of the BOC
Thy SEEDS (Plural) is foreshadowing Jacob (Israel)

Jesus is the Son of God incarnate. The Son of God incarnate is Who Paul identifies as the One that "Followed Israel" in the wilderness, and Led Israel.

The Son died.

Israel is Widowed!

Do you now believe that the BOC is widowed? If you say the BOC is not a NEW MAN, you immediately place the OC back into full force... per Ephesians 2. I posted it earlier and noone touched it.
 
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Dave L

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Correct! Jesus isn't a harlot! Israel is!

To thy Seed, singular, in the promises to Abraham is different than the "Thy SEEDS" portion of the promises to Abraham.
Only one people of God, not two.
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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Galatians specifies to thy seed (Singular) which is the reference to the BOC.

The Land and Nation promises were to thy seeds (Plural)...

Jacob and Abraham.. are two separate matters. Your application of this passage is binding to Romans 9-11... which specifies the "Sand of the Sea" towards Israel cut off.

Also, Judah and Israel aren't the BOC.
the stakes are high as to how this will play out but fortunately for both of us the application to be ready for the Lord is the same. If Im right than there is great significance to Jerusalem and the 3rd temple as that would be the stage for the man of sin or antichrist to commit the abomination of desolation in. Seeing as how the 3rd temple looms one might reconsider the idea that Israel is no more a nation in Gods eyes. If you look up the UN earth charter and see what powers and principalities are working towards a global government that also will be a cashless society there is more than enough evidence that this alliance is evil and it fits the futurist scenario of Daniels 70th week and the tribulation being the same things. The rise in antisemitism is out of control and Bible believing Christians are being set up for persecution in the West right now with things like the equality act. You are free to hold whatever position you like but events are arcing in the expected trajectory and woe is coming to the entire earth.
 
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Grip Docility

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the stakes are high as to how this will play out but fortunately for both of us the application to be ready for the Lord is the same. If Im right than there is great significance to Jerusalem and the 3rd temple as that would be the stage for the man of sin or antichrist to commit the abomination of desolation in. Seeing as how the 3rd temple looms one might reconsider the idea that Israel is no more a nation in Gods eyes. If you look up the UN earth charter and see what powers and principalities are working towards a global government that also will be a cashless society there is more than enough evidence that this alliance is evil and it fits the futurist scenario of Daniels 70th week and the tribulation being the same things. The rise in antisemitism is out of control and Bible believing Christians are being set up for persecution in the West right now with things like the equality act. You are free to hold whatever position you like but events are arcing in the expected trajectory and woe is coming to the entire earth.

I can appreciate your Grace in offering an agreement to disagree, followed up by unification in our purpose, within the BOC. Well done!

You mention the UN... Are you aware it has a near Islamic majority, now? Also, it is adamantly sided against Israel.

Though, you seem to be keeping up. I respect your approach!
 
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Grip Docility

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Only one people of God, not two.

Correct. The Body of Christ... As ALL Pauline doctrine teaches. (Peter and James even specify to the Diaspora.)

Ephesians 2:15 He did away with the law of the commandments in regulations, so that He might create in Himself one new man from the two, resulting in peace.
16 [He did this so] that He might reconcile both to God in one body through the cross and put the hostility to death by it.

New means Neo... New! It is not the Old. If you desire Covenant Theology to be True, you have to say the Old Covenant Passed away, (Was fulfilled) and now we are under THE NEW Covenant.

In order to do this... We have to all be in A NEW MAN.

You can't have your cake and eat it too! Either we are Israel, and not grafted into the NEW MAN, or we are the Body of the New man.

Israel = OC
BOC = NC
 
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Dave L

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Correct. The Body of Christ... As ALL Pauline doctrine teaches. (Peter and James even specify to the Diaspora.)

Ephesians 2:15 He did away with the law of the commandments in regulations, so that He might create in Himself one new man from the two, resulting in peace.
16 [He did this so] that He might reconcile both to God in one body through the cross and put the hostility to death by it.

New means Neo... New! It is not the Old. If you desire Covenant Theology to be True, you have to say the Old Covenant Passed away, (Was fulfilled) and now we are under THE NEW Covenant.

In order to do this... We have to all be in A NEW MAN.

You can't have your cake and eat it too! Either we are Israel, and not grafted into the NEW MAN, or we are the Body of the New man.

Israel = OC
BOC = NC
I don't believe Covenant Theology is accurate.
 
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Grip Docility

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I don't believe Covenant Theology is accurate.

Well, at least you see that the OC is still in play, to condemn those not in Christ and to show mankind it's need for Christ.

That's actually more biblically accurate than the typical Lock, Stock and Barrel Collegiate, Pastoral, Reformed teaching of Covenant Theology.

I can tip my hat to you on that.
 
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com7fy8

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I see not one promise of the Land to the Church (maybe we are akin to the Levites), but I do see this to Abraham...
You are clear. But we are children of Abraham. So, what is to him is to us, too. But in the New Testament, there might not be this geographical detail mentioned, since "the world" is ours, not only the Land > 1 Corinthians 3:22.

Plus, physical earth is not what we are mainly about. Because we are "rooted and grounded in love" > Ephesians 3:17.

So, while worldly ones are playing their war games and mind games and political games about who owns which land, we own it all, already. And so "we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us" > in Romans 8:37. We already own what conquerors are trying to get, and our methods are superior to those of conquerors; what we can do with things is superior. We can rest and enjoy :)

So, our Covenant supersedes the early one, plus we supersede all conquerors, their methods, and all they can try to get > and pretend they control < we cooperate with however God is in control of conquerors for His purpose > like how Joseph submitted to how God used Pharaoh and Joseph's brothers for God's all-loving good > Genesis 50:15-21.
 
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Grip Docility

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Genesis 17:6 And I will make thee exceeding* fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. (This is the Singular portion of the Seed/Jesus Galatians 3:16 usage and it is the foreshadowing of the BOC)

..................From here forward... the use of Seed becomes Plural... Seed/Their, which is in stark contrast to the above, where in Gen. 17:7, Seed is attached to thy seed after Thee, and indicative of Isaac... which foreshadows (Christ).........................

8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

9And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations,he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger*, which is not of thy seed.

13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.


14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

After Genesis 7:7, which is Paul's specific Citation in Galatians 3:16.... We can see that the usage of SEED becomes Plural and is tied to Physical Circumcision... as well as land promises... that include exclusionary verbiage... of those Plural (Not of THY SEED ... plural implied)
 
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RT is a straw man dispies use to sucker the unlearned into believing them.
Dispy is a straw man RTs use to sucker the unlearned into believing them.
 
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So, our Covenant supersedes the early one,
I know what you are saying, I just don't see anywhere where it is revealed that the Abrahamic Covenant is annulled or superseded due to the NC. The Mosaic Covenant, yes most definitely according to the Book of Hebrews.
 
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Barney2.0

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Well there is no such thing as replacement theology, you can’t replace something that never existed in the first place. In the times before Christ any Jew who obeyed the law was considered chosen by God and any gentile who kept the Noahide commands was chosen. After Christ fulfilled the law anyone who packed their salvation in him was chosen whether Jews or Gentiles. Jews were never the chosen people based on them being Jews it was based on how well every individual Jew could keep the law and the commandments so there replacement theology since Jews weren’t chosen on the basis of them being Jews.
 
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Grip Docility

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Jews were never the chosen people based on them being Jews it was based on how well every individual Jew could keep the law and the commandments so there replacement theology since Jews weren’t chosen on the basis of them being Jews.

giphy.gif


Deuteronomy 7:6

"For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth."

This follows Deuteronomy 6:4 .... Which literally starts out "Hear, Oh ISRAEL"
 
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Barney2.0

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giphy.gif


Deuteronomy 7:6

"For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth."

This follows Deuteronomy 6:4 .... Which literally starts out "Hear, Oh ISRAEL"
To be a people for his own possession to keep the law, not every Jew born is automatically chosen he had to keep the law and currently believe in its fulfillment through the person of Jesus Christ.
 
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Grip Docility

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To be a people for his own possession to keep the law, not every Jew born is automatically chosen he had to keep the law and currently believe in its fulfillment through the person of Jesus Christ.

Not one Jew, except the ONE, kept the Law. It was always about the day of the Atonement. Israel is the "Shadow" of the BOC. Deuteronomy 31:26 is wise to understand.

ONE Jew did keep it, and we call Him Lord God, Jesus Christ.
 
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klutedavid

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Only unbelieving Israel was removed. The faithful ie: Jewish Christians remain as natural branches. Only believing gentiles were grafted in, joining faithful Israel.

No one is replaced. No one is superseded.

Faith in Christ allows believing Jews to remain on the tree and allows believing gentiles to join the believing Jews on the same tree.
Negative, the nation of Israel was grafted out and this cannot be debated.

We are not talking about a handful of believing Jews, ewq. History clearly verifies that the covenant that God had with the nation of Israel was terminated.

The tree that was historical Israel was cut down by God, the tree did not bear fruit.

The house that was the nation of Israel in the Old Testament, vanished within or just after the New Testament letters were written.

They did not recognize the time of their visitation by the Holy One and those covenant people no longer exist.
 
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Grip Docility

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Negative, the nation of Israel was grafted out and this cannot be debated.

We are not talking about a handful of believing Jews, ewq. History clearly verifies that the covenant that God had with the nation of Israel was terminated.

The tree that was historical Israel was cut down by God, the tree did not bear fruit.

The house that was the nation of Israel in the Old Testament, vanished within or just after the New Testament letters were written.

They did not recognize the time of their visitation by the Holy One and those covenant people no longer exist.

Why you could even say the "Testator" of the OC passed away, thus bringing forth something New. :D
 
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klutedavid

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Well there is no such thing as replacement theology, you can’t replace something that never existed in the first place. In the times before Christ any Jew who obeyed the law was considered chosen by God and any gentile who kept the Noahide commands was chosen.
The problem was that no one could keep the law because all were fallen, all were unrighteous. Jesus did not arrive to save the righteous folk rather Jesus came to save sinners, lawbreakers.
After Christ fulfilled the law anyone who packed their salvation in him was chosen whether Jews or Gentiles. Jews were never the chosen people based on them being Jews it was based on how well every individual Jew could keep the law and the commandments so there replacement theology since Jews weren’t chosen on the basis of them being Jews.
This is where you are incorrect. The covenant that God made on Mt Sinai was with the nation of Israel alone, the corporate descendants of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob.

Jesus was sent specifically to the Jews, Jesus was not sent to the Gentiles. The scripture is very clear on this point.

Gentiles were never the natural branches we Gentiles needed to be grafted into the root.
 
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Basically nobody actually teaches "Replacement Theology", what the historic and orthodox teaching of Christianity is, as what Scripture itself very explicitly teaches, is that Israel and the Church are the same People, the same body. Israel is the Church, the Church is Israel. God has always had a People who belong to Him through faith. That is why St. Paul is clear that Abraham is our father in the faith, not the father of the Jews only, but father of all the Faithful, Jew and Gentiles; as the promise given to Abraham is Jesus Christ who is the Seed of Abraham. And in Christ both Jew and Gentile are united as one body.

Those before Christ looked forward in faith to Christ. And we today have the fullness of Christ. The Word became flesh, being conceived in the womb of the Virgin Mary by the power of the Holy Spirit, He is Jesus the Christ, the One about whom all who came before longed for and hoped for: Emmanuel, the Son of David, the Root of Jesse, the Seed of Abraham, the Son of Man.

We can't go so far as to say that unbelieving Israel isn't Israel at all, they are still Israel in that, as Jews, they are heirs of the promises made to them through Moses on Mt. Horeb; just as during the time of Elijah many in Israel had become faithless, there remained a faithful remnant. Paul uses this imagery of the time of Elijah to speak of the present faithlessness of much of Israel, while also speaking of the faithful remnant who have believed in God's Messiah. St. Paul, recognizing this current situation looks forward, with hope, to a time when all of Israel, not just the faithful remnant, will be saved. How or what that looks like is not told to us, but it does mean that Christians do err if we consider the Jews somehow completely outside of God's designs and grace.

So there is an important and fine point that must be made: The Dispensationalist rejection of the Gospel by insisting that Christ's precious Gospel is only a temporary thing given, and that God's "real" plan is simply to carry on an earthly territory in the Levant which is entirely apart from Christ, His work, and the fullness of God in Him and all the holy promises given fulfilled in Him; this schema must be denied for what it is: a dangerous rejection of Christ and His Everlasting Gospel of salvation for all sinners for all times, the Gospel of the kingdom of God, inaugurated and manifest through Christ and His Church until all things are consummated in the end and Jesus hands the kingdom over to His Father and God is all in all. Likewise, we must not think that unbelieving Israel is completely and utterly cut off from God, as the Apostle himself says that though the unbelieving have been pruned away, he nevertheless (as mentioned already) looks forward in hope to the salvation of all Israel. As such, the Church must never be the antagonist against any people, but in a special way the historic antagonism, and indeed antisemitism, of the Christian Church is particularly heinous--both for its severity, and for its betrayal of hope.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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