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Replacement Theology Found in Scripture?

weariedsoul

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let me ask you something:

is the Israel of God a people of the flesh or a people of the Spirit?

Im just stating a fact, which is although its true that the church is the true Israel, this doesn't mean God has forsaken the nation Israel. Im not stating the idea as fact just the possibility of it as fact, im actually asking you all your opinions and pondering it more than anything, im not the prophecy expert so i can't say one way or the other, but i tend to think that God isnt done with the nation Israel yet.
 
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Frogster

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Please read post #116. You have been mixing dispensational blessings. Individual salvation remains with the same requirement through Christ by faith no matter the dispensation. Romans 9, 10 and 11 has to do with Israel as a nation and not the individuals therof.

The dispensational blessings are that Israel was promised an Earthly Kingdom when our calling today is the Heaven far above all. There is a "new creation" in the individual at salvation which is the new nature sown by the Word of God. That remains the same for ALL believers. There is also the corporate body of believers called the "one new man" but that is post Acts 28. This "one new man" has all distinctions wiped out and does not involve the "olive tree". That tree was hewn down at Acts 28. We are endowed with ALL spiritual blessings far beyond the promises of Abraham. Our blessings are in Heavenly places.

Individual salvation holds that God sees everyone on equal terms.
Before Acts 28 there was a difference between Israelites and the Gentiles inthat the Gentiles were proselytes as the olive tree shows. That distinction vanished and only vanished after Acts 28. It is reconciliation on the Cross that allowed the Gentiles and Israel to be on the same level. Israel, as a nation, is no longer first in this economy. God will turn back to them in the book of Revelation.

Am I misunderstanding your view?

for all generations, the church, grace in all the ages, and the church, it's not about a land mass, or a race. Jews are wlecome to join the church of the gospel of grace.:)


Eph 2:7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.


, Eph 3:21 to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, forever and ever. Amen.
 
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Lysimachus

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By my active participation with SDA people I will never be convinced Replacement Theology is not actively taught in their church.

Through superficial language, such as "The Church has replaced Israel", you will hear it within Adventism, no doubt. But sadly, and unfortunately, these Adventists are simply individuals who simply do not grasp the deeper understandings of our own pioneers concerning this matter, and look at it on an very elementary level---then giving the wrong impression to others.

Ellen White herself has an entire section about the Jews. She believes there will be a remnant of Jews. It's just the difference in perception, however. Ellen White and historic Adventists for that matter believed that there will be a literal remnant of Jewish people--but not as a separate national entity--rather, as "included" in the Body of Christ.

To get the full scoop on what Ellen White taught concerning the Jews, I encourage you to read her full letter on it:

The Work Among the Jews

"In this letter (Romans) Paul gave free expression of his burden in behalf of the Jews. Ever since his conversion, he had longed to help his Jewish brethren to gain a clear understanding of the gospel message. 'My heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is,' he declared, 'that they might be saved.'

"It was no ordinary desire that the apostle felt. Constantly he was petitioning God to work in behalf of the Israelites who had failed to recognize Jesus of Nazareth as the promised Messiah. 'I say the truth in Christ, 'he assured the believers at Rome, 'my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, that I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises.

"The Jews were God's chosen people, through whom He had purposed to bless the entire race. From among them God had raised up many prophets. These had foretold the advent of a Redeemer who was to be rejected and slain by those who should have been the first to recognize Him as the Promised One."

"Even though Israel rejected His Son, God did not reject them. Listen to Paul as he continues the argument: 'I say then, Hath God cast away His people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew. Wot ye not what the Scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying Lord, they have killed Thy prophets, and digged down Thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to Myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.'

"Israel had stumbled and fallen, but this did not make it impossible for them to rise again. In answer to the question, 'Have they stumbled that they should fall? the apostle replies: 'God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: if by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead.'"

"Notwithstanding Israel's failure as a nation, there remained among them a goodly remnant of such as should be saved. At the time of the Saviour's advent there were faithful men and women who had received with gladness the message of John the Baptist, and had thus been led to study anew the prophecies concerning the Messiah. When the early Christian church was founded, it was composed of these faithful Jews who recognized Jesus of Nazareth as the one for whose advent they had been longing. It is to this remnant that Paul refers when he writes, 'if the first-fruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.'"

"Through unbelief and the rejection of Heaven's purpose for her, Israel as a nation had lost her connection with God. But the branches that had been separated from the parent stock God was able to reunite with the true stock of Israel - the remnant who had remained true to the God of their fathers. 'They also,' the apostle declares of these broken branches, 'if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.' If thou,' he writes to the Gentiles, 'wert cut out of the olive-tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive-tree? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

"Notwithstanding the awful doom pronounced upon the Jews as a nation at the time of their rejection of Jesus of Nazareth, there have lived from age to age many noble, God-fearing Jewish men and women who have suffered in silence. God has comforted their hearts in affliction, and has beheld with pity their terrible situation. He has heard the agonizing prayers of those who have sought Him with all the heart for a right understanding of His word. Some have learned to see in the lowly Nazarene whom their forefathers rejected and crucified, the true Messiah of Israel. As their minds have grasped the significance of the familiar prophecies so long obscured by tradition and misinterpretation, their hearts have been filled with gratitude to God for the unspeakable gift He bestows upon every human being who chooses to accept Christ as a personal Saviour."

"When this gospel shall be presented in its fulness to the Jews, many will accept Christ as the Messiah. Among Christian ministers there are only a few who feel called upon to labor for the Jewish people; but to those who have been often passed by, as well as to all others, the message of mercy and hope in Christ is to come.

"In the closing proclamation of the gospel, when special work is to be done for classes of people hitherto neglected, God expects His messengers to take particular interest in the Jewish people whom they find in all parts of the earth. As the Old Testament Scriptures are blended with the New in an explanation of Jehovah's eternal purpose, this will be to many of the Jews as the dawn of a new creation, the resurrection of the soul. As they see the Christ of the gospel dispensation portrayed in the pages of the Old Testament Scriptures, and perceive how clearly the New Testament explains the Old, their slumbering faculties will be aroused and they will recognize Christ as the Saviour of the world. . . . . To them will be fulfilled the word, 'As many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the Sons of God, even to them that believe on His name.' (John 1:12)

"Among the Jews are some who, like Saul of Tarsus, are mighty in the Scriptures, and these will proclaim with wonderful power the immutability of the law of God. The God of Israel will bring this to pass in our day. His arm is not shortened that it can not save. As His servants labor in faith for those who have been long neglected and despised, His salvation will be revealed." - The Acts of the Apostles, Chapter 35.

"In a most remarkable manner, the Lord wrought upon the heart of Marcus Lichtenstein, and directed the course of this young man to Battle Creek, that he might there be brought under the influence of the truth, and be converted;.... His education in the Jewish religion would have qualified him to prepare publications. His knowledge of Hebrew would have been a help to the office in the preparation of publications through which access could be gained to a class that otherwise could not be reached. It was no inferior gift that God gave to the Office in Marcus." - Testimonies for the Church, Vol. III, page 206.

"The time has come when the Jews are to be given light. The Lord wants us to encourage and sustain men who shall labor in right lines for this people; for there are to be a multitude convinced of the truth, who will take their position for God. The time is coming when there will be as many converted in a day as there were on the day of Pentecost, after the disciples had received the Holy Spirit.

"The Jews are to be a power to labor for the Jews; and we are to see the salvation of God." - From a sermon delivered at the General Conference, at Washington, D.C., in 1905.

"There is a mighty work to be done in our world. The Lord has declared that the Gentiles shall be gathered in, and not the Gentiles only, but the Jews. There are among the Jews many who will be converted, and we shall see the salvation of God going forth as a lamp that burneth.

"There are Jews everywhere, and to them the light of present truth is to be brought, that they may have an opportunity to accept it. There are among the Jews many who will come to the light, and who will proclaim the immutability of the law of God with wonderful power. The Lord God will work. He will do wonderful things in righteousness.

"Let not those who have not engaged in personal, evangelistic work feel that every one should look at things as they do. Let God work in His own way, and keep your hands off those whom He is using in the cities.

"We must get away from our smallness and make larger plans. There must be a wider reaching forth. We must work for those who are near, and those who are far off."--From a sermon given at the General Conference, Washington, D. C., 1905.

"It has been a strange thing to me that there were so few who felt a burden to labor for the Jewish people, who are scattered throughout so many lands. Christ will be with you as you strive to strengthen your perceptive faculties, that you may more clearly behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. The slumbering faculties of the Jewish people are to be aroused. The Old Testament Scriptures, blending with the New, will be to them as the dawning of a new creation, or as the resurrection of the soul. Memory will be awakened as Christ is seen portrayed in the pages of the Old Testament. Souls will be saved from the Jewish nation, as the doors of the New Testament are unlocked with the key of the Old Testament. Christ will be recognized as the Saviour of the world, as it is seen how clearly the New Testament explains the Old. To them the words will be fulfilled, 'As many as received Him to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name.' They will be changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. They will be partakers of the divine nature. The image of divinity will be stamped upon their souls. If they will continue to learn of Christ, they will attain to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

"Oh that many of the Jewish people may open the chambers of the mind. . . I am so glad that you are so successful in your work. Let us gain strength by exercising increased faith, moving onward and upward step by step, from victory to victory.

"Be of good courage in the Lord. May He continue to bless you, as He has blessed you in the past, is my prayer. . . . . --From a Personal Testimony, March 28, 1903.

"Concerning the work in behalf of the Jewish people being done by Brother -----, I am instructed to say, Give him all the encouragement that is possible. Do not bind about his work by many forbiddings. Help him, so that through his efforts, and the efforts of his fellow-laborers, many of the seed of Israel may be grafted to the true stock, Christ Jesus. . . . . .

"To Brother ----- I would say, You must be guarded. Do not tax your powers so severely. Hitherto the Lord has been with you, and He will continue to bless your efforts, and will lead others to unite with you in your work. But you are in danger from more sources than one. Your enemies will be incensed against you because this truth is being carried to the Jews. My brother, the Jewish people are not the only ones who are being helped by your work. Our own people need the example set before them.

"I bid you be of good courage. In your labors do not wait for some great and wonderful opening, but seize the opportunities as they come. The power of truth will be vindicated as the servants of God make faithful use of the opportunities that present themselves for labor."

"We can see a much more decided work is being done in our cities than in the past. We are to preach the gospel to the Jews as well as to the Gentiles. The glorious message of the power of God unto salvation is to be made known unto all men. We are to bring far more of simplicity and Bible godliness into our work for the Lord. There is to be no erecting of barriers, no depending on human agencies for wisdom. Our work is to be given as freely to the Jews as to the Gentiles." --From a Personal Testimony, January, 1908. (Pamphlets, 114, pp. 1-11)​
 
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weariedsoul

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This scripture is interesting. A mystery revealed from paul


Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?


Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
 
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weariedsoul

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Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
 
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Clare73

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Doesnt the bible talk about Israel being restored? Its not like God has turned His back on them altogether. THey will join us eventually wont they?
Restored usually means restoration to an earthly kingdom of power.

That promise has been fulfilled, and there is no Scriptural warrant for a future earthly kingdom.

Yes, those who believe in Jesus Christ will join us.

In the faith,
Clare
 
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Clare73

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Yes and a true Jew is he who is circumcised in the heart, i agree. It just seems like Jew is a bad word on CF, it just bothers me i guess.
It's unbelieving Jew that is the bad word in the Scriptures, as is unbelieving Gentile.

In the faith,
Clare
 
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weariedsoul

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Restored usually means restoration to an earthly kingdom of power.

That promise has been fulfilled, and there is no Scriptural warrant for a future earthly kingdom.

Yes, those who believe in Jesus Christ will join us.

In the faith,
Clare

Im not referring to an earthy kingdom of God, just a restoration of Israel the nation.
 
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brinny

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i see Israel as spiritual as well. God has not forsaken His people. He, as a matter of fact, has risen up gentiles, like me and planted a love for Israel, inexplicably in our hearts. The entire Bible weaves together as a beautiful tapestry from Genesis to Revelation, and comes full circle and it is through Israel as it is written it would be.

"And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." ~Genesis 12:3

"Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders." ~Isaiah 49:22
 
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Stryder06

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Lysimachus I am still not convinced. I deal with way to many SDA people and others that have. You may have posted an official statement. I simply do not find it a reality in the real world. Sorry.

bugkiller

In the "real world" you've probably dealt with less than 1% of the Adventist population. There are many people within our church who believe many things. That doesn't mean that they speak on behalf of the SDA organization.
 
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brinny

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If it was prophesied that Israel would be restored as a nation, (and it was restored in the year 1948), then this is an awesome sign to the unbelieving Jews, which God has given them, it seems like it serves the Gospel message in a powerful way.

I concur, for it is written. God never changes. His promises, ALL of them, will come to fruition.
 
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Clare73

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If it was prophesied that Israel would be restored as a nation, (and it was restored in the year 1948),
No, it was restored after the Babylonian exile, around 500 BC.

1948 is not the prophesied restoration.

In the faith,
Clare
 
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brinny

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Originally Posted by Clare73
No, it was restored after the Babylonian exile, around 500 BC.

1948 is not the prophesied restoration.

In the faith,
Clare

That has no bearing on prophecy regarding it, which has been fulfilled.

In the faith,
Clare

based on what, sister in Christ and daughter of the Most High God?
 
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tzadik

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No, it was restored after the Babylonian exile, around 500 BC.

1948 is not the prophesied restoration.

In the faith,
Clare

Actually the prophesied restoration of Biblical Israel has not yet happened.
(unless you're referring to Jeremiah 29 :))
 
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