Replacement Theology Found in Scripture?

bugkiller · Oct 14, 2012

No the Gospels are not a continuation of the OT.

16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. LK 16

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. JN 1

Both of these verses show a break from the OT/OC.

Are Gentiles being called Israelites?

Abraham has two covenants - one concerning the flesh and another concerning the spiritual blessing to be bestowed upon all.

I like the rest of the discussion and think it is right on the money. Obviously I am a little confused by the total post though.

bugkiller

Frogster · Oct 14, 2012

one body, in the abrahamic gospel, one promise for both. simple simple simple.

3:6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

one new man, after...after after jewish law abolishment, CREATE a new KAINOS man, simple simple simple.

2:15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,

bugkiller · Oct 14, 2012

No both Isrealites and Gentiles are not branches of the olive tree (Israel). As Christians they are both branches of the new (if you will) olive tree by graft into the Root.

Isrealites must enter thru the door just like Gentiles. They are not automaticly redeemed Christians possessing salvation outside of Jesus Christ.

bugkiller

Lion King · Oct 14, 2012

Frogster said:
overpress here, a branch is a branch.

besidess, it's not about flesh anymore, it's about a new creation, 2 cor 5:17.

not flesh.

. Rom 9:8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.

I understand, but I am only going with what brother Paul said in the Scriptures.

And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.

You will say then, Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in. Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. Romans 11:17-22

Was brother Paul wrong in his writings that Israel are the natural branches of the olive tree, and the Gentiles are the wild branches grafted onto the tree?

Lion King · Oct 14, 2012

MamaZ said:
God has already provided salvation to Isreal. Christ Jesus the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. There will be one body. If you read further into the scripture you will read where God divorced Isreal. Hosea I believe. not too sure though.

Won't the LORD restore the nation of Israel in the future?

This is why there are two covenants. The Old and the New. you read in revelations about the 144 thousand that are predestined as well as we all are. We also read that not all who say they are Isreal are really. The 144000 are Jews. God still loves Isreal. But now they have to come through the only door and gate. Christ.

I always thought everyone had to come through Christ, even the patriarchs of Israel (Abraham, Isaac, Moses, David etc)? Has that not always been the case for the Jews?

Frogster · Oct 14, 2012

Lion King said:
I understand, but I am only going with what brother Paul said in the Scriptures.

And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.

You will say then, Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in. Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. Romans 11:17-22

Was brother Paul wrong in his writings that Israel are the natural branches of the olive tree, and the Gentiles are the wild branches grafted onto the tree?

it doesn't matter, a branch is a branch, and they are not the tree. do u know what overpressing a text is?

with all due respect, read eph 2, it was about a spiritual temple, being built, that had nothing to do with flesh.

and go tell the jews that to be in the new man, it is after thier law gone...hehehe 2:15.

I see you can't refute my verses, u r just straining at the branch theme.

Frogster · Oct 14, 2012

Lion King said:
Won't the LORD restore the nation of Israel in the future?

I always thought everyone had to come through Christ, even the patriarchs of Israel (Abraham, Isaac, Moses, David etc)? Has that not always been the case for the Jews?

But romans is about all coming into salvation, it is not at all pushing nationalism.

Lion King · Oct 14, 2012

...sometimes, I do not understand what you are saying Frogster, and unfortunately, this is one of those times. With all due respect, of course.

Frogster · Oct 14, 2012

Lion King said:
...sometimes, I do not understand what you are saying Frogster, and unfortunately, this is one of those times. With all due respect, of course.

is romans 9-11 about promoting nationalism?

and in eph 2, does paul head towards a spiritual temple, THAT being the household, or does he somehow head into a land mass or nationalism?

when u read 2;11 where he entered into the 2 factioning parties, he was trying to show that contrary to the supremacy mindset of the jew, they who called the gentiles "the uncircumcised" in 2;11, that that stuff is all over now, he wanted them to know the riches of Christ in chpater 3, the church in 3, he was in no way promoting nationalism, racisim, or judaism, that would be totally foreign to the text.

Lion King · Oct 14, 2012

Forgive me, but as I said before, I have not a clue at what you are talking about? Who is promoting nationalism, racism and judaism?

Good day and God bless.

James4_14 · Oct 14, 2012

Frogster said:
one body, in the abrahamic gospel, one promise for both. simple simple simple.

3:6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

one new man, after...after after jewish law abolishment, CREATE a new KAINOS man, simple simple simple.

2:15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,

Please read post #116. You have been mixing dispensational blessings. Individual salvation remains with the same requirement through Christ by faith no matter the dispensation. Romans 9, 10 and 11 has to do with Israel as a nation and not the individuals therof.

The dispensational blessings are that Israel was promised an Earthly Kingdom when our calling today is the Heaven far above all. There is a "new creation" in the individual at salvation which is the new nature sown by the Word of God. That remains the same for ALL believers. There is also the corporate body of believers called the "one new man" but that is post Acts 28. This "one new man" has all distinctions wiped out and does not involve the "olive tree". That tree was hewn down at Acts 28. We are endowed with ALL spiritual blessings far beyond the promises of Abraham. Our blessings are in Heavenly places.

Individual salvation holds that God sees everyone on equal terms.
Before Acts 28 there was a difference between Israelites and the Gentiles inthat the Gentiles were proselytes as the olive tree shows. That distinction vanished and only vanished after Acts 28. It is reconciliation on the Cross that allowed the Gentiles and Israel to be on the same level. Israel, as a nation, is no longer first in this economy. God will turn back to them in the book of Revelation.

Am I misunderstanding your view?

Clare73 · Oct 14, 2012

bugkiller said:
No both Isrealites and Gentiles are not branches of the olive tree (Israel).

Actually, Israel are the branches of the tree, Israel is not the tree.

The branches of unbelieving Israel were cut off the tree at the death of Christ, and the branches of believing Gentiles
were grafted into the trunk of the tree.

The trunk would be Christ, the branches abide in Christ, the trunk.

The holy roots are the patriarchs, from whom the trunk, Christ, sprang forth.

The tree is the body of Christ of believing Jews and believing Gentiles, which is the Church, the one people of God.

There are not two people of God.

In the faith,
Clare

Clare73 · Oct 14, 2012

James4_14 said:
Please read post #116. You have been mixing dispensational blessings. Individual salvation remains with the same requirement through Christ by faith no matter the dispensation. Romans 9, 10 and 11 has to do with Israel as a nation and not the individuals therof.

The dispensational blessings are that Israel was promised an Earthly Kingdom

And that promise was fulfilled in 1Kg 4:21, 24-25.

The only land promises remaining are to the church (Mt 5:5; Ro 4:13; 2Pe 3:10, 13; Rev 21:1-4).

In the faith,
Clare

weariedsoul · Oct 14, 2012

Doesnt the bible talk about Israel being restored? Its not like God has turned His back on them altogether. THey will join us eventually wont they?

Super Kal · Oct 14, 2012

weariedsoul said:
Doesnt the bible talk about Israel being restored? Its not like God has turned His back on them altogether. THey will join us eventually wont they?

those who repent and have faith will join back in. they aren't in automatically just because of their blood... this suggests that man can be in heresy, sin, and all kinds of lust, and yet be saved because he is a Jew by blood...

the Bible teaches one is not saved by blood or by Jewish lineage, but by grace through faith

weariedsoul · Oct 14, 2012

Super Kal said:
those who repent and have faith will join back in. they aren't in automatically just because of their blood... this suggests that man can be in heresy, sin, and all kinds of lust, and yet be saved because he is a Jew by blood...

the Bible teaches one is not saved by blood or by Jewish lineage, but by grace through faith

Yes and a true Jew is he who is circumcised in the heart, i agree. It just seems like Jew is a bad word on CF, it just bothers me i guess.

Clare73 · Oct 14, 2012

weariedsoul said:
Doesnt the bible talk about Israel being restored? Its not like God has turned His back on them altogether. THey will join us eventually wont they?

Israel was restored after the Babylonian exile (Ne 12:43),
and is a prophetic pattern/type of the restoration of all creation in the NT (2Co 5:17; Gal 6:15).
The fulfillment of the ages is in the church (1Co 10:11), not in a future restoration of Israel.

In the faith,
Clare

weariedsoul · Oct 14, 2012

Clare73 said:
Israel was restored after the Babylonian exile (Ne 12:43),
and is a prophetic pattern/type of the restoration of all creation in the NT (2Co 5:17; Gal 6:15).
The fulfillment of the ages is in the church (1Co 10:11), not in a future restoration of Israel.

In the faith,
Clare

Of course but just because the Church is the true Israel doesn't mean God hasn't also promised that Israel the nation would be restored, it was actually in 1948 i think.

Super Kal · Oct 14, 2012

let me ask you something:

is the Israel of God a people of the flesh or a people of the Spirit?

bugkiller · Oct 14, 2012

Well I guess every one is right and every one else is wrong. Interesting. The Christian does not become a physical or a spiritual Israelite ever. In fact there is even no Jew in Christ Jesus in Whom we have our being.

bugkiller

Replacement Theology Found in Scripture?

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