Repentance in the Reformed Confessions of Faith

[5thKingdom]

1. You could easily end my embarrassment by simply providing the scripture upon which you base your bold claim that SOME MEN CANNOT REPENT ... which is all that I have ever asked for: Scripture to prove your Dogma.

You will need to understand the IMPLICATIONS of regeneration.
All (real) repentance is the RESULT of salvation - it is a "fruit"
of salvation. When I show you verses where Jesus teaches
that some men were NEVER MEANT to be saved, then that
means they were never capable of (real) repentance since
they were never regenerated.


This is why I have told you several times you need to THINK
more deeply. You need to understand the IMPLICATIONS
of being regenerated - or NOT being regenerated.


Jim


BTW... I have already provided SCRIPTURES to you several times
from Mark 4 and Romans 3 and Romans 9 and John 6.
You only need "ears to hear" and "eyes to see"
what those Scripture teach.


And you are PRETENDING to yourself if you think this is
MY DOGMA, when this is a basic and essential part of the Gospel.

.

 

[BBAS 64]

Therein lies my objection when someone claims that some Lions are UNABLE TO EAT GRASS. I completely agree that the Lion is UNWILLING to eat grass, but I can find no scripture that says God made some Lions UNABLE to eat grass. So I argue that the refusal to eat grass is the lion’s choice rather than God’s command.

Good Day, Atpollard

In case you missed it.. I said "The Lion is physically able to to eat grass"
They are unwilling thus are unable...and they will not because they can not, and they will not because it is not within there nature to do so.

In Him,

Bill

 

[BBAS 64]

“Repentance is Granted, by God.”
So you say. My response is “where does scripture state that?”

“What happens if God does not choose to grant repentance?”
Before I answer that, should we not first establish that God DOES grant repentance in the first place.

To avoid confusion, I offer the following thoughts on “repent”.

1. [Mat 4:17 NASB] 17 From that time Jesus began to preach and say, "Repent,[G3340] for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
2. [Act 2:38 NASB] 38 Peter [said] to them, "Repent,[G3340] and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
3. The word “repent” in both verses is Strong’s G3340.
4. μετανοέω metanoéō, met-an-o-eh'-o; from G3326 and G3539; to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction):—repent.
5. From μετά (G3326) and νοέω (G3539):
   • μετά metá, met-ah'; a primary preposition (often used adverbially); properly, denoting accompaniment; "amid" (local or causal)
     
   • νοιέω noiéō, noy-eh'-o; from G3563; to exercise the mind (observe), i.e. (figuratively) to comprehend, heed:—consider, perceive, think, understand.
6. Thayer’s Greek Lexicon:
   • μετανοέω, μετάνω; future μετανοήσω; 1 aorist μετενόησα; from (Antiphon), Xenophon down; the Sept. several times for נִחַם; to change one's mind, i. e. to repent (to feel sorry that one has done this or that, Jonah 3:9), of having offended someone, Luke 17:3f; with ἐπί τίνι added (the dative of the wrong, Hebrew עַל, Amos 7:3; Joel 2:13; Jonah 3:10; Jonah 4:2), of (on account of) something (so Latinme paenitet alicujus rei), 2 Corinthians 12:21; used especially of those who, conscious of their sins and with manifest tokens of sorrow, are intent; on obtaining God's pardon; to repent (Latinpaenitentiam agere): μετανοῶ ἐν σάκκῳ καί σποδῷ, clothed in sackcloth and besprinkled with ashes, Matthew 11:21; Luke 10:13. to change one's mind for the better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins: Matthew 3:2; Matthew 4:17; Mark 1:15 (cf. Matthew 3:6 ἐξομολογούμενοι τάς ἁμαρτίας αὐτῶν; Matthew 3:8 and Luke 3:8 καρπούς ἀξίους τῆς μετανοίας, i. e. conduct worthy of a heart changed and abhorring sin); (Matthew 11:20; Mark 6:12); Luke 13:3, 5; Luke 15:7, 10; Luke 16:30; Acts 2:38; Acts 3:19; Acts 17:30; Revelation 2:5, 16; Revelation 3:3, 19; on the phrase μετανοεῖν εἰς τό κήρυγμα τίνος, Matthew 12:41 and Luke 11:32, see εἰς, B. II. 2 d.; (Winer's Grammar, 397 (371)). Since τό μετανοεῖν expresses mental direction, the termini from which and to which may be specified: ἀπό τῆς κακίας, to withdraw or turn one's soul from, etc. (cf. Winers Grammar, 622 (577); especially Buttmann, 322 (277)), Acts 8:22; ἐκ τίνος, Revelation 2:21; Revelation 9:20; Revelation 16:11(see ἐκ, I. 6; (cf. Buttmann, 327 (281), and Winer's Grammar, as above)); μετανοεῖνκαί ἐπιστρέφειν ἐπί τόν Θεόν, Acts 26:20; followed by an infinitive indicating purpose (Winer's Grammar, 318 (298)), Revelation 16:9. (Synonym: see μεταμέλομαι.)

Given the above, I view “repentance” as the ability to mentally acknowledge that sin is sin (thus agreeing with God rather than the world). It is am important step towards being reborn, but it is not synonymous with the God given Birth from Above.

Good Day,

Not a problem here at all....

I would say repentance is a result of being reborn. It is though the rebirthing by the will of God we are only able to obey the commands of God. There fore it is the direct result and purpose of the rebirthing.

2Tim 2:25

correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,

YLT : in meekness instructing those opposing -- if perhaps God may give to them repentance to an acknowledging of the truth,

God grants (gives) repentance for the direct purpose of leading to the knowledge of truth.

If God chooses not to grant it, there is absolutely no knowledge of truth.

In Him,

Bill

 

[Brightfame52]

No, I have not conflated anything.
Men who were NEVER MEANT to be saved are
(a) destined to damnation and
(b) not able to repent





You politely requested Scripture to refute your claim and
I politely PROVIDED several examples of Scripture.
That REFUTE your doctrine. I will re-post them for you:


The FIRST TIME I posted #1-#4 (below) you completely
ignored them. Would you be so polite (this time) to actually
ADDRESS the passages I provided to you? Please do not
PRETEND this information is not PART of the Gospel by
intentionally ignoring it.


(1) It REALLY does not matter what you believe. The Bible is clear,
and history confirms, some men were NEVER MEANT to be saved.
Tell me... during the Jewish Kingdom, how many Gentiles were saved?
Of course the answer demonstrates how many Gentiles were
NEVER MEANT to be saved.


(2) Mark 4:11-12 teaches that some men were NEVER MEANT
to "perceive" or "understand" or "be converted" or to ever have
"their sins forgiven". Clearly men who were not meant to have
"their sins forgiven" are men NEVER MEANT to be saved.


(3) Romans 9 speaks of God CREATING some men to be
"vessels of mercy" (they were meant to be saved) and others as
"vessels of wrath" (they were NEVER MEANT to be saved).


God also speaks of CREATING some men to be "vessels of honor"
(they are meant to be saved) and others as "vessels of dishonor"
(they are NEVER MEANT to be saved).


(4) Jesus explained in Matthew 13 that the church consists
of MANY unsaved "tares/goats" sown by Satan and destined
to the same fire prepared for Satan and his demons (clearly
these men were NEVER MEANT to be saved). Jesus also
speaks of some in the church who are saved "wheat/sheep"
sown by God and destined to eternal life (clearly those men
are meant to be saved)


(5) The Bible is very clear, there are three (3) types of people
(1) the saved "wheat" in the church destined to heaven
(2) the unsaved "tares" in the church, destined to hell
(3) the lost souls OUTSIDE the church, also destined to hell


If you do not understand this CONTEXT of the Bible then you
have little hope of understanding the MEANING of passages
which talk about ONE (1) of these three (3) groups of men.


BTW... I understand that the Biblical FACT that some men
were NEVER MEANT to be saved immediately destroys the
false gospel that all men are ABLE to be saved. But that
does not change this Biblical FACT.


And, the fact that God commands all men to repent does NOT
mean that ANY man is ABLE to repent. The fact is, NO MAN
is able to repent until AFTER he is regenerated.


Repentance is the RESULT of regeneration...
and never the CAUSE.





First, I am not disputing that men are COMMANDED to repent
or that they are ACCOUNTABLE for not repenting. However,
(as shown in examples #1-#4 above) the fact that some men
are NEVER MEANT to be saved (or believe/repent) does not
negate the command to do so.


Secondly... it is not ME that "paints God as the author of sin",
that is just a strawman you have constructed to protect your
system from contradicting what GOD HAS SAID.


I gave you examples #1-#4 (above) where GOD (not me)
shows some men were NEVER MEANT to be saved or repent.
You do not have to LIKE what the Bible teaches and you do not
have to ACCEPT what the Bible teaches... but you are only
embarrassing yourself by saying that the WORD OF GOD
(shown in examples #1-#4) are just my words.


So go ahead... try to refute what GOD has taught
in examples #1-#4 instead of constructing a strawman
that I make God the author of sin - while you intentionally IGNORE
the Gospel teachings provided in examples #1-#4 (above)





You do not have to LIKE or ACCEPT the Biblical teaching that
NO MAN can come to Jesus unless the Father "draws" them
and ALL MEN the Father draws "shall come" to Christ and He
will lose NONE of them....


The Bible is very clear that men are UNABLE to come to God
unless they are "elect". That is why the Bible declares in boththe
OT and NT that NO MAN will ever "seek God" (no, not even one)
unless they are regenerated [Rom 3:10-12]






So you have never read that:

MANY are called ["called" by the Gospel]
but FEW are chosen ["chosen" to be saved]


You do not have to LIKE the Gospel, you do not have to
ACCEPT the Gospel... you can even call the Gospel "folly",
but you are mocking the WORD OF GOD (not me)





But GOD has already responded to that (humanistic) doctrine:
Read the following passage CLOSELY because it is addressing
the SAME ARGUMENT you make - God is a cruel tormentor.


Rom 9:19
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,


As I already showed you (but you chose to IGNORE)
God creates "vessels of mercy" (elect) and "vessels of wrath"
God creates "vessels of honor" (elect) and "vessels of dishonor"
You do not have to LIKE what the Gospel teaches... but you
can never CHANGE the Gospel by ignoring what it teaches.





Remember, everyone (both the "wheat and tares") are born
"wicked" and NONE will ever "seek God" (no, not even one)
unless they are elect. But that Gospel FACT does not mean
the unsaved "tares" sown by Satan can decide to become
the saved "wheat" sown by God.


So... how about ADDRESSING the SCRIPTURES presented
in #1-#4 (above) instead of continuing to CONFLATE what
the Bible says about the saved "wheat" with what it says
about the unsaved "tares"... they are NOT the same.


I have made it VERY SIMPLE for you.
Just REFUTE #1, then #2, then #3 and then #4
Can you do that?


Jim

Does God command the Vessels of wrath He created to repent ? If so why ? He created them for everlasting destruction did He not ? Repentance is unto life Acts 11:18

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

 

[Butterball1]

Arguing...is a work as it says

Matthew 12:41 Jesus said those men of Nineveh repent at the preaching of Jonah. And Jonah 3:10 says of Nineveh's repenting: "And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not."

Their repentance is called a work that God saw, just as the work of those men in Mark 2:4 was a work Christ saw and the work of those men was called 'faith' Mark 2:5. So both repentance and faith are called works....works that could be seen.