Repentance in the Reformed Confessions of Faith

[disciple Clint]

Well some believe that repentance is simply a change of mind from not believing to believing and that repentance doesn’t actually involve refraining from sin.

OK technically repentance is a change of mind if you translate from the Greek but that change is prompted by our acceptance of Jesus and a change in our values.

 

[BNR32FAN]

OK technically repentance is a change of mind if you translate from the Greek but that change is prompted by our acceptance of Jesus and a change in our values.

According to the biblical definition of repentance it is more than just a change of mind. It’s a change of our way of life. It was also used in the military meaning to make a 180 degree turn or an about face. Repentance is turning away from sin and towards God.

 

[BBAS 64]

At least you are refuting me with Scripture instead of opinions.

I agree that the “mind set on the flesh” (which would be the “natural man” of 1 Corinthians 2 or all of us in Ephesians 2:1-4) cannot submit to the God’s law (which would be summarized in the Greatest Commandments of Love God and Love People in Luke 10:27). However I would counter that King David was unable to fulfill the Law (he needed a savior just like we do), yet David was able to repent of his sin when confronted by the Prophet. This suggests that there might be a difference between “submitting to God’s Law” and “repenting of our missing the mark”.

I am not suggesting that sinners DO repent, but rather I posit that the reason why they do not repent is a heart that is UNWILLING to repent rather than a heart that is physically incapable of turning to God.

When Adam sinned, he hid himself until God CALLED Adam to come to God. Was Adam unable to go to God and repent or was Adam merely unwilling to go to Adam. Later God warned Cain that sin was waiting to ensnare him. Was Cain unable to heed God’s warning or merely unwilling to listen? What does it say about God to warn Cain that he is about to sin if Cain is powerless to heed God’s warning and repent? What does it say about Cain and God if Cain has the ability to repent, but was personally unwilling to obey God?

That is the issue that I see at stake in the claim that men CANNOT repent, yet God calls all men to repent. That is why the confessions tend to carefully word it that God PREDESTINES to salvation, but God merely “passes over” the reprobate. Scripture never says that God is responsible for men’s sinful condition except in the sense that God allows it. Romans 1 provides an excellent illustration. God does not make men evil, God merely “gives them over” (allows) their innate evil desires to run their course.

Good Day, Atpollard

Yes I did but you have not addressed any scripture I posted nor their direct implications.

Can I maybe get an answer here:

Repentance is Granted, by God. What happens if God does not choose to grant repentance?

correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth"

The Lion is physically able to to eat grass, but is unwilling and would rather starve to death why is that?

Again you wrongly assume that the commands are dependent on the actions of the creatures and not based on the authority of the creator. He does what he wishes that is what makes Him God the creator.

There is not one historically reformed person that I aware of that said" man is not responsible for their own sin". God does not make men evil that is correct they are evil by nature.. they hate light and love sin.

God and Sin

..... snip...

"While God controls and restrains human sinfulness, He is not responsible for the actions of wicked people. His sovereign government over everything is maintained, but He is not responsible for sin—fallen men are responsible for their actions. We are endowed with freedom to act according to our nature. Because our nature is fallen, depraved, and sinful, apart from the grace of God we freely sin. When God hardens the hearts of people like Pharaoh He is not compelling them to act contrary to anything within themselves. Mankind will continue to sin freely as long as God permits it."

The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Can God stop a man from sinning?

In Him,

Bill

 

[atpollard]

Can I maybe get an answer here:

“Repentance is Granted, by God.”
So you say. My response is “where does scripture state that?”

“What happens if God does not choose to grant repentance?”
Before I answer that, should we not first establish that God DOES grant repentance in the first place.

To avoid confusion, I offer the following thoughts on “repent”.

1. [Mat 4:17 NASB] 17 From that time Jesus began to preach and say, "Repent,[G3340] for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
2. [Act 2:38 NASB] 38 Peter [said] to them, "Repent,[G3340] and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
3. The word “repent” in both verses is Strong’s G3340.
4. μετανοέω metanoéō, met-an-o-eh'-o; from G3326 and G3539; to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction):—repent.
5. From μετά (G3326) and νοέω (G3539):
   • μετά metá, met-ah'; a primary preposition (often used adverbially); properly, denoting accompaniment; "amid" (local or causal)
     
   • νοιέω noiéō, noy-eh'-o; from G3563; to exercise the mind (observe), i.e. (figuratively) to comprehend, heed:—consider, perceive, think, understand.
6. Thayer’s Greek Lexicon:
   • μετανοέω, μετάνω; future μετανοήσω; 1 aorist μετενόησα; from (Antiphon), Xenophon down; the Sept. several times for נִחַם; to change one's mind, i. e. to repent (to feel sorry that one has done this or that, Jonah 3:9), of having offended someone, Luke 17:3f; with ἐπί τίνι added (the dative of the wrong, Hebrew עַל, Amos 7:3; Joel 2:13; Jonah 3:10; Jonah 4:2), of (on account of) something (so Latinme paenitet alicujus rei), 2 Corinthians 12:21; used especially of those who, conscious of their sins and with manifest tokens of sorrow, are intent; on obtaining God's pardon; to repent (Latinpaenitentiam agere): μετανοῶ ἐν σάκκῳ καί σποδῷ, clothed in sackcloth and besprinkled with ashes, Matthew 11:21; Luke 10:13. to change one's mind for the better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins: Matthew 3:2; Matthew 4:17; Mark 1:15 (cf. Matthew 3:6 ἐξομολογούμενοι τάς ἁμαρτίας αὐτῶν; Matthew 3:8 and Luke 3:8 καρπούς ἀξίους τῆς μετανοίας, i. e. conduct worthy of a heart changed and abhorring sin); (Matthew 11:20; Mark 6:12); Luke 13:3, 5; Luke 15:7, 10; Luke 16:30; Acts 2:38; Acts 3:19; Acts 17:30; Revelation 2:5, 16; Revelation 3:3, 19; on the phrase μετανοεῖν εἰς τό κήρυγμα τίνος, Matthew 12:41 and Luke 11:32, see εἰς, B. II. 2 d.; (Winer's Grammar, 397 (371)). Since τό μετανοεῖν expresses mental direction, the termini from which and to which may be specified: ἀπό τῆς κακίας, to withdraw or turn one's soul from, etc. (cf. Winers Grammar, 622 (577); especially Buttmann, 322 (277)), Acts 8:22; ἐκ τίνος, Revelation 2:21; Revelation 9:20; Revelation 16:11(see ἐκ, I. 6; (cf. Buttmann, 327 (281), and Winer's Grammar, as above)); μετανοεῖνκαί ἐπιστρέφειν ἐπί τόν Θεόν, Acts 26:20; followed by an infinitive indicating purpose (Winer's Grammar, 318 (298)), Revelation 16:9. (Synonym: see μεταμέλομαι.)

Given the above, I view “repentance” as the ability to mentally acknowledge that sin is sin (thus agreeing with God rather than the world). It is am important step towards being reborn, but it is not synonymous with the God given Birth from Above.

 

[atpollard]

The Lion is physically able to to eat grass, but is unwilling and would rather starve to death why is that?

Therein lies my objection when someone claims that some Lions are UNABLE TO EAT GRASS. I completely agree that the Lion is UNWILLING to eat grass, but I can find no scripture that says God made some Lions UNABLE to eat grass. So I argue that the refusal to eat grass is the lion’s choice rather than God’s command.

 

[atpollard]

Can God stop a man from sinning?

Yes.
(Proverbs 21:1)
(Philippians 2:13)

 

[5thKingdom]

Therein lies my objection when someone claims that some Lions are UNABLE TO EAT GRASS. I completely agree that the Lion is UNWILLING to eat grass, but I can find no scripture that says God made some Lions UNABLE to eat grass.

What a good example of intentionally ignoring Scriptures
in order to protect a chosen theological system of synergism.
This verse was posted many times (as were passages teaching
the same reality in John 6 and Romans 3 and Romans 9 and others)
and yet some people want to DENY and REJECT and IGNORE
all the Scriptures that contradict their theological system.


Looking at the verse from the perspective of the (above)
metaphor of lions CHOOSING not to eat grass:


Mar 4:12
That seeing they may see, and not perceive;
[they see the grass but cannot perceive that it is their food]
and hearing they may hear, and not understand;
[hearing the grass moving, they cannot understand it is their food]
LEST AT ANY TIME [there is a REASON for their total blindness]
they should be converted, [they should be fed by the grass]
and their sins should be forgiven them. [and they should live]


Now people can say (all day long) "I see no Scripture"
teaching LIONS cannot "perceive" or "understand" LEST
they "be converted" and "they should receive eternal life"...


But those people would only be showing they are "willfully ignorant"
of what the Scripture clearly says. Now, the only question is WHY
are they willfully ignorant? And the answer MUST BE they are
trying to protect their worldview from immediate destruction.
(because God has not given them "ears to hear")


If the Bible REALLY teaches (and it does) that some men were
NEVER MEANT to be saved... then all synergistic "gospels"
are immediately destroyed. It is just as simple as that.


Jim

 

[atpollard]

What a good example of intentionally ignoring Scriptures
in order to protect a chosen theological system of synergism.

I am a monergist, so your response misses the mark.

 

[atpollard]

If the Bible REALLY teaches (and it does) that some men were NEVER MEANT to be saved...

You are flirting with HYPER-CALVINISM and making God the author of evil.

 

[5thKingdom]

I am a monergist, so your response misses the mark.

Your doctrine says otherwise.
Notice you did not respond to my points?
Why is that?

Jim

 

[atpollard]

Mar 4:12
That seeing they may see, and not perceive;
[they see the grass but cannot perceive that it is their food]
and hearing they may hear, and not understand;
[hearing the grass moving, they cannot understand it is their food]
LEST AT ANY TIME [there is a REASON for their total blindness]
they should be converted, [they should be fed by the grass]
and their sins should be forgiven them. [and they should live]


Now people can say (all day long) "I see no Scripture"
teaching LIONS cannot "perceive" or "understand" LEST
they "be converted" and "they should receive eternal life"...

No matter how many times you repeat the same diatribe and complain that I am ignoring it, the word “REPENT” still never appears even once so it cannot be proof that scripture states that some men are unable to repent (which is what you claim and what I asked for scripture that supports).

Clearly ONE of us is not listening, but I know how to read the word “repent” and I know when that word is missing. I have never argues that all men will be saved, so proof that some men will not be saved means nothing.

The question is, are the ABLE to repent, but UNWILLING to repent, or are they UNABLE to repent.

 

[5thKingdom]

You are flirting with HYPER-CALVINISM and making God the author of evil.

Really?
What did I say that was "flirting with hyper-Calvinism"

You do this all the time.
You make accusations without providing proof/examples.
You present doctrine without providing Scripture.

You appear to believe that your "feelings" are a substitute
for Scripture.

BTW... the Biblical FACT that some men (most men)
were NEVER MEANT to be saved is shown in both
Scripture and history. Why is that "news" to you?

Is jumping up-and-down yelling "hyper-Calvinism"
REALLY the best you can do?

Jim

 

[atpollard]

Your doctrine says otherwise.
Notice you did not respond to my points?
Why is that?

Jim

I have responded to those points several times.

 

[5thKingdom]

No matter how many times you repeat the same diatribe and complain that I am ignoring it, the word “REPENT” still never appears even once so it cannot be proof that scripture states that some men are unable to repent (which is what you claim and what I asked for scripture that supports).

So you think that men can repent when it was NEVER MEANT
for them to "be converted" or "have their sins forgiven"?

Care to explain HOW that works?

If you want to be taken seriously you will need to THINK
more deeply than you are now.

Repentance is PART of "being converted"
and PART of "having their sins forgiven"

You cannot be saved WITHOUT repentance.

Let me say that again for you... you cannot "be converted"
or "have your sins forgiven" WITHOUT repentance.

It is not my fault or problem if you cannot "perceive" this fact
or you cannot "understand" this reality.

But you are only embarrassing yourself when you continue
to pretend men can be saved WITHOUT repentance.
Or unsaved men can (really) repent.

Jim

 

[5thKingdom]

I have responded to those points several times.

What post # would that be?

.

 

[atpollard]

So you think that men can repent when it was NEVER MEANT for them to "be converted" or "have their sins forgiven"?

That is actually not even the point.
What I think is irrelevant.
The question is: “Can you prove your claim that “some men cannot repent”?
Proving that some men cannot be saved is not the same as proving that they cannot repent since it is at least a logical possibility that they can repent but will forever refuse to. That is why I requested scripture to support your claim. Scripture would settle the matter in a way that logic never will.

 

[atpollard]

But you are only embarrassing yourself when you continue to pretend men can be saved WITHOUT repentance.
Or unsaved men can (really) repent.

1. I have never claimed that men can be saved without repentance. You have simply charged me with making that claim several times. I have repeatedly assured you that I believe that men cannot be saved without repentance and that all of salvation is a gift of God to those He foreknew, His beloved elect in Christ.
2. How am I “embarrassing myself” by suggesting the possibility that unsaved men can repent (change their mind and acknowledge sin as sin) but steadfastly choose not to do so ... just as John 3:19-20 and Romans 1:18-21 teach us.
3. You could easily end my embarrassment by simply providing the scripture upon which you base your bold claim that SOME MEN CANNOT REPENT ... which is all that I have ever asked for: Scripture to prove your Dogma.

 

[5thKingdom]

The question is: “Can you prove your claim that “some men cannot repent”?

Of course I already have (repeatedly)
But you will need to THINK more deeply than usual.

(1) No man can be saved without repenting.
Repentance is a natural RESULT of being saved.
You cannot be "indwelt"or have your sins forgiven
and NOT produce the "fruit" of repentance.

Your "feelings" are not the authority on the issue, the BIBLE is.
You cannot find ONE VERSE showing saved people who do not
repent... nor can you find ONE VERSE showing people who
(really) repent - and remain unsaved.

This is what I mean by you needing to THINK more deeply
than you currently do because SCRIPTURE does not allow
the "theory" that saved people do not repent or that unsaved
people really repent.

Therefore, when you have people who cannot be "converted"
and cannot be "forgiven"... that MEANS they cannot (really)
repent - otherwise they COULD be converted and forgiven.


(2) Jesus was very clear that some men were NEVER MEANT
of "be converted" or "have their sins forgiven" [Mk 4:12]

Therefore, if they cannot be "converted" or "forgiven"
they cannot (really) repent... because (real) repentance
is the RESULT of being "converted" and "forgiven".

I am not interested in continuing this discussion any longer.
If you cannot "perceive" or "understand" that repentance
is the RESULT of being "converted" and being "forgiven"
then I cannot enlighten you... only God can do that.

Jim

 

[5thKingdom]

1. I have never claimed that men can be saved without repentance.

Then you (now) admit that men who were NEVER MEANT
to "be converted" or "have their sins forgiven" (be saved)
cannot (really) repent.

Congratulations... you finally admit what I have been saying
all along.

Jim

 

[5thKingdom]

1. I have never claimed that men can be saved without repentance. You have simply charged me with making that claim several times. I have repeatedly assured you that I believe that men cannot be saved without repentance....

1. How am I “embarrassing myself” by suggesting the possibility that unsaved men can repent (change their mind and acknowledge sin as sin)

Read your first statement men cannot be saved without repentance.
Therefore, those who were NEVER MEANT to be saved cannot
(really) repent... or else they WOULD be saved.


You are embarrassing yourself because you do not understand
the IMPLICATIONS of someone who was NEVER MEANT
to be saved (they were never meant to repent)


BTW.... (and this may be the root of your problem)
The act of "repentance" does not mean the acknowledgment
of sin. Biblical "repentance" means MUCH MORE and is ONLY
possible for those who are regenerated.


Jim