Repentance in the Reformed Confessions of Faith

[Bond-servant of Christ]

I have added this on the important Doctrine of Repentance, because there are still those, especially the "Reformed", who are arguing that Biblical "Repentance for the Forgiveness of sins", as clearly taught by the Highest Authority, The Lord Jesus Christ Himself, in Luke 24:47, "and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem". And the Apostle Peter, on the Day of Pentecost, when the Church was born, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?” Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:37-38), is a "work". Here are 4 documents of the Christian Faith that are published by the Reformed, that clearly speak of Repentance being FOR the forgiveness of sins, and a requirement for any sinner to get saved!


Westminster Confessions of Faith:

“I. Repentance unto life is an evangelical grace, the doctrine whereof is to be preached by every minister of the Gospel, as well as that of faith in Christ.

II. By it, a sinner, out of the sight and sense not only of the danger, but also of the filthiness and odiousness of his sins, as contrary to the holy nature, and righteous law of God; and upon the apprehension of His mercy in Christ to such as are penitent, so grieves for, and hates his sins, as to turn from them all unto God, purposing and endeavouring to walk with Him in all the ways of His commandments.

III. Although repentance is not to be rested in, as any satisfaction for sin, or any cause of the pardon thereof, which is the act of God's free grace in Christ, yet it is of such necessity to all sinners, that none may expect pardon without it.

IV. As there is no sin so small, but it deserves damnation; so there is no sin so great, that it can bring damnation upon those who truly repent.

V. Men ought not to content themselves with a general repentance, but it is every man's duty to endeavor to repent of his particular sins, particularly.

VI. As every man is bound to make private confession of his sins to God, praying for the pardon thereof; upon which, and the forsaking of them, he shall find mercy; so he that scandelizeth his brother, or the Church of Christ, ought to be willing, by a private or public confession and sorrow for his sin, to declare his repentance to those that are offended; who are thereupon to be reconciled to him, and in love to receive him.

1689 Baptist Confession:

Chapter 15: Of Repentance Unto Life and Salvation

1. Such of the elect as are converted at riper years, having sometime lived in the state of nature, and therein served divers lusts and pleasures, God in their effectual calling giveth them repentance unto life. ( Titus 3:2-5 )

2. Whereas there is none that doth good and sinneth not, and the best of men may, through the power and deceitfulness of their corruption dwelling in them, with the prevalency of temptation, fall into great sins and provocations; God hath, in the covenant of grace, mercifully provided that believers so sinning and falling be renewed through repentance unto salvation. ( Ecclesiastes 7:20; Luke 22:31, 32 )

3. This saving repentance is an evangelical grace, whereby a person, being by the Holy Spirit made sensible of the manifold evils of his sin, doth, by faith in Christ, humble himself for it with godly sorrow, detestation of it, and self-abhorrency, praying for pardon and strength of grace, with a purpose and endeavour, by supplies of the Spirit, to walk before God unto all well-pleasing in all things. ( Zechariah 12:10; Acts 11:18; Ezekiel 36:31; 2 Corinthians 7:11; Psalms 119:6; Psalms 119:128 )

4. As repentance is to be continued through the whole course of our lives, upon the account of the body of death, and the motions thereof, so it is every man's duty to repent of his particular known sins particularly. ( Luke 19:8; 1 Timothy 1:13, 15 )

5. Such is the provision which God hath made through Christ in the covenant of grace for the preservation of believers unto salvation; that although there is no sin so small but it deserves damnation; yet there is no sin so great that it shall bring damnation on them that repent; which makes the constant preaching of repentance necessary ( Romans 6:23; Isaiah 1:16-18 Isaiah 55:7)

The Second Helvetic Confession:

CHAPTER XIV

Of Repentance and the Conversion of Man

The doctrine of repentance is joined with the Gospel. For so has the Lord said in the Gospel: “Repentance and forgiveness of sins should be preached in my name to all nations” (Luke 24:47).

WHAT IS REPENTANCE? By repentance we understand (1) the recovery of a right mind in sinful man awakened by the Word of the Gospel and the Holy Spirit, and received by true faith, by which the sinner immediately acknowledges his innate corruption and all his sins accused by the Word of God; and (2) grieves for them from his heart, and not only bewails and frankly confesses them before God with a feeling of shame, but also (3) with indignation abominates them; and (4) now zealously considers the amendment of his ways and constantly strives for innocence and virtue in which conscientiously to exercise himself all the rest of his life.

TRUE REPENTANCE IS CONVERSION TO GOD. And this is true repentance, namely, a sincere turning to God and all good, and earnest turning away from the devil and all evil.

1. REPENTANCE IS A GIFT OF GOD. Now we expressly say that this repentance is a sheer gift of God and not a work of our strength. For the apostle commands a faithful minister diligently to instruct those who oppose the truth, if “God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth” (II Tim. 2:25).

2. LAMENTS SINS COMMITTED. Now that sinful woman who washed the feet of the Lord with her tears, and Peter who wept bitterly and bewailed his denial of the Lord (Luke 7:38; 22:62) show clearly how the mind of a penitent man ought to be seriously lamenting the sins he has committed.

3. CONFESSES SINS TO GOD. Moreover, the prodigal son and the publican in the Gospel, when compared with the Pharisee, present us with the most suitable pattern of how our sins are to be confessed to God. The former said: “Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you; I am no longer worthy to be called your son; treat me as one of your hired servants” (Luke 15:8 ff.). And the latter, not daring to raise his eyes to heaven, beat his breast, saying, “God be merciful to me a sinner” (ch. 18:13). And we do not doubt that they were accepted by God into grace. For the apostle John says: “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us” (I John 1:9 f.).

Heidelberg Catechism:

Lord’s Day 33

Q & A 88

Q. What is involved
in genuine repentance or conversion?

A. Two things:

the dying-away of the old self,
and the rising-to-life of the new.1

1 Rom. 6:1-11; 2 Cor. 5:17; Eph. 4:22-24; Col. 3:5-10

Q & A 89

Q. What is the dying-away of the old self?

A. To be genuinely sorry for sin
and more and more to hate
and run away from it.1

1 Ps. 51:3-4, 17; Joel 2:12-13; Rom. 8:12-13; 2 Cor. 7:1

 

[disciple Clint]

I have added this on the important Doctrine of Repentance, because there are still those, especially the "Reformed", who are arguing that Biblical "Repentance for the Forgiveness of sins", as clearly taught by the Highest Authority, The Lord Jesus Christ Himself, in Luke 24:47, "and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem". And the Apostle Peter, on the Day of Pentecost, when the Church was born, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?” Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:37-38), is a "work". Here are 4 documents of the Christian Faith that are published by the Reformed, that clearly speak of Repentance being FOR the forgiveness of sins, and a requirement for any sinner to get saved!


Westminster Confessions of Faith:

“I. Repentance unto life is an evangelical grace, the doctrine whereof is to be preached by every minister of the Gospel, as well as that of faith in Christ.

II. By it, a sinner, out of the sight and sense not only of the danger, but also of the filthiness and odiousness of his sins, as contrary to the holy nature, and righteous law of God; and upon the apprehension of His mercy in Christ to such as are penitent, so grieves for, and hates his sins, as to turn from them all unto God, purposing and endeavouring to walk with Him in all the ways of His commandments.

III. Although repentance is not to be rested in, as any satisfaction for sin, or any cause of the pardon thereof, which is the act of God's free grace in Christ, yet it is of such necessity to all sinners, that none may expect pardon without it.

IV. As there is no sin so small, but it deserves damnation; so there is no sin so great, that it can bring damnation upon those who truly repent.

V. Men ought not to content themselves with a general repentance, but it is every man's duty to endeavor to repent of his particular sins, particularly.

VI. As every man is bound to make private confession of his sins to God, praying for the pardon thereof; upon which, and the forsaking of them, he shall find mercy; so he that scandelizeth his brother, or the Church of Christ, ought to be willing, by a private or public confession and sorrow for his sin, to declare his repentance to those that are offended; who are thereupon to be reconciled to him, and in love to receive him.

1689 Baptist Confession:

Chapter 15: Of Repentance Unto Life and Salvation

1. Such of the elect as are converted at riper years, having sometime lived in the state of nature, and therein served divers lusts and pleasures, God in their effectual calling giveth them repentance unto life. ( Titus 3:2-5 )

2. Whereas there is none that doth good and sinneth not, and the best of men may, through the power and deceitfulness of their corruption dwelling in them, with the prevalency of temptation, fall into great sins and provocations; God hath, in the covenant of grace, mercifully provided that believers so sinning and falling be renewed through repentance unto salvation. ( Ecclesiastes 7:20; Luke 22:31, 32 )

3. This saving repentance is an evangelical grace, whereby a person, being by the Holy Spirit made sensible of the manifold evils of his sin, doth, by faith in Christ, humble himself for it with godly sorrow, detestation of it, and self-abhorrency, praying for pardon and strength of grace, with a purpose and endeavour, by supplies of the Spirit, to walk before God unto all well-pleasing in all things. ( Zechariah 12:10; Acts 11:18; Ezekiel 36:31; 2 Corinthians 7:11; Psalms 119:6; Psalms 119:128 )

4. As repentance is to be continued through the whole course of our lives, upon the account of the body of death, and the motions thereof, so it is every man's duty to repent of his particular known sins particularly. ( Luke 19:8; 1 Timothy 1:13, 15 )

5. Such is the provision which God hath made through Christ in the covenant of grace for the preservation of believers unto salvation; that although there is no sin so small but it deserves damnation; yet there is no sin so great that it shall bring damnation on them that repent; which makes the constant preaching of repentance necessary ( Romans 6:23; Isaiah 1:16-18 Isaiah 55:7)

The Second Helvetic Confession:

CHAPTER XIV

Of Repentance and the Conversion of Man

The doctrine of repentance is joined with the Gospel. For so has the Lord said in the Gospel: “Repentance and forgiveness of sins should be preached in my name to all nations” (Luke 24:47).

WHAT IS REPENTANCE? By repentance we understand (1) the recovery of a right mind in sinful man awakened by the Word of the Gospel and the Holy Spirit, and received by true faith, by which the sinner immediately acknowledges his innate corruption and all his sins accused by the Word of God; and (2) grieves for them from his heart, and not only bewails and frankly confesses them before God with a feeling of shame, but also (3) with indignation abominates them; and (4) now zealously considers the amendment of his ways and constantly strives for innocence and virtue in which conscientiously to exercise himself all the rest of his life.

TRUE REPENTANCE IS CONVERSION TO GOD. And this is true repentance, namely, a sincere turning to God and all good, and earnest turning away from the devil and all evil.

1. REPENTANCE IS A GIFT OF GOD. Now we expressly say that this repentance is a sheer gift of God and not a work of our strength. For the apostle commands a faithful minister diligently to instruct those who oppose the truth, if “God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth” (II Tim. 2:25).

2. LAMENTS SINS COMMITTED. Now that sinful woman who washed the feet of the Lord with her tears, and Peter who wept bitterly and bewailed his denial of the Lord (Luke 7:38; 22:62) show clearly how the mind of a penitent man ought to be seriously lamenting the sins he has committed.

3. CONFESSES SINS TO GOD. Moreover, the prodigal son and the publican in the Gospel, when compared with the Pharisee, present us with the most suitable pattern of how our sins are to be confessed to God. The former said: “Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you; I am no longer worthy to be called your son; treat me as one of your hired servants” (Luke 15:8 ff.). And the latter, not daring to raise his eyes to heaven, beat his breast, saying, “God be merciful to me a sinner” (ch. 18:13). And we do not doubt that they were accepted by God into grace. For the apostle John says: “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us” (I John 1:9 f.).

Heidelberg Catechism:

Lord’s Day 33

Q & A 88

Q. What is involved
in genuine repentance or conversion?

A. Two things:

the dying-away of the old self,
and the rising-to-life of the new.1

1 Rom. 6:1-11; 2 Cor. 5:17; Eph. 4:22-24; Col. 3:5-10

Q & A 89

Q. What is the dying-away of the old self?

A. To be genuinely sorry for sin
and more and more to hate
and run away from it.1

1 Ps. 51:3-4, 17; Joel 2:12-13; Rom. 8:12-13; 2 Cor. 7:1

Looks like what you have said here is correct, your post is unclear as to what objections others have had to what you have posted, could you be more clear on that so I can get an idea of the other side on the issue? Thanks

 

[BBAS 64]

The wonderful beauty of the Historic Christian faith.... he who has ears.

 

[Monksailor]

who are arguing that Biblical "Repentance for the Forgiveness of sins"

Arguing what? You do not finish your sentence. You added clause after clause after this but never came back and finished what they were arguing.

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

Arguing what? You do not finish your sentence. You added clause after clause after this but never came back and finished what they were arguing.

Arguing...is a work as it says

 

[Monksailor]

I have added this on the important Doctrine of Repentance, because there are still those, especially the "Reformed", who are arguing that Biblical "Repentance for the Forgiveness of sins", as clearly taught by the Highest Authority, The Lord Jesus Christ Himself, in Luke 24:47, "and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem".

I have looked and looked and looked through this sentence, BSOC, and I cannot find what you say you said in it what they were arguing about.

You responded, "Arguing...is a work as it says"

What you say is there is NOT there.

But if that is what you meant, thank you for clarifying yourself.

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

I have looked and looked and looked through this sentence, BSOC, and I cannot find what you say you said in it what they were arguing about.

You responded, "Arguing...is a work as it says"

What you say is there is NOT there.

But if that is what you meant, thank you for clarifying yourself.

Look after the reference from Acts 2.37,38

 

[garee]

I have added this on the important Doctrine of Repentance, because there are still those, especially the "Reformed", who are arguing that Biblical "Repentance for the Forgiveness of sins", as clearly taught by the Highest Authority, The Lord Jesus Christ Himself, in Luke 24:47, "and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem". And the Apostle Peter, on the Day of Pentecost, when the Church was born, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?” Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:37-38), is a "work". Here are 4 documents of the Christian Faith that are published by the Reformed, that clearly speak of Repentance being FOR the forgiveness of sins, and a requirement for any sinner to get saved!

God does all the work of salvation or he does none, zero.

Philippians 1:6 informs us if he has begun the good work in us as our confidence he will fish it till the last day the end .

To repent turn and ease oneself is a work of God not of our own selves lest any man boast in a false hope, . He does the work of turning us dead in our trespasses and sin. Empowering so that we can return to the first works of Him giving us his faith to make believing him not seen possible. It is Christ as God who works in us to both will (inform) and do (empower us) to turn so that we can seek after Him. No man of his own volition could seek after him who has no form.

The father of lies simply turns the work or call of repentance upside down as inspired earthly of the father of lies.

Isaiah 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

Therefore taking away his understand that does work in those who do return to their first love. God working in them to both will and perform his good pleasure. .

Not return or repent to Nicole the leader of the sect called the Nicolaitans .That idea is for the sects that have a hierarchy of men called venerable fathers . Nicole, he acting Pope.

Revelation2:4-7 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

 

[atpollard]

Arguing...is a work as it says

Those “anti-reformed” that would argue that one must repent to earn/deserve/empower God to forgive sin ARE treating “repentance” as a “work” to earn the favor of God ... making “grace” something other than grace.

Like “good works”, the reformed object to their inclusion as the REASON for our salvation rather than the fruit of a transformed heart.

 

[5thKingdom]

I have added this on the important Doctrine of Repentance, because there are still those, especially the "Reformed", who are arguing

(1) First, you can forget about Reformed Confessions because
they do not establish Biblical Truth.


(2) Second, before you can argue about Biblical "repentance"
you must FIRST harmonize your argument with the Biblical teaching
that some men were NEVER MEANT to be saved. So, clearly, they
were NEVER ABLE to "repent".


(3) When your "gospel" of repentance includes the Biblical fact
that some men were NEVER MEANT to be saved, so they were
NEVER ABLE to repent... then, and only then, will you be teaching
the Gospel of the Bible.


You make a false assumption (and an un-Biblical doctrine) when
you ASSUME that the command for all men to repent implies that
all men are ABLE to (really) repent. The Bible NEVER teaches that
all men are ABLE to repent - you added that idea to the text.


Jim

 

[5thKingdom]

Those “anti-reformed” that would argue that one must repent to earn/deserve/empower God to forgive sin ARE treating “repentance” as a “work” to earn the favor of God ... making “grace” something other than grace.

Like “good works”, the reformed object to their inclusion as the REASON for our salvation rather than the fruit of a transformed heart.

If repentance is the CAUSE of regeneration then it is clearly
a "work". If repentance is the RESULT of regeneration then
it is not a "work" but a "fruit" of that regeneration. The Lord
PROMISES the regenerated will produce such "fruit", some
thirty-fold, others sixty-fold and some one hundred-fold.


Jim

 

[atpollard]

(1) First, you can forget about Reformed Confessions because they do not establish Biblical Truth.

While it is self-evident that only Scripture can establish “Biblical Truth”, you are ignoring the fact that God has granted to the Church ... some to be Apostles, some to be Prophets and some to be Teachers. Therefore the Confessions handed down to us CAN CONTAIN “Biblical Truth” and are not completely without merit.

 

[atpollard]

(2) Second, before you can argue about Biblical "repentance"
you must FIRST harmonize your argument with the Biblical teaching
that some men were NEVER MEANT to be saved. So, clearly, they
were NEVER ABLE to "repent".

Do you have a verse that supports that men are NEVER ABLE to repent?
You are suggesting that God has commanded men to do the impossible and I do not believe that Scripture teaches that. Without the gift of grace men are NOT WILLING to repent, but that is not the same as NOT ABLE.

[Romans 1:18-23 NASB]
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.​

Romans 1 suggests that men could have done the right thing and should have done the right thing, but that men CHOSE not to do what they knew they should do.

John said it this way:

[John 3:19-20 NASB] 19 "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.​

 

[5thKingdom]

Do you have a verse that supports that men are NEVER ABLE to repent?
You are suggesting that God has commanded men to do the impossible and I do not believe that Scripture teaches that.

(1) It REALLY does not matter what you believe. The Bible is clear,
and history confirms, some men were NEVER MEANT to be saved.
Tell me... during the Jewish Kingdom, how many Gentiles were saved?
Of course the answer demonstrates how many Gentiles were
NEVER MEANT to be saved.


(2) Mark 4:11-12 teaches that some men were NEVER MEANT
to "perceive" or "understand" or "be converted" or to ever have
"their sins forgiven". Clearly men who were not meant to have
"their sins forgiven" are men NEVER MEANT to be saved.


(3) Romans 9 speaks of God CREATING some men to be
"vessels of mercy" (they were meant to be saved) and others as
"vessels of wrath" (they were NEVER MEANT to be saved).


God also speaks of CREATING some men to be "vessels of honor"
(they are meant to be saved) and others as "vessels of dishonor"
(they are NEVER MEANT to be saved).


(4) Jesus explained in Matthew 13 that the church consists
of MANY unsaved "tares/goats" sown by Satan and destined
to the same fire prepared for Satan and his demons (clearly
these men were NEVER MEANT to be saved). Jesus also
speaks of some in the church who are saved "wheat/sheep"
sown by God and destined to eternal life (clearly those men
are meant to be saved)


(5) The Bible is very clear, there are three (3) types of people
(1) the saved "wheat" in the church destined to heaven
(2) the unsaved "tares" in the church, destined to hell
(3) the lost souls OUTSIDE the church, also destined to hell


If you do not understand this CONTEXT of the Bible then you
have little hope of understanding the MEANING of passages
which talk about ONE (1) of these three (3) groups of men.


BTW... I understand that the Biblical FACT that some men
were NEVER MEANT to be saved immediately destroys the
false gospel that all men are ABLE to be saved. But that
does not change this Biblical FACT.


And, the fact that God commands all men to repent does NOT
mean that ANY man is ABLE to repent. The fact is, NO MAN
is able to repent until AFTER he is regenerated.


Repentance is the RESULT of regeneration...
and never the CAUSE.


Jim

 

[5thKingdom]

While it is self-evident that only Scripture can establish “Biblical Truth”, you are ignoring the fact that God has granted to the Church ... some to be Apostles, some to be Prophets and some to be Teachers. Therefore the Confessions handed down to us CAN CONTAIN “Biblical Truth” and are not completely without merit.

What you say is correct. And I did not mean to imply that
Reformed Confessions are not valuable.. as they show the
leaven of understanding of the saints AT THAT TIME.


However, the Bible is very clear that, while there are always
real Saints on earth (until the Last Saints are "changed" into
their incorruptible spiritual bodies in the "twinkling of an eye")
the Bible is equally clear the understand of the Saints improves
throughout the church age - so that the Reformed Saints knew
MORE Gospel truth than saints living in 200 AD... and the Bible
is clear the Last Saints know MORE Gospel truth than any
previous saint.


Jim

 

[5thKingdom]

Do you have a verse that supports that men are NEVER ABLE to repent?
You are suggesting that God has commanded men to do the impossible and I do not believe that Scripture teaches that.

The Bible is clear that ALL MEN are commanded to both
"repent" and "believe".


However, the Bible is equally clear that NO MAN can do either
unless the Father "draws" them.... and ALL MEN the Father draws
"shall come" to Christ and He will lost NONE of "His sheep".


If you think the Bible does not command ALL MEN to repent,
while it also teaches that (real) repentance is the RESULT of
being regenerated - and never the CAUSE - then you have
not understood one of the most basic and essential elements
of the Gospel.


And it does not matter WHAT you believe.
The Bible is very clear on these points whether you
understand them or not. You should NEVER assume that
Biblical Truth is LIMITED to what you understand... as we have
seen in these last three posts, that is clearly not the case.


Jim

 

[atpollard]

The Bible is clear,
and history confirms, some men were NEVER MEANT to be saved.
Tell me... during the Jewish Kingdom, how many Gentiles were saved?
Of course the answer demonstrates how many Gentiles were
NEVER MEANT to be saved.

You have conflated the fact that some men are destined for damnation with the fact that they are UNABLE TO REPENT.

You said men are UNABLE TO REPENT and I politely requested scripture that supported your false claim.
You have provided none.

[John 3:16-21 NASB]
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 "But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."​

According to John, man is responsible for “not believing” and “loving darkness” and refusing to “come to the Light”. You are painting God as the author of sin by claiming that they CANNOT OBEY which suggests that God unjustly calls men to do the impossible.

[Romans 1:18-23 NASB]
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.​

Paul claims men are without excuse and knew God. He claims that men CHOOSE not to honor God and they suppress the truth within them. Thus it is not true that men are UNABLE, rather it is the case that men are UNWILLING. Thus the damnation of men falls on the head of men because of the free choice made by men.

It is folly for God to call all men to repent if men are unable to repent. Such an action makes God into a cruel tormentor of the lost. However a God that calls all men to repent, knowing that men are capable of turning to him but will stubbornly refuse to do so, makes the guilt of the damned all the greater both for the sins they committed and the grace they rejected. God has given men every chance to turn to him because ... “As surely as I live, declares the sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but prefer that the wicked change his behavior and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil deeds! Why should you die ...” [Ezekiel 33:11]

 

[5thKingdom]

You have conflated the fact that some men are destined for damnation with the fact that they are UNABLE TO REPENT.

No, I have not conflated anything.
Men who were NEVER MEANT to be saved are
(a) destined to damnation and
(b) not able to repent

You said men are UNABLE TO REPENT and I politely requested scripture that supported your false claim. You have provided none.

You politely requested Scripture to refute your claim and
I politely PROVIDED several examples of Scripture.
That REFUTE your doctrine. I will re-post them for you:


The FIRST TIME I posted #1-#4 (below) you completely
ignored them. Would you be so polite (this time) to actually
ADDRESS the passages I provided to you? Please do not
PRETEND this information is not PART of the Gospel by
intentionally ignoring it.


(1) It REALLY does not matter what you believe. The Bible is clear,
and history confirms, some men were NEVER MEANT to be saved.
Tell me... during the Jewish Kingdom, how many Gentiles were saved?
Of course the answer demonstrates how many Gentiles were
NEVER MEANT to be saved.


(2) Mark 4:11-12 teaches that some men were NEVER MEANT
to "perceive" or "understand" or "be converted" or to ever have
"their sins forgiven". Clearly men who were not meant to have
"their sins forgiven" are men NEVER MEANT to be saved.


(3) Romans 9 speaks of God CREATING some men to be
"vessels of mercy" (they were meant to be saved) and others as
"vessels of wrath" (they were NEVER MEANT to be saved).


God also speaks of CREATING some men to be "vessels of honor"
(they are meant to be saved) and others as "vessels of dishonor"
(they are NEVER MEANT to be saved).


(4) Jesus explained in Matthew 13 that the church consists
of MANY unsaved "tares/goats" sown by Satan and destined
to the same fire prepared for Satan and his demons (clearly
these men were NEVER MEANT to be saved). Jesus also
speaks of some in the church who are saved "wheat/sheep"
sown by God and destined to eternal life (clearly those men
are meant to be saved)


(5) The Bible is very clear, there are three (3) types of people
(1) the saved "wheat" in the church destined to heaven
(2) the unsaved "tares" in the church, destined to hell
(3) the lost souls OUTSIDE the church, also destined to hell


If you do not understand this CONTEXT of the Bible then you
have little hope of understanding the MEANING of passages
which talk about ONE (1) of these three (3) groups of men.


BTW... I understand that the Biblical FACT that some men
were NEVER MEANT to be saved immediately destroys the
false gospel that all men are ABLE to be saved. But that
does not change this Biblical FACT.


And, the fact that God commands all men to repent does NOT
mean that ANY man is ABLE to repent. The fact is, NO MAN
is able to repent until AFTER he is regenerated.


Repentance is the RESULT of regeneration...
and never the CAUSE.

According to John, man is responsible for “not believing” and “loving darkness” and refusing to “come to the Light”. You are painting God as the author of sin by claiming that they CANNOT OBEY which suggests that God unjustly calls men to do the impossible.

First, I am not disputing that men are COMMANDED to repent
or that they are ACCOUNTABLE for not repenting. However,
(as shown in examples #1-#4 above) the fact that some men
are NEVER MEANT to be saved (or believe/repent) does not
negate the command to do so.


Secondly... it is not ME that "paints God as the author of sin",
that is just a strawman you have constructed to protect your
system from contradicting what GOD HAS SAID.


I gave you examples #1-#4 (above) where GOD (not me)
shows some men were NEVER MEANT to be saved or repent.
You do not have to LIKE what the Bible teaches and you do not
have to ACCEPT what the Bible teaches... but you are only
embarrassing yourself by saying that the WORD OF GOD
(shown in examples #1-#4) are just my words.


So go ahead... try to refute what GOD has taught
in examples #1-#4 instead of constructing a strawman
that I make God the author of sin - while you intentionally IGNORE
the Gospel teachings provided in examples #1-#4 (above)

Paul claims men are without excuse and knew God. He claims that men CHOOSE not to honor God and they suppress the truth within them. Thus it is not true that men are UNABLE, rather it is the case that men are UNWILLING. Thus the damnation of men falls on the head of men because of the free choice made by men.

You do not have to LIKE or ACCEPT the Biblical teaching that
NO MAN can come to Jesus unless the Father "draws" them
and ALL MEN the Father draws "shall come" to Christ and He
will lose NONE of them....


The Bible is very clear that men are UNABLE to come to God
unless they are "elect". That is why the Bible declares in boththe
OT and NT that NO MAN will ever "seek God" (no, not even one)
unless they are regenerated [Rom 3:10-12]

It is folly for God to call all men to repent if men are unable to repent.

So you have never read that:

MANY are called ["called" by the Gospel]
but FEW are chosen ["chosen" to be saved]


You do not have to LIKE the Gospel, you do not have to
ACCEPT the Gospel... you can even call the Gospel "folly",
but you are mocking the WORD OF GOD (not me)

such an action makes God into a cruel tormentor of the lost.

But GOD has already responded to that (humanistic) doctrine:
Read the following passage CLOSELY because it is addressing
the SAME ARGUMENT you make - God is a cruel tormentor.


Rom 9:19
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,


As I already showed you (but you chose to IGNORE)
God creates "vessels of mercy" (elect) and "vessels of wrath"
God creates "vessels of honor" (elect) and "vessels of dishonor"
You do not have to LIKE what the Gospel teaches... but you
can never CHANGE the Gospel by ignoring what it teaches.

“As surely as I live, declares the sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but prefer that the wicked change his behavior and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil deeds! Why should you die ...” [Ezekiel 33:11]

Remember, everyone (both the "wheat and tares") are born
"wicked" and NONE will ever "seek God" (no, not even one)
unless they are elect. But that Gospel FACT does not mean
the unsaved "tares" sown by Satan can decide to become
the saved "wheat" sown by God.


So... how about ADDRESSING the SCRIPTURES presented
in #1-#4 (above) instead of continuing to CONFLATE what
the Bible says about the saved "wheat" with what it says
about the unsaved "tares"... they are NOT the same.


I have made it VERY SIMPLE for you.
Just REFUTE #1, then #2, then #3 and then #4
Can you do that?


Jim

 

[atpollard]

You politely requested Scripture to refute your claim and
I politely PROVIDED several examples of Scripture.

Let the record speak for itself. You posted ...

(2) Second, before you can argue about Biblical "repentance"
you must FIRST harmonize your argument with the Biblical teaching
that some men were NEVER MEANT to be saved. So, clearly, they
were NEVER ABLE to "repent".

(3) When your "gospel" of repentance includes the Biblical fact
that some men were NEVER MEANT to be saved, so they were
NEVER ABLE to repent... then, and only then, will you be teaching
the Gospel of the Bible.

[emphasis added]

And my question in response was ...

Do you have a verse that supports that men are NEVER ABLE to repent?

No verse provided by you addresses the claim that that you made and I did not ask you to refute any doctrine of mine.

God bless you, but I have wasted enough time chasing your unfounded claims.

 

[BBAS 64]

Do you have a verse that supports that men are NEVER ABLE to repent?
You are suggesting that God has commanded men to do the impossible and I do not believe that Scripture teaches that. Without the gift of grace men are NOT WILLING to repent, but that is not the same as NOT ABLE.

[Romans 1:18-23 NASB]
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.​

Romans 1 suggests that men could have done the right thing and should have done the right thing, but that men CHOSE not to do what they knew they should do.

John said it this way:

[John 3:19-20 NASB] 19 "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.​

Good Day, Atpollard

Men are commanded to repent, this command is based upon the (law) of the requirements of God.

You suppose that God's right and authority to command that which he will to has some basis on men, that is a complete misunderstanding of God's rights as God. If they cannot submit how are they able to carry it out?


For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.

Repentance is Granted, by God. What happens if God does not choose to grant repentance?

correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth

Yes men love darkness and hate the light so when exposed to the light they run to the darkness which they love. To expect a lover of darkness to seek, or cling to light is like expecting a tiger to eat grass when meat is what they love.

In Him,

Bill