Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: ↑No the 10 commandments are not prophetic pointing to Christ. God's 10 commandments are God's eternal laws and according to the scriptures give us the knowledge of Good (moral right doing) and Evil (moral wrong doing); Sin (moral wrong doing) and Righteousness (moral right doing) *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172. Their purpose in the new covenant is to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith and made free to be born again to walk in God's Spirit (Galatians 3:22-25; Romans 8:1-4; Galatians 5:16; John 3:3-7). Those who are born again according to the scriptures do not practice sin *1 John 3:3-9. Those who continue in sin breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments according to James stand before God guilty of breaking all of them. Sin is the difference between the children of God according to John (1 John 3:9-10) and the children of the devil.

Your response..

Wow, so this is interesting.
So you believe that the 10 commandments give us the knowledge of good and evil?

That is what Gods' Word says as shown in the post you are quoting from. They are God's Words not my words and yes we should all believe them.

 

[Leaf473]

Hello Leaf,

Jesus came to magnify God’s 10 commandment from the inside out quoting Matthew 5:17-32 (applying adultery and murder to our thoughts and feelings) in fulfillment of *Isaiah 42:21. This is to show that unless our righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees we can in no way enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus is saying the problem runs deeper then outward observance to the 10 Commandments. Evil (moral wrong doing) begins in the heart. Breaking God's 10 commandments from the heart according to Jesus is what defiles a man in Matthew 15:18-19. Jesus is saying we can be outwardly perfect and blameless like the Scribes and Pharisee but inwardly like dead mans bones *Matthew 23:27-28.

Jesus magnified the law to the inside out. To show us that we are all sinners in need of a Savior and that sin originates in the heart (thoughts and feelings). That is why we have God’s new covenant promise to of a new heart to love and why we need to be born again by faith in God's Word for salvation to be free from sin (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) *Hebrews 8:10-12; 1 John 3:3-10. This is leading to the new covenant promise of a new heart to love *Hebrews 8:10-12; John 5:42; 1 John 5:17-19; 1 John 4:16; 1 John 5:3; 1 John 4:8.

Without Jesus we do not have the love of God in us *John 5:42. We need to be born of God to love *1 John 4:7 and partake of the new covenant promise. This is why Jesus teaches in *John 3:3-7 that unless we are made clean from the inside out and born again to love we cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. This is what Jesus is talking about in Matthew 5:20 when discussing the Scribes and the Pharisees teaching the application of God's law from the inside out and applying God’s 10 commandments to our very thoughts.

Whosoever is born of god to love in the new covenant *Hebrews 8:10-12 does not commit sin according to the scriptures in 1 John 3:9; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; Romans 3:31; Matthew 22:36-40. This is the good news of the gospel in the new covenant. We have a Savior to save us from sin (not in sin) but we have to be made new to walk in God's Spirit *Galatians 5:16; Romans 8:1-4.

1 John 3:3-10 is talking about all those who are born again to love and it is love that fulfills God's law in all those who believe and follow god's word in the new covenant *Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10. This results in a people that keep God’s law (10 commandments) from the inside out. *Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14; 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:3-10; Romans 13:8-10; Romans 3:31; Hebrews 8:10-12. Unless we are born again to love we cannot enter into the Kingdom of Heaven *JOHN 3:3-7.

………….

So what the conclusion of the matter?

ECCLESIASTES 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: FEAR GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: FOR THIS IS THE WHOLE DUTY OF MAN.

God’s LAW (10 commandments) are not abolished they are fulfilled and established in the life of a believer as they believe God’s Word and abide in Christ and walk in God’s Spirit from the inside out *Galatians 5:16; Romans 3:31; Romans 8:4; 1 John 3:6-9; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 14:12.

Hope this is helpful

It was absolutely helpful!

And that's what I'm talking about, fulfilling the fourth commandment from the inside out means doing God's work 24/7.

We cannot do this unless God is working in us from the inside out!

We cannot do this unless the holy spirit is inside of us leading us to walk in love!

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It was absolutely helpful!

And that's what I'm talking about, fulfilling the fourth commandment from the inside out means doing God's work 24/7.

We cannot do this unless God is working in us from the inside out!

We cannot do this unless the holy spirit is inside of us leading us to walk in love!

Absolutely Leaf! God's law teaches us that we are all sinners and leads us to the Cross of Jesus where we can see Gods' love for us and his salvation for us as we continue to believe and follow Gods' Word. This is why Paul say this is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of who I am chief. God's salvation is by complete dependence on His Word to do what it says it will do. (see Matthew 9:12-13)

 

[BobRyan]

What I mean is, if I use a word to describe a particular day I am not particularly teaching doctrine about that day.

I agree. If I say that two months ago I went for a nature walk on Sabbath or on Tuesday -- it is simply giving a point in time reference.

It does not show a pattern of doing something "every Tuesday" - by contrast to the details in the texts you are ignoring.

Sabbath simply means ‘seventh day’.

No it doesn't.

It also does not mean 'a seventh day'
or "any day in seven you wish to look at".

Ex 16:23 "tomorrow IS the Sabbath" -- not "seven days from now is the Sabbath"

Ex 20:10 THE seventh day IS the Sabbath -- not "The seventh day is the seventh day"

There is no teaching on it in the New Testament like there is in the Old Testament.

"There REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" - just as it was at the time of David -- Heb 4.

There is NO quote of "do not take God's name in vain" in the New Testament - period. And this proves nothing about an approval in the NT to take God's name in vain - which everyone pretty much knows to be true.

 

[Leaf473]

Ok -- in the "just a little" category we have
Acts 18:4 "EVERY SABBATH" they met for Gospel preaching to both Jews and gentiles - as given by Paul.
Acts 13 - Sabbath after Sabbath gospel preaching
Acts 17 - Sabbath after Sabbath after Sabbath gospel preaching.

Is 66:23 - for all eternity after the cross "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" in the New Earth.

=================

Nothing like that in the NT for "week day 1" when it comes to Gospel preaching

By contrast in the NT not one single quote of the commandment "do not take God's name in vain" -- yet we all know it still matters if one does that or not.

how is this not very clear to all??



true.

Hi BobRyan

I really hope you or anyone else will be willing to talk about this. I asked about this earlier when the passage from Isaiah was posted, but I don't think anyone responded.
Since you just brought it up again recently, I wanted to ask again.

"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"

I think that same passage also talks about from new moon to new moon.

So should we expect the new Moon festival to be revived?

Another way of translating the passage, of course, is from week to week and month to month.

 

[pescador]

I fail to see a distinction of things as moral versus something else.

Would it not be moral to obey everything God commanded?

Would it not be immoral to disobey anything He commanded?

If you did everything that God commanded you would be arrested in 21st Century USA. Good luck slaughtering animals on an altar or "putting your neighbor's eye out". There are many other laws that would get you into serious trouble, but these two came to mind immediately.

Romans 6:14, "For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

 

[Leaf473]

Absolutely Leaf! God's law teaches us that we are all sinners and leads us to the Cross of Jesus where we can see Gods' love for us and his salvation for us as we continue to believe and follow Gods' Word. This is why Paul say this is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of who I am chief. God's salvation is by complete dependence on His Word to do what it says it will do. (see Matthew 9:12-13)

Wow, that's so cool that we can agree!

Praise God!

 

[fhansen]

I fail to see a distinction of things as moral versus something else.

Would it not be moral to obey everything God commanded?

Would it not be immoral to disobey anything He commanded?

There was a new viewpoint within the early church as to what He commanded, based on a new perspective on the law in general and on new commands actually given, accompanied by a new sense of freedom. For example, it was recognized that the mere removal of a little piece of flesh did not make one holy. Nor do animal sacrifices. And yet the obligation for man to be righteous, to refrain from sin, still remained.

 

[Nathan@work]

Your response..

That is what Gods' Word says as shown in the post you are quoting from. They are God's Words not my words and yes we should all believe them.

I do not see that in the passages you quote.

What I do see, hopefully you don’t, is that what you said has ties back to the lie told to Eve.

God did not want Adam and Eve to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Satan wanted them to.

Do you think God changed His mind after He removed them from the Garden?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

But I do keep the Sabbath day holy!

I understand that it appears to you that I am tweaking God's commandment.

I'm sure we agree that we are bought with a price, that we don't belong to ourselves.

Is there work that you do that you do just for yourself, and that God has no part in? It's an honest question, I don't mean to sound snarky in any way.

I am happy to answer your question and it does not seem you asked in the spirit of trying to be snarky. I will answer it when I have a little more time to put thought into this because this question is what turned things around for me from living my life for me and now putting God first in my life. I’ll try to answer you by tomorrow. God bless.

 

[Nathan@work]

I agree. If I say that two months ago I went for a nature walk on Sabbath or on Tuesday -- it is simply giving a point in time reference.

It does not show a pattern of doing something "every Tuesday" - by contrast to the details in the texts you are ignoring.



No it doesn't.

It also does not mean 'a seventh day'
or "any day in seven you wish to look at".

Ex 16:23 "tomorrow IS the Sabbath" -- not "seven days from now is the Sabbath"

Ex 20:10 THE seventh day IS the Sabbath -- not "The seventh day is the seventh day"




"There REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" - just as it was at the time of David -- Heb 4.

There is NO quote of "do not take God's name in vain" in the New Testament - period. And this proves nothing about an approval in the NT to take God's name in vain - which everyone pretty much knows to be true.

I never said the Sabbath is false. Just that the New Testament does not teach on it. Glad to see you finally agree.

That is where this whole discussion started.

 

[Nathan@work]

There was a new viewpoint within the early church as to what He commanded, based on a new perspective on the law in general and on new commands actually given, accompanied by a new sense of freedom. For example, it was recognized that the mere removal of a little piece of flesh did not make one holy. Nor do animal sacrifices. And yet the obligation for man to be righteous, to refrain from sin, still remained.

Ah, so we are talking about a human perspective, not Gods perspective.

That would make sense why some distinguish between them.

Not that it’s right, but I understand where people are getting it from now.

 

[pescador]

Your response..

That is what Gods' Word says as shown in the post you are quoting from. They are God's Words not my words and yes we should all believe them.

Especially the third commandment: “You shall not make for yourself a carved image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or that is on the earth beneath or that is in the water below. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I, the Lord, your God, am a jealous God, responding to the transgression of fathers by dealing with children to the third and fourth generations of those who reject me, and showing covenant faithfulness to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments."

Of course, this commandment has been violated too many times to count. IMHO the greatest violator in Christendom of this commandment is the Catholic church.

If you include the other commandments then you stand a great chance of being arrested for slaughtering animals for sacrifice, among others.

 

[fhansen]

Hi fhansen,
Nice to meet you!

Did those ancient churches also believe that when the church met in ecumenical council, its decisions were led by the holy Spirit? I honestly don't know. The Catholic Church believes that today, I think they say it is an ancient belief.

So when those ancient churches confirmed the ten commandments, did they also say that the fourth commandment was now to be done by worshiping and avoiding work on the first day of the week? Again, I don't know for sure but again, I think the Catholic Church teaches that today.

Yes, and yes. The practice of 1st day worship and partaking of the Lord's supper was simply what they did- part of a new perspective on observing the law-and ultimately Sunday became the new sabbath. The rest of the ten commandments continued to be observed as is-as the early church steadfastly maintained -and continues to. But that's been debated in many, many, MANY other threads so let's not go there now, for the purpose of this thread. Anyway, both in the east and in the west the early councils are considered to be Spirit-led. And the west saw no reason to stop the practice at any particular date, still calling together councils as the need arises.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I never said the Sabbath is false. Just that the New Testament does not teach on it. Glad to see you finally agree.

That is where this whole discussion started.

Is there a different God from the Old to New? Same God, same Sabbath that will forever be His Holy day as His covenant can not be broken.

“It is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail” (Luke 16:17).
“My covenant I will not break, nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips” (Psalm 89:34).
“All His precepts [commandments] are sure. They stand fast forever and ever” (Psalm 111:7, 8).


New Testament: 4. "He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: 'And God rested on the seventh day from all His works.' There remains therefore a rest ["keeping of a sabbath," margin] for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His" (Hebrews 4:4, 9, 10).

Plus every time Jesus asks us to keep the Commandments which the 4th commandment is part of.

 

[fhansen]

Ah, so we are talking about a human perspective, not Gods perspective.

And I have no idea why anyone might presume that the human perspective in this case was not inspired, influenced, and motivated by God's perspective. That, in fact, is what our faith is all about. Do you think that God still commands circumcision?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I do not see that in the passages you quote.

What I do see, hopefully you don’t, is that what you said has ties back to the lie told to Eve.

God did not want Adam and Eve to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Satan wanted them to.

Do you think God changed His mind after He removed them from the Garden?

Try reading the scriptures in the post you are quoting from. What is it that you do not believe and the scriptures that were shared with you showing that Gods' law gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and righteousness when obeyed *Psalms 119:172? Adam and Eve ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. What do you think they got the knowledge of once they ate the fruit?

 

[BobRyan]

"There REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" - just as it was at the time of David -- Heb 4.

I never said the Sabbath is false. Just that the New Testament does not teach on it. Glad to see you finally agree.
.

Hebrews 4 is in the New Testament. So also is Acts 18:4 regarding what they did "every Sabbath".

by contrast Ex 20:7 "do not take God's name in vain" is not quoted at all in the NT. - which also proves "nothing" about saints supposedly approved to take God's name in vain in the NT. We might actually agree on that point.

So then the "New Covenant" made specifically with "the house of Israel" in Jer 31:31-34 and unchanged in that regard in the New Testament Heb 8:6-12. - we might agree there too.

 

[Nathan@work]

Is there a different God from the Old to New? Same God, same Sabbath that will forever be His Holy day as His covenant can not be broken.

“It is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail” (Luke 16:17).
“My covenant I will not break, nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips” (Psalm 89:34).
“All His precepts [commandments] are sure. They stand fast forever and ever” (Psalm 111:7, 8).


New Testament: 4. "He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: 'And God rested on the seventh day from all His works.' There remains therefore a rest ["keeping of a sabbath," margin] for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His" (Hebrews 4:4, 9, 10).

Plus every time Jesus asks us to keep the Commandments which the 4th commandment is part of.

I never said His Sabbath has changed.

I said that the New Testament does not teach on it.

 

[BobRyan]

"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"

I think that same passage also talks about from new moon to new moon.

True.

For all eternity after the cross "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

So should we expect the new Moon festival to be revived?

I think so since at the time of the New Earth not only do we have the creation of Earth Sabbath memorial of Gen 2:1-3 - but we will have the creation of New Earth of Rev 21:1-3 -- so two memorial events as Isaiah 66:23 points out would be expected.