Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

[Nathan@work]

I agree. The thread has been very polite.

Typically these discussions can spiral out of control very quickly.

It may just be that we are all wanting to love each other as ourself and it is showing.

 

[Freth]

Ah, now we get to the meat!

I wondered how long it would be till the word 'semantics' came up.

Jesus did not just link love with the others, He defined it as being the sum of the others.

Therefore, when we love God with all our hearts, mind, soul, and strength - when we love others as ourselves - we keep ALL of God's commandments.

So, when we read that passage in Revelation(or any other for that matter) in where it states the "commandments", we know that those who love are fulfilling His commandments.

Does not seem too complicated to me.

If Jesus summed up all of God's commandments into just two, why do people insist on breaking them back down into many?

This has been explained to you in detail already.

You have a nice day.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I'm happy to try to answer all your questions, but I'm concerned that we will lose track of what I was asking.

I am asking about how this works in your mind, so I don't think it should require any answers from me. And it doesn't have to be about me specifically. Certainly you must know people who believe that Jesus was sent from God and and that he rose from the dead, the basic Christian beliefs.

Yet most of these people do not keep the Sabbath, as you understand it.

How does that work in your mind? Is that commandment not written on their heart?

I think it comes down to our choices and free will. Like a choice to keep Sabbath or go to church on Sunday or not go to church at all. Just like when someone asks you a question, you can choose to answer truthfully or choose to add a bit of lie with the truth. God loves us so much He gives us the freedom to make these choices even if it hurts Him.

The Bible references the wide path vs the narrow one. I do not think that its a good reason to do something just because its what everyone else is doing. I understand for someone who has never been to church on Sabbath, was not raised with Sabbath-keeping, all their friends go to church on Sunday, etc. God's 4th commandment seems a bit foreign. I think when you really commit yourself to God and allow the Holy Spirit to work in you and you earnestly want to follow God, He will lead you to keeping all of His commandments. Most people don't even know why they go to church on Sunday or that there is no scripture in the entire Bible saying to keep Sunday a Holy day or its God's Sabbath. Most people don't know how the primary day of worship was changed, who changed it, what does it mean when you observe the first day as worship according to who changed it. I think God made the Bible exactly how He intended. That those who want to commit will seek Him with all their heart and allow His Spirit to guide them to the Truth. I think there are a lot of people who dip their toes in religion but don't want to be fully committed to God which includes members of the SDA church.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Hi imge,

First I want to say that I think of you as a dear Christian sister, and I only want the best for you, as I'm sure you only want the best for me.

I want to say this as gently as possible, but I think how you begin the word post is by dodging.

Nathan@work has been asking you repeatedly what your view of a particular scripture is.

Yet you reply with
"Maybe you can tell me."

Well, the question put to you was what you think about something.

This is a common experience, btw. We all do it. It usually happens when our minds begin to realize that we hold two opposing thoughts.

This thread has been wonderfully polite, and I don't want to do anything to change that, so I'm treading as lightly as I possibly can.

I'm also fully aware that I am writing this post just after I have responded to a post of yours in which you asked me a string of questions which I do not answer in my response. I'm happy to try to answer any question you put to me, but I am on a cell phone so it's easier if I just do one question at a time. Is there a particular question you want me to start with from any of your posts?

Peace be with you, my wonderful sister in Christ!

The question was answered several times, I'm not sure how re-answering it would change anything. There was no dodge, but if you look back I have been answering all the questions but as soon as I start asking questions which has been very few, I don't receive answers. It just doesn't seem like a genuine exchange anymore. I am sorry if you think it was otherwise.

 

[Nathan@work]

This has been explained to you in detail already.

You have a nice day.

Are you speaking of my question?

I have not seen where anyone has posted the reason for breaking down what Jesus summed up.

 

[Freth]

Hello Freth, so love fulfills the entire law...ie if we love one another we uphold or fulfilled all commandments in the Law. ..

If love fulfilled the law, we could twist our concept of love into anything we want, to justify our actions. We could convince ourselves that lying to someone is out of love. That committing adultery is out of love. That murder is out of love. That the prophets were nothing, we just need love; running the danger of negating the Bible altogether.

Sin twists love to our own ends. The law of God sets the record straight.

 

[Nathan@work]

The question was answered several times, I'm not sure how re-answering it would change anything. There was no dodge, but if you look back I have been answering all the questions but as soon as I start asking questions which has been very few, I don't receive answers. It just doesn't seem like a genuine exchange anymore. I am sorry if you think it was otherwise.

You never have answered mine. But that's ok. You don't have to if you do not want to.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You never have answered mine. But that's ok. You don't have to if you do not want to.

I did answer, but after I answered you answered mine with another question. It should be a bit of give and take no? Especially when I have answered the majority of the questions. :0 )

 

[pescador]

If love fulfilled the law, we could twist our concept of love into anything we want, to justify our actions. We could convince ourselves that lying to someone is out of love. That committing adultery is out of love. That murder is out of love. That the prophets were nothing, we just need love; running the danger of negating the Bible altogether.

So what is your concept of love? You seem to have that clear understanding but others don't.

 

[pasifika]

If love fulfilled the law, we could twist our concept of love into anything we want, to justify our actions. We could convince ourselves that lying to someone is out of love. That committing adultery is out of love. That murder is out of love. That the prophets were nothing, we just need love; running the danger of negating the Bible altogether.

As per my prior post, it is love that the law and the prophets hang on. Love is the summation of the law, the precept on which the law and the prophets hang. Obedience is dependent on love and the law combined.

Lying can never comes out of Love, murder can never comes out of Love, adultery can never comes out of Love or any other evil ways...Because Love only comes from God and God does NO evil...

God is Love...and anyone who loves others shows God lives in them...

Also notice "Love one another is a commandment"...not written in the stone tablet..

 

[Nathan@work]

If love fulfilled the law, we could twist our concept of love into anything we want, to justify our actions. We could convince ourselves that lying to someone is out of love. That committing adultery is out of love. That murder is out of love. That the prophets were nothing, we just need love; running the danger of negating the Bible altogether.

You say "if love fulfilled the law", Paul said it does;

[Rom 13:8-10 ESV] Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

[Freth]

So what is your concept of love? You seem to have that clear understanding but others don't.

True love? True love has the unique quality of the absence of sin. Love is selfless. Love is meek. Love is unconditional. Love is true. Sin is self. Sin is pride. Sin is conditional.

 

[Nathan@work]

I did answer, but after I answered you answered mine with another question. It should be a bit of give and take no? Especially when I have answered the majority of the questions. :0 )

Honestly, if you went back and read the chain of posts, you will see you never did answer my question.

You kept on asking me questions in return, and I finally had to stop with the one because it seemed if I kept going then you would never answer.

But I would be happy to answer any of yours that I have missed. Ask away.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Honestly, if you went back and read the chain of posts, you will see you never did answer my question.

You kept on asking me questions in return, and I finally had to stop with the one because it seemed if I kept going then you would never answer.

But I would be happy to answer any of yours that I have missed. Ask away.

Okay, I'm willing to try again. Once I have more time. Need to get back to work! God bless.

 

[Nathan@work]

I'll post it here so you do not have to dig for it.

[Rev 14:12 ESV] Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

Do you believe the passage is specific to just a certain number of them?

If so, which ones, and why do you believe it is only limited to those?

 

[Freth]

You say "if love fulfilled the law", Paul said it does;

[Rom 13:8-10 ESV] Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

The King James Version:

Romans 13:8-10 Owe no man any thing [debt], but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet [sin]; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

1) Why would Paul list commandments if they weren't relevant? He is literally pointing to sin (disobedience of said commandments) which is the opposite of righteous, sinless love. You just made the point in my last post.

2) Look at verse 13. "Let us walk honestly [truth; not lying], as in the day; not in rioting [violent disturbance of the peace] and drunkenness [intoxication], not in chambering [adultery] and wantonness [lacking restraint or control; the quality of being lewd and lascivious], not in strife [conflict] and envying [covetousness]." Commandments. Sin.

 

[Leaf473]

I agree. The thread has been very polite.

Typically these discussions can spiral out of control very quickly.

It may just be that we are all wanting to love each other as ourself and it is showing.

Yes, and I want to add that if someone believes that I have dodged a question, please point that out to me!

 

[Nathan@work]

The King James Version:

Romans 13:8-10 Owe no man any thing [debt], but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet [sin]; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

1) Why would Paul list commandments if they weren't relevant? He is literally pointing to sin (disobedience of said commandments) which is the opposite of righteous, sinless love. You just made the point in my last post.

2) Look at verse 13. "Let us walk honestly [truth; not lying], as in the day; not in rioting [violent disturbance of the peace] and drunkenness [intoxication], not in chambering [adultery] and wantonness [lacking restraint or control; the quality of being lewd and lascivious], not in strife [conflict] and envying [covetousness]." Commandments. Sin.

You said "if the law fulfilled", as in, it may or may not. Paul says it does, as in, there are no questions about it.

Paul is specifically saying that when you love, you fulfill the law. He does not say when you fulfill the law, then you are loving.

I never said the commandments were not relevant. I am saying, as did Paul, that when you love - you fulfill them.

The Spirit would never lead a person to not love. If you are being led of the Spirit, you can be sure you are loving - and therefore fulfilling the law(and commandments )

 

[Leaf473]

I think it comes down to our choices and free will. Like a choice to keep Sabbath or go to church on Sunday or not go to church at all. Just like when someone asks you a question, you can choose to answer truthfully or choose to add a bit of lie with the truth. God loves us so much He gives us the freedom to make these choices even if it hurts Him.

The Bible references the wide path vs the narrow one. I do not think that its a good reason to do something just because its what everyone else is doing. I understand for someone who has never been to church on Sabbath, was not raised with Sabbath-keeping, all their friends go to church on Sunday, etc. God's 4th commandment seems a bit foreign. I think when you really commit yourself to God and allow the Holy Spirit to work in you and you earnestly want to follow God, He will lead you to keeping all of His commandments. Most people don't even know why they go to church on Sunday or that there is no scripture in the entire Bible saying to keep Sunday a Holy day or its God's Sabbath. Most people don't know how the primary day of worship was changed, who changed it, what does it mean when you observe the first day as worship according to who changed it. I think God made the Bible exactly how He intended. That those who want to commit will seek Him with all their heart and allow His Spirit to guide them to the Truth. I think there are a lot of people who dip their toes in religion but don't want to be fully committed to God which includes members of the SDA church.

Okay, now, I'm hearing you saying that the fourth commandment seems a bit foreign to people who haven't been raised in a church that practices it.

But doesn't God write these things on our heart? Do people know what is written on their heart, in your view?

 

[Clare73]

Looks like we see it differently!

See Romans 2:29 for the same juxtaposition of Spirit and law.

"No, a man is Jew if he is one outwardly; and circumcision is of the heart by the Spirit, not by the written code (letter)." (Ro 2:29)

2Corinthians 3:3-9 - two covenants regarding the law:
Mosaic - law engraved in letters on tablets of stone; ministry of death due to curse of the law,

New Covenant - law written on tablets of human hearts (v.3), ministry of life (v.6), righteousness (v.9), power of love and obedience (v.3) by the Holy Spirit,

which are now fulfilled in obedience to Jesus' two commands of Matthew 22:37-40; Romans 13:8-10.

"Binding force"? That's plain scary. How about source of obedience.

How about if we start here, and keeping in mind the subject of the thread, we'll see where we end up?

Paul writes
Are we beginning again to commend ourselves? Or do we need, as do some, letters of commendation to you or from you?

Do we agree that the kind of letters Paul is talking about here would be some kind of epistle, similar to what today we might put in an envelope and mail? probably written on parchment or something similar?

Yes. . .continue.