Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

[Nathan@work]

Yes, it's in the first four of the Ten Commandments. Jesus said on love hangs all the law and the prophets. All of the law is love, therefore, it stands to reason that all of the law either teaches us to love God or love others.

If you read my post, I just made that point:

"Conclusion: God gave the Ten Commandments special significance. Whatever laws show us how to love God and love others are eternally binding, just as love is eternal, just as the Ten Commandments are eternal."​

Could you please show me in the Bible where it is listed in the 10 Commandments? You can use the list from either Exodus or Deuteronomy, or both. Your choice.

 

[Nathan@work]

All of them. Why do you think the rest of God's commandments aren't included? The most well-known of these are the Ten Commandments , but the first five books of the Bible -- the Torah -- contain a total of 613 commandments covering many aspects of daily life, including family, personal hygiene and diet.

I don't believe that believers are supposed to choose which of God's commandments to obey and which to ignore. That said, believers are not under law but under grace, guided by the Holy Spirit, not by the written laws no matter how many there are.

I never said they were not included.

 

[Freth]

Could you please show me in the Bible where it is listed in the 10 Commandments? You can use the list from either Exodus or Deuteronomy, or both. Your choice.

Exodus 20:6, smack dab in the middle of the Ten Commandments—"And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."

Deuteronomy 5:10—"And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments."

 

[Nathan@work]

Exodus 20:6, smack dab in the middle of the Ten Commandments—"And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."

Deuteronomy 5:10—"And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments."

Hmmmm, I have 10 fingers and 10 toes, but if I count all of the list and add the one you posted in, I come up with 11 commandments.

Could you number the 10 Commandments for me so I can see which number that one is. I am a visual learner.

 

[Freth]

Hmmmm, I have 10 fingers and 10 toes, but if I count all of the list and add the one you posted in, I come up with 11 commandments.

Could you number the 10 Commandments for me so I can see which number that one is. I am a visual learner.

Nice try, Nathan, but I'm not taking the bait.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

All of them. Why do you think the rest of God's commandments aren't included? The most well-known of these are the Ten Commandments , but the first five books of the Bible -- the Torah -- contain a total of 613 commandments covering many aspects of daily life, including family, personal hygiene and diet.

I don't believe that believers are supposed to choose which of God's commandments to obey and which to ignore. That said, believers are not under law but under grace, guided by the Holy Spirit, not by the written laws no matter how many there are.

So grace is a license to sin?

 

[Nathan@work]

Nice try, Nathan, but I'm not taking the bait.

Well, I was not fishing. Not unless you consider me trying to help you see something that is often overlooked. In that sense, I was throwing out a life preserver - not a fish hook.

But I can assume from your answer that as you see, it is not one of the '10 Commandments'.

However, we know it is a commandment, and likewise, we should keep it.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Well, I was not fishing. Not unless you consider me trying to help you see something that is often overlooked. In that sense, I was throwing out a life preserver - not a fish hook.

But I can assume from your answer that as you see, it is not one of the '10 Commandments'.

However, we know it is a commandment, and likewise, we should keep it.

I think you may of missed the whole point of @Freth post.

 

[Nathan@work]

I think you may of missed the whole point of @Freth post.

Maybe?

What is his point of "Nice try, Nathan, but I'm not taking the bait." ?

 

[Leaf473]

Paul didn't "pun" an idea already in existence. It is Paul's statement that is being "punned"--misquoted and misappropriated.
The letter means the law that was written; i.e., the law of God.
Paul is not pitting "inner attitude' against "outward obedience" because
that is not what "letter" and "Spirit" mean.

Letter means the "law of God," not "outward obedience," and
Spirit means the "Holy Spirit," not "inner attitude."

Looks like we see it differently!

How about if we start here, and keeping in mind the subject of the thread, we'll see where we end up?

Paul writes
Are we beginning again to commend ourselves? Or do we need, as do some, letters of commendation to you or from you?

Do we agree that the kind of letters Paul is talking about here would be some kind of epistle, similar to what today we might put in an envelope and mail? probably written on parchment or something similar?

 

[Leaf473]

God made a distinction in His laws and here is an example

2 Kings 21:8, Neither will I make the feet of Israel move any more out of the land which I gave their fathers; only if they will observe to do according to all that I have commanded them, and according to all the law that my servant Moses commanded them.

God's laws have always been separated. It is called God's LAW or the 10 Commandment, because God was the one alone who made it and commanded Moses to keep in separated from the book of the law in the Ark of the Covenant (Neh 10:29; Deut 10:4-5; Deut 31:25-26; Deut 4:13; Ex 34:28)

God's LAW was not made by Moses it was made by God alone on two tables of stone and nothing was to be added to it and it was to be separated from the Mosaic book of the law. That is why it is referred to in the scriptures as God's LAW or the 10 commandments (My commandments, His commandments).

The Mosaic law was made and written and spoken by Moses as directed by God in the book of the covenant. (Mosaic Book of the law; Deut 31:9; Ex 24:3-4; Deut 31:24-27; Col 2:14-17).

God not only commanded Moses to keep the 10 Commandments separated from the Mosaic book of the law in the Ark of the Covenant (Deut 10:5; 31:25-26 nothing was to be added to it (Deut 4:1-2; Deut 5:22)

I hope this helps.

God bless

Yes, I agree that The ten commandments have attributes that other laws do not, like that they were placed inside the ark. And there are other parts of the law that have other attributes, such as this section was given in the land of Moab.

But then when you say
"The Mosaic law was made and written and spoken by Moses as directed by God in the book of the covenant."

God spoke those before Moses wrote them down. Why do you not refer to them as God's laws?

 

[Freth]

Well, I was not fishing. Not unless you consider me trying to help you see something that is often overlooked. In that sense, I was throwing out a life preserver - not a fish hook.

But I can assume from your answer that as you see, it is not one of the '10 Commandments'.

However, we know it is a commandment, and likewise, we should keep it.

Jesus linked love with all the law and the prophets as the binding force behind them. Therefore, love is at the center of every commandment. The very point I made in my previous post, when I said, "All of the law is love"; something you overlooked or ignored, or you wouldn't have replied with what you did.

Love being the eleventh commandment is a moot point. Love is every commandment.

I get the impression you want to argue endless semantics.

 

[pasifika]

Jesus linked love with all the law and the prophets as the binding force behind them. Therefore, love is at the center of every commandment. The very point I made in my previous post, when I said, "All of the law is love"; something you overlooked or ignored, or you wouldn't have replied with what you did.

Love being the eleventh commandment is a moot point. Love is every commandment.

I get the impression you want to argue endless semantics.

Hello Freth, so love fulfills the entire law...ie if we love one another we uphold or fulfilled all commandments in the Law. ..

 

[Nathan@work]

Jesus linked love with all the law and the prophets as the binding force behind them. Therefore, love is at the center of every commandment. The very point I made in my previous post, when I said, "All of the law is love"; something you overlooked or ignored, or you wouldn't have replied with what you did.

Love being the eleventh commandment is a moot point. Love is every commandment.

I get the impression you want to argue endless semantics.

Ah, now we get to the meat!

I wondered how long it would be till the word 'semantics' came up.

Jesus did not just link love with the others, He defined it as being the sum of the others.

Therefore, when we love God with all our hearts, mind, soul, and strength - when we love others as ourselves - we keep ALL of God's commandments.

So, when we read that passage in Revelation(or any other for that matter) in where it states the "commandments", we know that those who love are fulfilling His commandments.

Does not seem too complicated to me.

If Jesus summed up all of God's commandments into just two, why do people insist on breaking them back down into many?

 

[Freth]

Hello Freth, so love fulfills the entire law...ie if we love one another we uphold or fulfilled all commandments in the Law. ..

As in my previous post: "God gave the Ten Commandments special significance. Whatever laws show us how to love God and love others are eternally binding, just as love is eternal, just as the Ten Commandments are eternal."

 

[Leaf473]

What did God say about the other days? What did God specifically say about the seventh day? God did say His seventh day is THE Holy day Exodus 20:8-11, so how is that different than what you are saying.

I don't think God said that the Seventh day is the only holy day, or the only day that can be holy.

Do you know what I mean?

 

[pasifika]

As in my previous post: "God gave the Ten Commandments special significance. Whatever laws show us how to love God and love others are eternally binding, just as love is eternal, just as the Ten Commandments are eternal."

Well, you mentioned in your post#1212 that love is the binding force behind the law and Prophets...also the center of every commandments..so Love is what we need right?

 

[Leaf473]

Let me ask you this, do you think grace is a license to sin? Is it a sin to lie? A sin to vain His name? Is this something we are supposed to do or not do? What does the scripture tell us about who God shows mercy to or how we enter into life? It's an open invitation to everyone, God wants to save everyone, but this is one of the last scriptures in the Bible and not by accident Revelations 22:14 14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

It's something we are supposed to do- not worship other idols, not lie, keep His Sabbath Holy etc. When we love Jesus with all our hearts and put Him above all else, we will want to keep His commandments. They are in our hearts and minds like stated in the New Covenant.

I can't answer the last question because I am not sure what you do. That is between you and God. We are given instructions by God and Jesus for good reason. It up to you if you want to listen and obey. God bless

I'm happy to try to answer all your questions, but I'm concerned that we will lose track of what I was asking.

I am asking about how this works in your mind, so I don't think it should require any answers from me. And it doesn't have to be about me specifically. Certainly you must know people who believe that Jesus was sent from God and and that he rose from the dead, the basic Christian beliefs.

Yet most of these people do not keep the Sabbath, as you understand it.

How does that work in your mind? Is that commandment not written on their heart?

 

[Leaf473]

Maybe you can tell me. This is what God said about His commandments (The Ten).

God's LAW was written and made by God alone on two tables of stone and spoken by God himself to his people and nothing was to be added to it. (God's LAW; Ex 32:16; 34:28; Deut 4:13; 10:4; Exodus 20; Romans 3:20, 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; Ps 119:172; James 2:8-12; Hebrews 8:10-12; Gal 3:24; Deut 5:22; Ex 34:28; Deut 10:4 Ecc 3:14; Ex 25:16; Deut 10:5)

It is called God's LAW or the 10 Commandment, because God was the one alone who made it and commanded Moses to keep in separated from the book of the law in the Ark of the Covenant (Neh 10:29; Deut 10:4-5; Deut 31:25-26; Deut 4:13; Ex 34:28)

God's LAW was not made by Moses it was made by God alone on two tables of stone and nothing was to be added to it and it was to be separated from the Mosaic book of the law. That is why it is referred to in the scriptures as God's LAW or the 10 commandments (not the 613).

The Mosaic law was made and written and spoken by Moses as directed by God in the book of the covenant. (Mosaic Book of the law; Deut 31:9; Ex 24:3-4; Deut 31:24-27; Col 2:14-17).

God not only commanded Moses to keep the 10 Commandments separated from the Mosaic book of the law in the Ark of the Covenant (Deut 10:5; 31:25-26 nothing was to be added to it (Deut 4:1-2; Deut 5:22)

God makes a distinction between the 10 Commandments and the book of the law of Moses….

2 Kings 21:8, Neither will I make the feet of Israel move any more out of the land which I gave their fathers; only if they will observe to do according to all that I have commanded them, and according to all the law that my servant Moses commanded them.

Hi imge,

First I want to say that I think of you as a dear Christian sister, and I only want the best for you, as I'm sure you only want the best for me.

I want to say this as gently as possible, but I think how you begin the word post is by dodging.

Nathan@work has been asking you repeatedly what your view of a particular scripture is.

Yet you reply with
"Maybe you can tell me."

Well, the question put to you was what you think about something.

This is a common experience, btw. We all do it. It usually happens when our minds begin to realize that we hold two opposing thoughts.

This thread has been wonderfully polite, and I don't want to do anything to change that, so I'm treading as lightly as I possibly can.

I'm also fully aware that I am writing this post just after I have responded to a post of yours in which you asked me a string of questions which I do not answer in my response. I'm happy to try to answer any question you put to me, but I am on a cell phone so it's easier if I just do one question at a time. Is there a particular question you want me to start with from any of your posts?

Peace be with you, my wonderful sister in Christ!

 

[Leaf473]

The ten commandments were the words of the old covenant, right? Christians are not under the words of the old covenant. Paul wrote the following about the ten commandments:
2Cor3: 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

Notice Paul is writing about the ten commandments in past tense. Also, notice that the translators in the NIV use the word transitory which means temporary. If you care to look up the KJV you will find the words "done away" used to describe the condition of the ten commandments.

All the debating over a set of rules given to only one nation that no longer exists is a work of futility.

I know some come-backs. You will claim lawlessness, we can now commit all sorts of sins because we don't have any laws. That is simply not true. Christians are under the law of love. See Jn15:10-14. the love laws cover all debauchery and sins committed to others.

I agree with the thrust of your post, that which was engraved in stone came with glory, but how much more glorious is the ministry of the spirit!