Religious education needed, please.

[Robban]

And how do those quotes

invalidate the claims of Chrisrtianity?

I will just have to leave it up to you to think a while,

 

[Rajni]

Now your putting words in my mouth.

What words was I putting in your mouth?

I've said all along that to save one must have faith in Jesus. Not everyone has that so not everyone will be saved.

You've just confirmed what I was saying, that Christianity has requirements, just like any other religion.

 

[dlamberth]

So you've gone from a God that created all of time, space, energy, matter, suns, planets, life and organised all this and is interested in us to a devine spark that lives in us.

What your missing is that the Divine Spark that we can see is also seen IN all that you mentioned. It's not just a "belief", it's something a person can see.

 

[dlamberth]

Now your putting words in my mouth.

He does that.

 

[dlamberth]

How do you know that the spiritual world plays by different rules?

By observations.

What greater example of Love in actionis there than Jesus.

The whole of Creation that stretches out to the very edges of the cosmos.

You want something bigger than Jesus?
The bible says he is the creator, what can be greater than the creator or his Love for you or for me?

Other than mental concepts, how real is the bigger Jesus to you? Do you "experience" Christ in a Cosmic sense? Do you "see" Christ in the trees, plants, animals, the planets and sun's, the earth and in every other human being? Saying or even believing it is one thing, but actually have it as one's absolute reality such that it's what they "see" in life is another.

 

[Tolworth John]

What your missing is that the Divine Spark that we can see is also seen IN all that you mentioned. It's not just a "belief", it's something a person can see.

No I'm talking about a Being that created everything and you are talking about a being that is in everything.
One is larger than its creation the other is at best the same size.

 

[dlamberth]

Is '
panentheism claims the God is greater than the universe and that the universe is contained within God. Panentheism holds that God is the “supreme effect” of the universe. God is everything in the universe, but God also is greater than the universe. Events and changes in the universe affect and change God. As the universe grows and learns, God also increases in knowledge and being.'
An accurate understanding of what you believe?

I'd shorten your words to God is in all, and all is in God.

 

[Tolworth John]

By observations.

Which leaves us in the position of 'A' says 'I see that this behaviour is permitted' while 'C' says it is not permitted.
Depending what one watches anything can be justified.

Other than mental concepts, how real is the bigger Jesus to you? Do you "experience" Christ in a Cosmic sense? Do you "see" Christ in the trees, plants, animals, the planets and sun's, the earth and in every other human being? Saying or even believing it is one thing, but actually have it as one's absolute reality such that it's what they "see" in life is another

I don't need to 'experience' Jesus in the trees, etc.
I trust the accuracy of the bible to tell me about God and of my need to be in a right relationship with him.
I also know that I cannot live up to my moral standards let alone Gods standards.

The combination of historical fact and the spiritual reality that is in the bible is why I follow Jesus.

 

[dlamberth]

Which leaves us in the position of 'A' says 'I see that this behaviour is permitted' while 'C' says it is not permitted.
Depending what one watches anything can be justified.

Observing what happens in the spiritual world gives one the wisdom and insight that one can not get in this physical world. For instance, watching the activity of Love and how it influences people is a spiritual activity that begets wisdom that a person can get no other way.

I don't need to 'experience' Jesus in the trees, etc.

If Christ can not be experienced even in the trees and life around us, than we are back to a limited vista of God. Personally I think that lack of being able to see the sacredness in nature is what's led to our destruction of this planet. For Christians seeing the sacredness of nature and Creation would be greatly enhanced if they were also able to see Christ within it.

I trust the accuracy of the bible to tell me about God and of my need to be in a right relationship with him.

I get that it's a right relationship with God that your focused on. Many of us though are pulled to much more than that.

I also know that I cannot live up to my moral standards let alone Gods standards.

Moral standards are important. How are you feeling about the rape and desecration of God's Creation here on Earth as a moral issue?

The combination of historical fact and the spiritual reality that is in the bible is why I follow Jesus.

Personally, I think it's important to also include a cosmic Christ into one's cosmology.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Where did I say, in a post about the limitation of the love of allah, that murders should be loved?

You seems to complain the (apparently) Allah loves only the believers. In Christianity I think God loves all. So I was on that track, sorry for any illogical leaps!

 

[GrowingSmaller]

I will show you why is it confusing. Take an example to explain:

In Islam, rape a muslim is a sin, but rape an infidel is not a sin. Because Allah said so.

I am not sure about this rule which is oft mentioned. Do you have any fatwas by recognised traditional scholars validating this claim???

How would a muslim see rape when there is no infidel in this world? Of course, in that case, it would always be a sin (said so by Allah). So, in a all-muslim world, sin still exist. Islam has no solution to it. When there were no enemy around for Jihad, all muslims will then be doomed by sin.

So, it is, after all, a very shallow idea for opportunist. It easily justify sinful actions in wars. Because it is based on an instinct of human action-reaction (if you do not obey, then I rape with a justification). It does not have an answer to the problem of sin, because human wisdom (include the Islam) can not find an answer to it.

See above.

 

[Tolworth John]

You seems to complain the (apparently) Allah loves only the believers. In Christianity I think God loves all. So I was on that track, sorry for any illogical leaps!

No I was quoting what islam teaches.
Which is muslims have to earn the love of allah.

Yes in Christianity God loves all people.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

No I was quoting what islam teaches.
Which is muslims have to earn the love of allah.

Yes in Christianity God loves all people.

Even the ones He sends to hell for not believing in Him?

 

[Tolworth John]

Observing what happens in the spiritual world gives one the wisdom and insight that one can not get in this physical world

Except it does not teach one about Jesus or of our need to be right with God.
So what it is teaching is false.

For Christians seeing the sacredness of nature and Creation would be greatly enhanced if they were also able to see Christ within it.

Jesus created everything, he is not in everything.

I get that it's a right relationship with God that your focused on. Many of us though are pulled to much more than that.

Toknow God, to be in a relationship wioth the creator of theuniverse.
There is nothing greater than that.

You are turning away from your creator to concentrate on his creation. Turning from the greatest there is to something far smaller and you call this wisdom.

 

[Tolworth John]

Even the ones He sends to hell for not believing in Him?

Yes God loves them and offers them forgiveness.
They have to accept that offer.

 

[Tolworth John]

Even the ones He sends to hell for not believing in Him?

God's love is not negated by his Justice.

 

[juvenissun]

I am not sure about this rule which is oft mentioned. Do you have any fatwas by recognised traditional scholars validating this claim???

Of course I don't. But muslim people on this forum are quiet. What does that mean?

 

[Hammster]

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