Religious Conservatives Don't Fully Understand the Good Samaritan

[Douglas Hendrickson]

All caps won't help a weak argument.

All caps won't help a weak argument.

Just trying to point to the main point.
Jesus did not make much of the race or ethnicity thing.

Does bolding get by your non-argument?

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

You seem to be trying to restrict the meaning of neighbor.

In the Old Testament, the Sabbath Commandment applied to foreigners as well as Jews. In other words, they also deserve a day off.

If Christians treat everyone with fairness and compassion, isn't that the best way to show the world that Christians are a force for good? Isn't that a great way to get people interested in knowing more about Christianity?

As far as all men being brothers, if everyone is descended from Eve, then we are all cousins.

Very very very distant "cousins." At least cousins is a bit closer to the truth.

And "fairness and compassion" may fall a little (or a lot?) short of "loving as thy self."
I think your point is correct, but it may be a different point.

 

[FireDragon76]

If Jesus didn't make much of ethnicity, he would not have mentioned... "oh BTW, this good guy in the story is a SAMARITAN". In order to transcend ethnicity, he first had to acknowledge it.

 

[Soyeong]

Being a Christian is defined by what you believe. That is not necessarily related to what you do.

What we do reflects what we believe.

Standards that, if upheld, would leave churches empty.

Are you really denying that you qualify as a Christian?

 

[FireDragon76]

What we do reflects what we believe.

Only in an ideal sense. In reality, we are sinners and we fall short of our ideals.

Are you really denying that you qualify as a Christian?

I am a Christian by confession.

 

[Soyeong]

Only in an ideal sense. In reality, we are sinners and we fall short of our ideals.

When do we do when we sin also reflects our beliefs.

I am a Christian by confession.

Do you agree that not everyone who confesses to be a Christian is one? You said churches would be empty if the standard for what qualifies as a Christian were upheld, so do you qualify as a Christian?

 

[FireDragon76]

When do we do when we sin also reflects our beliefs.

Good people sometimes do bad things. What you are holding forth as the criteria for defining who is Christian, is an unrealistic standard that does not comport with the human condition.

Do you agree that not everyone who confesses to be a Christian is one?

No, I don't. I don't believe in judging people like that.

 

[Soyeong]

Good people sometimes do bad things. What you are holding forth as the criteria for defining who is Christian, is an unrealistic standard that does not comport with the human condition.



No, I don't. I don't believe in judging people like that.

A "Christian" is by definition "a follower of Christ". However, if someone who makes no attempt at following Christ, and makes every attempt to do what he taught against qualifies as a Christian simply because they confess it, then the term is meaningless. Categories are useful tools that convey information to us about what is in that category, but if such a person is within the realm of possibilities when you confess to be a Christian, then you aren't conveying any information to me, so to be useful it must distinguish between what does and does not belong in that category. So if you refuse to distinguish between who is and who is not a Christian, then it is meaningless for you to confess to be one. If there is any information that you want to convey to me when you confess to be a Christian, then I should be able to distinguish that someone for whom that information is false is not a Christian. Again the Bible contains guidelines for expelling people from the community, so it is unbiblical to refuse to judge people like that, and this standard is not one that would require everyone to be expelled from the community.

 

[FireDragon76]

I'll give the same answer Luther would. I am a Christian because I am baptized. Does that imply perfection? No. Then why would I demand perfection of others? You don't get to corner the market on definitions of "Christian". By the standards of the forum, I am a Christian. Being a Christian is not defined by ones morality. The morality, or ethics, rather, follows from being freely justified by God, apart from works, to lovingly serve our neighbor. Our belonging does not follow from our obedience.

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

I'll give the same answer Luther would. I am a Christian because I am baptized. Does that imply perfection? No. Then why would I demand perfection of others? You don't get to corner the market on definitions of "Christian". By the standards of the forum, I am a Christian. Being a Christian is not defined by ones morality. The morality, or ethics, rather, follows from being freely justified by God, apart from works, to lovingly serve our neighbor. Our belonging does not follow from our obedience.

Are you saying MORALITY has nothing to do with the Ten Commandments, conforming (or not) to them, for instance?

You seem to be saying, "it does not matter what I do, so long's I am justified by God?"
And lovingly serve. Would "loving serve" include conformity to the Law?

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

If Jesus didn't make much of ethnicity, he would not have mentioned... "oh BTW, this good guy in the story is a SAMARITAN". In order to transcend ethnicity, he first had to acknowledge it.

"Mention" is one thing.

Making much of it is quite something else, imho.

To mention may be a first bit, like you suggest. Can it or does it rise to the whole "transcendence," or is it just a passing anomaly?

Is it merely an antidote, a one time thing. Or without even mentioning it further, does it provide a universal principle?

 

[Hank77]

The parable of the Good Samaritan certainly is about helping those who are down, especially victims of sudden misfortune. Yet there is another element here, that ethnic barriers and nominal religion should not stop us from reaching out to a neighbor in trouble. Jesus shows us the supposed heretic doing the will of God by showing compassion, and overcoming all barriers between the two communities in the process.

In simple terms...
Hey, see that guy. You think you are more righteous than he is, but that guy is doing what you should be doing.

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

In simple terms...
Hey, see that guy. You think you are more righteous than he is, but that guy is doing what you should be doing.

Yes, it is mostly if not entirely about the DOING, the deed ; not so much if at all about WHO is doing the doing.
Being neighbor unto, truly being a neighbor.
The truth or "cash value" of being a neighbor, a "neighbor in love," doing unto the neighbor like one would want to be done unto oneself.

 

[Dale]

Yes, it is mostly if not entirely about the DOING, the deed ; not so much if at all about WHO is doing the doing.
Being neighbor unto, truly being a neighbor.
The truth or "cash value" of being a neighbor, a "neighbor in love," doing unto the neighbor like one would want to be done unto oneself.

Doing good works is certainly important, but many works are easier for some people than others, depending on circumstances. The Samaritan's identity is important partly because he had more barriers to overcome. Not only did have things to do, as the others who passed by did, but people would be surprised that a Samaritan would help a Jew. Other Samaritans may not like it, so it might make him unpopular. Works matter but you can't always wait until they are convenient.

 

[Dale]

"Mention" is one thing.

Making much of it is quite something else, imho.

To mention may be a first bit, like you suggest. Can it or does it rise to the whole "transcendence," or is it just a passing anomaly?

Is it merely an antidote, a one time thing. Or without even mentioning it further, does it provide a universal principle?

5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6 “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.”
7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?”
8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”
10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would.” And his servant was healed at that moment.
-- Matthew 8: 5-13 NIV


I'm not sure it is true to say that Jesus meant to make a big deal of ethnicity or denomination. He did feel it was necessary to counter those who assumed that their ancestry and religious affiliation would both save them and put them higher on the ladder than those folks out there.

In this passage, Jesus first praises the faith of a Roman Centurion. Remember that Peter was a zealot, one of those inclined to radical opposition to the Romans. Peter must have been surprised, or even concerned, or downright baffled, when Jesus made this comment. Then Jesus goes on to say that many who consider themselves part of God's Kingdom will be throw out even as others, apparent outsiders, will be welcomed!

If Christians are now the new Jews, that warning could apply to Christendom as well, could it not?

 

[Hank77]

but people would be surprised that a Samaritan would help a Jew.

The scripture doesn't say the beaten man was a Jew, if he had been both the priest and Levite would have helped him.
It was a Jew that asked the question..
"Who is my neighbor?"
Jesus, through his parable, said every man is your neighbor.

 

[Hank77]

If Christians are now the new Jews, that warning could apply to Christendom as well, could it not?

I don't believe Christians are the 'new Jews' but I get your point and yes the Church needs to keep this mind, as well.

 

[Dale]

I don't believe Christians are the 'new Jews' but I get your point and yes the Church needs to keep this mind, as well.

You are correct that the notion that Christianity has replaced Judaism should not be taken too far. I did a thread criticizing Replacement Theology a while back.

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

I don't believe Christians are the 'new Jews' but I get your point and yes the Church needs to keep this mind, as well.

Yes, many who think they are of the kingdom may not be much of God "after all."
When the sheep are separated from the goats.
I think Christendom in general is well aware of this warning; the Jews may not have been but that was before Jesus.

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

Dale, do you agree with Hank on this? :

The scripture doesn't say the beaten man was a Jew, if he had been both the priest and Levite would have helped him.