Rejection of Mary as your mediator (2)

Uphill Battle · Mar 15, 2008

jckstraw72 said:
so God basically raped her then?

I hate this arguement.

For God to be a rapist, he'd have to be one of us. A rape is a man forcing himself on a women. In a case like this, it is more like the potter shaping the clay as he sees fit. (My, what a biblical concept!)

I notice that anyone who raises this objection, have no problem with God demanind the lives of people throughout the pages of the bible. For compelling, for expecting.

But then when it comes to Mary, if he does the same, he's a "rapist."

please. Everything belongs to God. EVERYTHING.

LittleLambofJesus · Mar 15, 2008

jckstraw72 said:
so God basically raped her then?

Never quite heard it put that way before.
A Muslim on the NCR had this view of Jesus and Mary

http://christianforums.com/t5859919-marypbuh-was-a-hermaphrodite.html&page=6&highlight=mary

...............Similarly birth without male intervension was a "miracle" in past, NOW it's science.

Similarly, angels, souls, heavens, miracles etc etc r part of GOD's SCIENCE. Some of science we'll be able to DISCOVER while other will remain un-covered to humans.

prodromos · Mar 15, 2008

Uphill Battle said:
I notice that anyone who raises this objection, have no problem with God demanind the lives of people throughout the pages of the bible. For compelling, for expecting.

Throughout the bible people always had the choice of being obedient to God or not. If they were not obedient then there were consequences of course, but no one was ever forced to be obedient.

John

Uphill Battle · Mar 15, 2008

prodromos said:
Throughout the bible people always had the choice of being obedient to God or not. If they were not obedient then there were consequences of course, but no one was ever forced to be obedient.

John

really. I see a different picture than you.

jckstraw72 · Mar 15, 2008

I hate this arguement.

i hate watching football. i just wanted to throw that out there haha.

For God to be a rapist, he'd have to be one of us. A rape is a man forcing himself on a women. In a case like this, it is more like the potter shaping the clay as he sees fit. (My, what a biblical concept!)

He raped her will, forced Himself on her body.

please. Everything belongs to God. EVERYTHING.

and He chose to give up some of His control to us so that we could be truly free. otherwise we could not truly love, as the Trinity is free to love, and our lives would be pointless.

sunlover1 · Mar 16, 2008

jckstraw72 said:
so God basically raped her then?

Did you see the passage that UB posted?

Did God 'tell' her, or did He 'ask' her?

jckstraw72 · Mar 16, 2008

Did you see the passage that UB posted?

Did God 'tell' her, or did He 'ask' her?

God laid out the plan, and then Mary accepted.

Does this really sound like God?:

God: you're going to have My Son.
Mary: ummmm I really DON'T want that
God: Tough its happening anyways. Look! You're already pregnant

sunlover1 · Mar 16, 2008

jckstraw72 said:
God laid out the plan, and then Mary accepted.

Does this really sound like God?:

God: you're going to have My Son.
Mary: ummmm I really DON'T want that
God: Tough its happening anyways. Look! You're already pregnant

But that's not what I asked.
I was asking you if in reference to
UB's posted verse if God told her
or asked her.

Does it 'sound' like something God would do?
His name implies that he CAN do such.
(He thinks He's GOD)
Well, He has been known to offer whale to those
who are reluctant. But it's a strawman anyhow:
Nobody is claiming that Mary wasnt 'willing' to obey
and blessed for carrying Jesus, but the passage
doesnt 'ask' for her permission.

E.C. · Mar 16, 2008

Albion said:
But EVERYONE considers her to be significant. What I was cautioning about was kiting or linking these things together and then proclaiming that the one requires a belief in the next.

Not true.
List of things which I have heard Protestants call Mary: harlot, witch, harlot of Babylon, damner of mankind, tool, pawn, prostitute, harlot, lady of the town, woman of the night, town bike, etc etc.

That's just from Protestants. If I posted what Atheists, with Protestant backgrounds, have said than that post would immediately be deleted.

Uphill Battle said:
no, I didn't. I know what her very noble response was.

that does very little to change the fact that she wasn't asked, she was told.

As was Jonah and not only did he say "no", but also tried to run away.

Need I bring up whales?

Uphill Battle · Mar 16, 2008

jckstraw72 said:
God laid out the plan, and then Mary accepted.

Does this really sound like God?:

God: you're going to have My Son.
Mary: ummmm I really DON'T want that
God: Tough its happening anyways. Look! You're already pregnant

does this?

God: You're going to go talk to Pharoh.
Moses: I really can't.
God: I'll help you, you're going.
Moses: I can't do it!
God: Stop whining. now GO!

yes, it sounds like God.

Uphill Battle · Mar 16, 2008

EmperorConstantine said:
Not true.
List of things which I have heard Protestants call Mary: harlot, witch, harlot of Babylon, damner of mankind, tool, pawn, prostitute, harlot, lady of the town, woman of the night, town bike, etc etc.

That's just from Protestants. If I posted what Atheists, with Protestant backgrounds, have said than that post would immediately be deleted.

As was Jonah and not only did he say "no", but also tried to run away.

Need I bring up whales?

and need I bring up what the result of the whole thing was?

what God wanted, God got. Didn't matter that Moses was a whiner, or Jonah was reluctant. They did what he said, when he willed it. Disobedience notwithstanding, the israelites absconded from Egypt with Moses in front, and the Ninivites got to hear Jonah on the soapbox.

God gives us free choice, yes. But when God says "you WILL"

It happens. He's not God otherwise.

Or, this example. The world is FULL of people who reject God, who deny his existance, who say that Jesus is a figment of our imagination.

what will be the end result? "EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW." every one. Even the unwilling. It's going to happen. Doesn't matter if you don't want to or not.

God is soverign. If he choses a course of action that "violates" our free will, it happens. He most often lets us play in the muck if we so chose, but the bible has accounts where he hoses people off and sends them to work, even when they were UNWILLING.

Uphill Battle · Mar 16, 2008

Mick116 said:
Sorry to jump in late in the thread, but seriously... where in the heck did you find such crazy Protestants?!?

same place we find the crazy Catholics and EO's.

Uphill Battle · Mar 16, 2008

jckstraw72 said:
i hate watching football. i just wanted to throw that out there haha.

then there is something deeply, deeply wrong with you.

He raped her will, forced Himself on her body.

are you suggesting that if I made a clay pot, and then decided what I wanted to put in it, I'd be RAPING it? Because that is pretty much the relationship between God and us. He made us, he owns us, he can do as he sees fit, and it would be GOOD and RIGHT. Now God gives us free choice the majority of the time. But frequently God steps in and says "you're doing this." or "this will happen." Our free will doesn't mean squat in the light of a God whose in charge.

and He chose to give up some of His control to us so that we could be truly free. otherwise we could not truly love, as the Trinity is free to love, and our lives would be pointless.

yes, some. not all. now how this relates to Mary, God knew before hand that Mary would be willing. He was not violating her "will" as she would respond exactly as we see in the bible. the fact remains, he did not ASK. he TOLD.

Mick116 · Mar 16, 2008

Uphill Battle · Mar 19, 2008

and thread comes to screeching halt.

lionroar0 · Mar 20, 2008

same place we find the crazy Catholics and EO's.

Disney World!!!!

Couldn't help it

Peace

RMDY · Mar 20, 2008

GregoryTurner said:
EC, I mean no disrespect towards you when I say this, but when you stated in thread #1 that Mary was "sinless", I need not read anything else you write just for the simple fact that Jesus was the only one who ever walked the earth that was sinless.

I totally disagree with any assertion that Mary was sinless. In fact, I believe anyone who asserts this has theology all wrong on the matter.
Only Jesus THE MESSIAH was sinless.

All of us are born through one man----Adam, where sin reined.
.
The rest of us who are born through another man---Jesus, receive life.

Jesus was a kind of Adam, and like Adam, had no sin. Sin was found in Adam, but no sin was found in Jesus. Just like Adam, Jesus had a perfect relationship with God. Nonetheless, Mary did not need to be sinless in order to bear Jesus for the Scriptures themselves clearly say that sin reined through one man, not one woman. Mary was born of Adam, therefore, sin reined in her whether she knew it or not.

Uphill Battle · Mar 20, 2008

lionroar0 said:
Disney World!!!!

Couldn't help it

Peace

I was thinking of the Simpsons episode, where Flanders sets up "Praiseland."

lionroar0 · Mar 21, 2008

I was thinking of the Simpsons episode, where Flanders sets up "Praiseland."

That's in Orlando too but I like Disney World better. Forget what it's called.

Peace

Rdr Iakovos · Mar 24, 2008

I reject Mary as my mediator, but gladly and enthusiastically accept her as intercessor.
And Job, and James, and Nectarios.

Tradition holds that Mary did not sin intentionally- much like Job, who is described as "blameless" and "righteous."
If those traits are attributed to Job, how hard is it to attribute them to Mary?

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