Rejection of Mary as your mediator (2)

[LittleLambofJesus]

That has got to top everything I have heard thus far. That is the farthest from the Word of God over anything I have ever heard.

Tradition appears to carry a lot of weight with both the RCC and Orthodox from what I have seen. Peace.

2 Thess 2:3 No any ye should be deluding according to no yet one manner/way, that if-ever no may be coming the apostasy/apo-stasia <646> first.
And may be being un-covered the Man of the Sin, the Son of the destruction/apwleiaV <684>.

 

[GregoryTurner]

Tradition appears to carry a lot of weight with both the RCC and Orthodox from what I have seen. Peace.

2 Thess 2:3 No any ye should be deluding according to no yet one manner/way, that if-ever no may be coming the apostasy/apo-stasia <646> first.
And may be being un-covered the Man of the Sin, the Son of the destruction/apwleiaV <684>.

What translation is this?

 

[E.C.]

What translation is this?

The LLOJ Version, complete with crazy characters and funny fonts!

 

[E.C.]

Tradition appears to carry a lot of weight with both the RCC and Orthodox from what I have seen. Peace.

2 Thess 2:3 No any ye should be deluding according to no yet one manner/way, that if-ever no may be coming the apostasy/apo-stasia <646> first.
And may be being un-covered the Man of the Sin, the Son of the destruction/apwleiaV <684>.

Personally, I prefer 2 Timothy 1:13,14

 

[jckstraw72]

Ok. May I ask where I can read about such a thing? Biblically speaking

taint gonna find nothin saying she didnt sin, and personally i dont believe she NEVER sinned.

but she is the most blessed woman as the angel Gabriel tells us.

as for her being the Ark of the New Covenant, I can lay out for you the parallels, but i dont know all the Scriptural references.

So in the OT the Philistines kidnapped the Ark of the Covenant, and the Jews go to get it back:

1. -The Ark is taken to a hilly town near Jerusalem to Obed-Edom's house
-Mary goes to visit Elizabeth in a hilly town near Jerusalem

2. - The Ark remains at his house for 3 months
- Mary remains at Elizabeth's house for 3 months

3. -King David says something along the lines of "who am I that the Ark of my Lord should come to me?"
- Elizabeth says "who am I that the Mother of my Lord should come to me?"

4. - the Ark contained the tablets of the Law, a jar of manna, and Aaron's rod, signifying the priesthood.
- Mary's womb contained the fulfillment of the Law, the Bread of Life, and our High Priest

5. - the glory of the Lord overshadowed the Ark
- the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary

6. - God spoke to the Jews from between the angels on the Ark
- The Word of God came from Mary's womb

7. Also, in Revelation 11 John sees the Ark of the Covenant, and then immediately following he sees the woman who gave birth to the Messiah -- Mary.

 

[prodromos]

Just in case you missed it (it was the last post before the thread split)

Hello? Do you spend so much time reading writings of men that you have not read your Bible?

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost

The bold part of the verse is, as you put it, the writings of men. It is a later addition to the bible and is not found in the early Greek manuscripts nor in the Syriac or other early translations.

John

 

[Rhamiel]

E.C.

This does not mean sinless in the Immaculate Conception sense which states that Mary did not even have the ability to sin.

I do not think that is the Catholic position, Adam was made without ancestral sin (heh no ancestor) and he was still free to sin. It was through His grace, that Mary was able to keep pure

 

[GregoryTurner]

Just in case you missed it (it was the last post before the thread split)

The bold part of the verse is, as you put it, the writings of men. It is a later addition to the bible and is not found in the early Greek manuscripts nor in the Syriac or other early translations.

John

Well I do not know how to read those languages so I have to go by my Bible. Thank you for pointing that out.

Now, what about the posts PW made aobut a=b, b=c, therefore a=c?

 

[Uphill Battle]

Just in case you missed it (it was the last post before the thread split)

The bold part of the verse is, as you put it, the writings of men. It is a later addition to the bible and is not found in the early Greek manuscripts nor in the Syriac or other early translations.

John

then how is it that Orthodox baptise in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?

and how is ist supposed to read then? I doubt it was written as

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of

It's incomplete.

 

[jckstraw72]

Now, what about the posts PW made aobut a=b, b=c, therefore a=c?

well thats human reasoning that isnt actually included in the Bible. Not everything is plainly spelled out in the Bible. If the Bible really was like a catechism which many Protestants treat it as, then the Trinity would be plainly stated, not left ambiguous, which can easily lead to error as it did with countless heresies which we see in the early days and still today.

 

[jckstraw72]

then how is it that Orthodox baptise in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?

well thats the correct way. i think perhaps he's just saying that verse was added later.

 

[prodromos]

then how is it that Orthodox baptise in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?

and how is ist supposed to read then? I doubt it was written as

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of

It's incomplete.

I believe the early manuscripts say "baptizing them in the name of God", and the reason it changed in later manuscripts is because a copyist inadvertently or deliberately wrote in the liturgical form, ie. the actual practice and expression used by the Church when baptising, just like some later manuscripts add "for thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory, now and forever, amen" after the Lord's Prayer in the gospels. It was the form of the Lord's prayer as used in the liturgy.

John

 

[Hentenza]

I believe the early manuscripts say "baptizing them in the name of God", and the reason it changed in later manuscripts is because a copyist inadvertently or deliberately wrote in the liturgical form, ie. the actual practice and expression used by the Church when baptising, just like some later manuscripts add "for thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory, now and forever, amen" after the Lord's Prayer in the gospels. It was the form of the Lord's prayer as used in the liturgy.

John

Hi John,

While it is true that no extant MSS containing the long version of Mat 18:19 survived, earlier writings confirm it's existence. The evidence of Eusebius (using the short version) must be regarded as inconclusive at best since earlier writings do not use his abbreviated version. A better explanation would be that Eusebius merely abbreviated the verse. Writings on this verse by earlier writers like Ignatius, Iranaeus, Tertullian, Hyppolytus, Cyprian, and others which quoted the longer version including the trinitarian formula support the existence of the longer version in the original text. The evidence is considerably stronger supporting the long version of Mat 28:19.

 

[E.C.]

E.C.
I do not think that is the Catholic position, Adam was made without ancestral sin (heh no ancestor) and he was still free to sin. It was through His grace, that Mary was able to keep pure

Sorry, but that is how I was taught back in the Roman school.

Adam was originally made without sin, but "user error" kicks in and goes down for generations and generations.

 

[sunlover1]

Well I do not know how to read those languages so I have to go by my Bible. Thank you for pointing that out.

Now, what about the posts PW made aobut a=b, b=c, therefore a=c?

Valid but unsound.

 

[Athanasias]

When protestants ask me if I ever accepted Jesus as my Personal Lord and Savior I always respond with "Yes I have, have you accepted Mary as your personal Mother"?

 

[GregoryTurner]

Valid but unsound.

How so?

 

[Hentenza]

When protestants ask me if I ever accepted Jesus as my Personal Lord and Savior I always respond with "Yes I have, have you accepted Mary as your personal Mother"?

Is accepting "Mary as your personal Mother" a condition for salvation?:o

 

[GregoryTurner]

Is accepting "Mary as your personal Mother" a condition for salvation?:o

My thoughts exactly

 

[Asinner]

Is accepting "Mary as your personal Mother" a condition for salvation?:o

Being that there would be no salvation had Mary said "no" to God, I would answer an emphatic YES!

Love,
Christina