Refuting Sola Scriptura - Why the Bible Alone is Not Sufficient

[Wgw]

So, are you saying that the tradition of men outweigh Scripture?

No, but rather Scripture is a part of the God-ordained Holy Tradition of the Orthodox Church, which is of divine origin.

 

[Wgw]

You would expect it to be clearly demonstrated.

As we see in Mark 7:6-13

Like this


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.



And like this

Acts 17:11 "they studied the SCRIPTURES daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were so"

Except once again, Mark 7:13 refers to the person of Christ and your eisegesis is refuted by 2 Thess 2:15.

Unfortunately putting text in a bold red underlined font does not make it accurate. Otherwise I might install myself in that manner as the despotic ruler of the Maldives.

 

[Wgw]

Care to name names....? No?

Essentially anyone who does not agree with OO....right?

Should we read Protestant in place of "heretical sects"...? If not, please specify.

I will take that as you just being to lazy or afraid to justify your own "claims". Want to prove me wrong?

Some names: Simon Magus, Nicolas the Deacon, Carpocrates, Menander, Marcion, Bardesan, Basilides, Valentinus, Manes, et al. Marcion. Montanus, Tertullian. Paul of Samosata. Arius, Eusebius of Nicomedia. Novatian. Nestorius. Eutyches. Pope Honorius I of Rome. More recently, John Calvin, by the EO anyway.

Now, as far as heretical sects that warrant new anathemas, I think most would fall into the spectrum of liberal Chrostoanity rather than Protestants, but certainly persons like George Fox, John Nelson Darby, Ellen G. White, and more recently, the likes of the late Chuck Smith, and Joel Osteen who is still extant, could well warrant being anathematized. On the liberal side a huge number of Episcopal bishops starting with James Pike would warrant anathemas, along with several Old Catholics, and various founders of neo-Gnostic sects, the Metropolitan Community Church and other sects formed on a neo-Gnostic theology centered around the un-Christian ideal of sexual liberation.

I believe the rather outspoken and disagreeable Metropolitan Seraphim of Pireaus already unilaterally added some persons from that list to the anathemas used on the Sunday of Orthodoxy (which was controversial as the standard Synodikon dates from the wake of the councils which defended St. Gregory Palamas from the charges of heresy levelled against him by Barlaam).

 

[Wgw]

LOL. You're thinking Christ and the apostles followed Rome's fixed Easter Sunday after the equinox after the first full moon.

As I said earlier, you're losing credibility and nigh have lost it completely now. But, let's give you one more benefit of the doubt as to your sincerity. Please show us where Christ and Peter and Paul followed Rome's Easter praxis. If you can't, then perhaps you might listen and learn something.

The feast of the Resurrection is not Passover, which is why quartodecimianism was rejected. It should be obvious that the Church of Rome, which was founded by St. Peter after he founded the Church of Antioch (of which I am a member) followed the genuine apostolic tradition of celebrating Easter on the Sunday that would have followed the Jewish Passover in the year Christ was crucified and resurrected.

 

[n2thelight]

Those 1,000s of churches have veered off from the 'True Church of Christ'. They then decided to make up things to suit themselves, unlike the Catholic Church which has stuck to the teachings of the Apostles / Disciples of Christ. The Catholic Church was started by Christ! This is where 'Tradition' in its purest form has remained true!

Its not scripture that is twisted. It is the interpretation of it by these break away factions over the course of history as they refuse to believe in the 'True Church of Christ'.

So buying one's way out of hell,would this be considered a tradition?

 

[Wgw]

So buying one's way out of hell,would this be considered a tradition?

Bearing in mind that I am not Roman Cathokic I can assure you this is not a facet of their theology.

 

[n2thelight]

Mark 7:8
"For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do."

Mark 7:9
"And He said unto them. "Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition."

Question

If tradition lines up with the Word,why do we need them?

 

[n2thelight]

Bearing in mind that I am not Roman Cathokic I can assure you this is not a facet of their theology.

It was

 

[Wgw]

The Word is the Jesus Christ (see John 1:1-14).

Tradition was enjoined upon us by St. Paul (2 Thess 2:15) as it has the effect of transmitting the Gospel message, through scripture, iconography, liturgy, theology and modes of individual praxis.

 

[n2thelight]

Give one example where one needs tradition....

 

[Wgw]

It was

No, it was not. You are thinking of the practice of indulgences, chantries, and so on, which according to the doctrine of purgatory (which is not an Orthodox theological concept) had the effect of remiting temporal punishment. For a time under Leo X indulgences were sold but this has been discontinued; the pirchased induogences were bought on behalf of a third party. This was an abhorrent practice but it is now extinct. I am not a fan of purgatory and indulgence as theological concepts and my own denomination repudiates them, but in no sense could one buy oneself passage out of Hell as the concept of Purgatory is entirely distinct from Hell. Nor could one by oneself an indulgence at all.

 

[Wgw]

Give one example where one needs tradition....

Well I can cite a very prominent example: the canon of St. Athanasius. Since none of the books in the New Testament enumerate a list of other books, we are entirely dependent on tradition to tell us that Revelations, Hebrews, the Gospel of John and so on belong in the NT, whereas the false Gnostic gospels, the Epistle of Barnabas, the Shepherd of Hermas, the Tripartite Tractate, the Pistis Sophia, et cetera, do not.

To give a poignant rationale for why this is needed, Luther wished to delete Hebrews, James, Jude and Revelations from the NT but was stopped by the popularity these works enjoyed. He was reduced in the case of the Epistle of St. James for example to merely bleating about why he disliked it.

 

[n2thelight]

Do you have any examples of Old Testament traditions?

Also what does the below verses mean to you?

I Corinthians 2:5 "That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God."

I Thessalonians 2:13 "For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe."

 

[Wgw]

Well I agree with that which is why I resepct the God-given traditions of the Orthodox church.

 

[n2thelight]

Almost everything I read of tradition in scriture is not good

Colossians 2:8 "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ:"

 

[Wgw]

The Holy Tradition of the Orthodox Church is not the tradition of men but rather a divine Tradition, which Paul expressly commands us to follow in 2 Thess. 2:15.

 

[Goatee]

Almost everything I read of tradition in scriture is not good

Colossians 2:8 "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ:"

tradition of men!

Catholic church follows the 'Tradition' given to it via the Holy Spirit through the Apostles! Different thing altogether from your quote!!

 

[n2thelight]

tradition of men!

Catholic church follows the 'Tradition' given to it via the Holy Spirit through the Apostles! Different thing altogether from your quote!!

So what do I do with the below?

Hebrews 1:1 "God, Who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,"

Hebrews 1:2 "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, Whom He hath appointed Heir of all things, by Whom also He made the worlds;"

Also what traditions did the Holy Spirit give to the Catholic Church?

And is that not a form of adding to His Word,which we are warned not to do?

 

[Wgw]

No more than it was for the Evangelists to actually compose the Gospel narratives, for example.

What I suggest you do is study the writings of the early Church Fathers and acquire a certsin degree of theological erudition; their words are replete with scripture references.

The kind of belligerent anti-intellectualism you are relying on is most unpersuasive.

 

[Goatee]

So what do I do with the below?

Hebrews 1:1 "God, Who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,"

Hebrews 1:2 "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, Whom He hath appointed Heir of all things, by Whom also He made the worlds;"

Also what traditions did the Holy Spirit give to the Catholic Church?

And is that not a form of adding to His Word,which we are warned not to do?

The problem i see with your quotes is that you are in all probability trying to interpret things off your own back. Lots of people take quotes from the bible and make them suit their needs / views.

For Catholics we tend to follow what the Church teaches. Thus, taught via the Holy Spirit, via Tradition.