Refuting OSAS in jesus name

[FreeGrace2]

The bible is the only place ware you'll see if you sin you will go to hell yes

You said this before and I asked for specific verses. Yet, there aren't any.

<Your question.
I requested verses that support your view, and there still aren't any? Your statements are only opinions unless there are verses that SAY what is claimed.

<My Answer
Btw surely die means go to hell

Surely it doesn't. And I fully explained how everyone is already born spiritually dead. And all are automatically headed for hell, unless they believe in Christ.

When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand Ezekiel&#8236; [bless and do not curse]3&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]18&#8236; KJV

This is about God's discipline, involving physical death. As I already explained. And gave verses for. Which you have ignored.

<Do you think it didn't at all mean go to hell? Surely die is used a lot in the bible. does it just mean if I sin I will die?

Sometimes it refers to spiritual death, but sometimes it refers to being out of fellowship with the Lord (1 John 1), or temporal death, and sometimes it refers to physical death, and in the case of Abraham, it refers to impotence, or sexual death. One needs to know context to understand how the word is used.

<Jesus didn't die for you to go on sinning in fact he said stop sinning and if you drink his water you will thirst no more!

Do you think not being thirsty refers to not sinning?? Why would you think that?

"The girl at the well story " Be perfect he said! As your father in heaven is" Did he not mean this?!

He didn't say that to the woman at the well.

Grace isn't a word jesus used at all !! Ever !!

Is that the reason for ignoring the word in your estimation?

KJV 160 times. NASB 121 times. NIV 122 times. I suggest that we embrace the word grace, for it is BY GRACE that we are saved.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So then why do OSAS still live in sin that's contrary to a promise from Jesus.

Every believer sins, so your question is bogus.

It seems the non-OSAS crowd just wants to use "loss of salvation" to keep people from sinning. Yet, there aren't any verses that teach such a thing.

<Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life
John&#8236; [bless and do not curse]4&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]13-14&#8236;

This response doesn't address my comment. There is nothing in John 4 to support the opinion of loss of salvation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Just as a reminder the first " question was you wanted versus to support the many many sin leads to hell versus you feel are not in the bible!
So the one I used is just a verse staying sin leads to hell

What verse was that? I'm still waiting for verses that actually say that one can lose salvation, and the criteria for what will cause one to lose their salvation.

 

[lori milne]

What verse was that? I'm still waiting for verses that actually say that one can lose salvation, and the criteria for what will cause one to lose their salvation.

You can't loose something you don't have
Salvation is a promise you have to fulfill
Being righteous through TRUE faith!!
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him
Hebrews&#8236; [bless and do not curse]5&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]9&#8236; KJV

With out accountability you will never be righteous hence you have no salvation!

Now show me any versus that states salvation is obtained be simply asking jesus to be your lord and savor and or that you can't loose it?

 

[lori milne]

What verse was that? I'm still waiting for verses that actually say that one can lose salvation, and the criteria for what will cause one to lose their salvation.

I can show you a lot of versus that show how salvation is attained and they are not with living in justified sins that are some how Covered by grace.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans&#8236; [bless and do not curse]10&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]10&#8236; KJV

To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins
Luke&#8236; [bless and do not curse]1&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]77&#8236; KJV

 

[Brother Chris]

What verse was that? I'm still waiting for verses that actually say that one can lose salvation, and the criteria for what will cause one to lose their salvation.

There are no verses that talk about losing salvation, because it isn't in the bible. Lori thinks that a born again Christian can keep on sinning, and still be in danger of hell. He has a misinterpretation of the scriptures, and that's what happens when you don't study the word carefully with proper commentary. Just like God appointed men in the OT and NT to preach and explain the word of God to people, God has appointed godly men to do the same in our age. Read John Macarthur's commentary on the NT.

 

[lori milne]

There are no verses that talk about losing salvation, because it isn't in the bible. Lori thinks that a born again Christian can keep on sinning, and still be in danger of hell. He has a misinterpretation of the scriptures, and that's what happens when you don't study the word carefully with proper commentary. Just like God appointed men in the OT and NT to preach and explain the word of God to people, God has appointed godly men to do the same in our age. Read John Macarthur's commentary on the NT.

Show me a verse that speaks of this salvation that gives you such a promise living under grace/ justifies sin
Please feel free
I do read a lot actually but I'm ABSOLUTELY not being lead by a Calvinism theology that believes in predestination!!
I believe In the direct and clear words of GOD

 

[FreeGrace2]

You can't loose something you don't have
Salvation is a promise you have to fulfill

So, man fulfills his own salvation? How interesting. Which verse teaches this new idea that I've never heard before. Never mind that I've read through the NT at least 6-8 times per year since 2002.

Being righteous through TRUE faith!!

Is this what is meant by "fulfilling one's own salvation"?

With out accountability you will never be righteous hence you have no salvation!

Every one is accountable (Rom 14:12), though not every one is saved (Rev 20:15).

Now show me any versus that states salvation is obtained be simply asking jesus to be your lord and savor and or that you can't loose it?

lol. I've been asking for verses that teach that salvation can be lost and instead of any actual verses, now I'm being asked to provide verses that support my view. I've already done that, in spades, though they have been ignored, pretty much. I wonder why?

Again, eternal life is a gift of God, per Rom 6:23. Rom 11:29 says that God's gifts are irrevocable. Therefore, salvation, or eternal life, cannot be revoked.

That's why one can't lose it. And your view treats salvation as if it's a coin or some object. It isn't. It's a regeneration, becoming a new creation, per 2 Cor 5:17. You can't lose your regeneration, your new creation.

Now, I've been asking for verses that teach that salvation can be lost, yet you've not provided any. Where are they, if they exist?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I can show you a lot of versus that show how salvation is attained and they are not with living in justified sins that are some how Covered by grace.

If you can show me, why haven't you yet? I've been asking. Please don't make a claim that you cannot fulfill. If there are any verses that teach that salvation can be lost, where are they?

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans&#8236; [bless and do not curse]10&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]10&#8236; KJV

OK, we are saved by faith. Sure. That isn't in dispute.

To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins
Luke&#8236; [bless and do not curse]1&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]77&#8236; KJV

<sigh> Another verse without any explanation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

There are no verses that talk about losing salvation, because it isn't in the bible. Lori thinks that a born again Christian can keep on sinning, and still be in danger of hell. He has a misinterpretation of the scriptures, and that's what happens when you don't study the word carefully with proper commentary. Just like God appointed men in the OT and NT to preach and explain the word of God to people, God has appointed godly men to do the same in our age. Read John Macarthur's commentary on the NT.

Yes, I know well what her view is, which is why I keep asking for verses that support her view. Which I know don't exist. Maybe that point will finally get through to those who believe such an idea.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Show me a verse that speaks of this salvation that gives you such a promise living under grace/ justifies sin
Please feel free

This is a bogus request. There is no salvatioin that promises living under "justified sin". btw, it appears that's how you view "grace". How sad. We are saved by grace, according to Eph 2:8. I have no idea why you're treating it like a dirty word.

But, then, I suppose those who are led by legalism would consider grace to be a dirty word.

I do read a lot actually but I'm ABSOLUTELY not being lead by a Calvinism theology that believes in predestination!!

Well, at least we agree on something! I'm neither Calvinist nor Arminian.

I believe In the direct and clear words of GOD

Then please give them proper acknowledgement. God's gift of eternal life, which is salvation, is irrevocable.

Do you believe that? These are clear and direct words from God.

 

[Brother Chris]

Show me a verse that speaks of this salvation that gives you such a promise living under grace/ justifies sin
Please feel free
I do read a lot actually but I'm ABSOLUTELY not being lead by a Calvinism theology that believes in predestination!!
I believe In the direct and clear words of GOD

Again, you don't know what true conversion is. Someone who has been justified by God's grace, no longer continues to practice sin. Didn't read in Romans 6, that sin will no longer have dominion over you??? Even though he is now under grace, and not under the law, he will not continue to live in sin. You need to understand that. And predestination isn't a "Calvinistic" theology. It is true and biblical. Calvin didn't invent it, he discovered it by the proper interpretation of scriptures. What do you with a verse like this?

and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. - Romans 8:30

 

[lori milne]

If you can show me, why haven't you yet? I've been asking. Please don't make a claim that you cannot fulfill. If there are any verses that teach that salvation can be lost, where are they? OK, we are saved by faith. Sure. That isn't in dispute. <sigh> Another verse without any explanation.

You can't loose it if your already in heaven
Your idea of the word salvation is misconscrewed No matter how many times you read the NT


I've given you two versus in how to obtain salvation which is only a RIGHTEOUS man through FAITH it's called going to heaven

Salvation def KJV

3. Deliverance from enemies; victory. Ex. 14.

4. Remission of sins, or saving graces. Luke 19.

5. The author of man's salvation. Ps. 27.

6. A term of praise or benediction. Rev. 19.


Godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation. 2Cor. 7.

KJV Dictionary Definition: salvation

salvation

SALVA'TION, n. L. salvo, to save.

1. The act of saving; preservation from destruction, danger or great calamity.

Any other def is based off of THEOLOGY

Theory of the biblical meaning which of you CAN READ should be made very clear!!



It never says it covers unrepented sin

Nor saves you a place in heaven wile you live in "justified sin"

 

[lori milne]

If you can show me, why haven't you yet? I've been asking. Please don't make a claim that you cannot fulfill. If there are any verses that teach that salvation can be lost, where are they? OK, we are saved by faith. Sure. That isn't in dispute. <sigh> Another verse without any explanation.

< I can show you a lot of versus that show how salvation is attained and they are not with living in justified sins that are some how Covered by grace.

<If you can show me, why haven't you yet? I've been asking. Please don't make a claim that you cannot fulfill. If there are any verses that teach that salvation can be lost, where are they?

< For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans&#8236; [bless and do not curse]10&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]10&#8236; KJV

<OK, we are saved by faith. Sure. That isn't in dispute.
<FaiTh produces righteousness and the defined word righteous doesn't mean living in justified sin! That's a contradiction to the word righteous! Righteousness Def kjv righteousness RIGHTEOUSNESS, n. ri'chusness. 1. Purity of heart and rectitude of life; conformity of heart and life to the divine law. Righteousness, as used in Scripture and theology, in which it is chiefly used, is nearly equivalent to holiness, comprehending holy principles and affections of heart, and conformity of life to the divine law. It includes all we call justice, honesty and virtue, with holy affections; in short, it is true religion. 2. Applied to God, the perfection or holiness of his nature; exact rectitude; faithfulness. 3. The active and passive obedience of Christ, by which the law of God is fulfilled. Daniel 9. 4. Justice; equity between man and man. Luke 1. 5. The cause of our justification.
To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins Luke&#8236; [bless and do not curse]1&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]77&#8236; KJV

And I gave you versus that explains you can't loose something that is only attained when your raised up.
Your question is loaded I don't think intentionally by you but learned in church.
I learned it as well but it fallows a OSAS theology that would make the bible contradict itself if it were true!

The theory is flawed brother

I prey everyday to keep my mind open to what ever I read so please do like wise
For two seconds

Salvation takes away righteousness or accountability of ones requirement to obtain righteousness!
live in the Faith with fear and trembling
Ware is that when your predestine to go to heaven REGARDLESS of what you or anyone does ?
1. It doesn't say that anywhere
2. If it did their would be a major contradiction in the word.
3. Salvation OSAS takes away the law
Gal 5:18 would contradict that and jesus direct words about the law!
And again against Romans 6:23
4. No accountability takes away the fear of God?
This is what keeps you running he race with endurance.

OSAS doesn't mix well with these Verse.
Their at no time is a blending of sin and righteousness here!
It's either or not luke warm
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Romans&#8236; [bless and do not curse]6&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]16&#8236; KJV

 

[lori milne]

Again, you don't know what true conversion is. Someone who has been justified by God's grace, no longer continues to practice sin. Didn't read in Romans 6, that sin will no longer have dominion over you??? Even though he is now under grace, and not under the law, he will not continue to live in sin. You need to understand that. And predestination isn't a "Calvinistic" theology. It is true and biblical. Calvin didn't invent it, he discovered it by the proper interpretation of scriptures. What do you with a verse like this? and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. - Romans 8:30

Calvinism is a theology and yes his theory is not correct it doesn't state anything about predestination in the bible other then we are all " ALL MEN " are predestined?'n
otherwise the OSAS life style contradicts the teachings of Christ COMPLETELY!

I'm sure that's not the case. the balance of what you read and the rest of the bible needs to be connected together.
You can't read scripture like Romans 9:13-20
And completely dismiss the meaning because of an assumed theology
Like how do you explain. Jesus saying sin no more
Or be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect or 1 Timothy 6:1-6 scripture SO CLEARLY states your wrong but you hold to your multiple meaning versus derivatives only to NON believing Jews.!!??
Balanced it out OSAS it doesn't balance out with the rest of the BIBLE again no contradictions are found in the word!

 

[lori milne]

Calvinism is a theology and yes his theory is not correct it doesn't state anything about predestination in the bible other then we are all " ALL MEN " are predestined?'n otherwise the OSAS life style contradicts the teachings of Christ COMPLETELY! I'm sure that's not the case. the balance of what you read and the rest of the bible needs to be connected together. You can't read scripture like Romans 9:13-20 And completely dismiss the meaning because of an assumed theology Like how do you explain. Jesus saying sin no more Or be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect or 1 Timothy 6:1-6 scripture SO CLEARLY states your wrong but you hold to your multiple meaning versus derivatives only to NON believing Jews.!!?? Balanced it out OSAS it doesn't balance out with the rest of the BIBLE again no contradictions are found in the word!

Again unbalanced even in your multiple meaning Verse you gave me Romans 8:30


There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. Romans&#8236; [bless and do not curse]8&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]1-7&#8236; KJV

 

[lori milne]

This is a bogus request. There is no salvatioin that promises living under "justified sin". btw, it appears that's how you view "grace". How sad. We are saved by grace, according to Eph 2:8. I have no idea why you're treating it like a dirty word. But, then, I suppose those who are led by legalism would consider grace to be a dirty word. Well, at least we agree on something! I'm neither Calvinist nor Arminian. Then please give them proper acknowledgement. God's gift of eternal life, which is salvation, is irrevocable. Do you believe that? These are clear and direct words from God.

Originally Posted by lori milne Show me a verse that speaks of this salvation that gives you such a promise living under grace/ justifies sin Please feel free

<This is a bogus request. There is no salvatioin that promises living under "justified sin".
<AGREED!

btw, it appears that's how you view "grace". How sad. We are saved by grace, according to Eph 2:8. I have no idea why you're treating it like a dirty word.



<It's not a dirty word its a word that's been abused and twisted this is even in the word of God as a warning
Jude 3-4 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, """turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, """" and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ Jude&#8236; [bless and do not curse]1&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]3-4&#8236; KJV

< But, then, I suppose those who are led by legalism would consider grace to be a dirty word.

<Legalism if it means to obey the word of GOD then so be it in JESUS NAME!

Grace is FAVORE IN GODS EYES that only a righteous man can obtain through FAITH!

The blood of Jesus covers my past repented sins God was gracious" to give us Jesus's his son And make him the atonement for those sins

This is all Sunday school information I'm giving you btw super simple stuff.


I do read a lot actually but I'm ABSOLUTELY not being lead by a Calvinism theology that believes in predestination!! Well, at least we agree on something! I'm neither Calvinist nor Arminian. I believe In the direct and clear words of GOD Then please give them proper acknowledgement. God's gift of eternal life, which is salvation, is irrevocable. Do you believe that? These are clear and direct words from God.

 

[lori milne]

What verse was that? I'm still waiting for verses that actually say that one can lose salvation, and the criteria for what will cause one to lose their salvation.

I responded to every thing you've said I gave versus over and over just they arnt what you want because it would be a contradiction!
You can't prove your can't loose salvation verse just the same cuz AGAIN it's not what you've made it into!


Salvation is clearly used CORRECTLY IN context of being obtained not given

For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light. Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof
Romans&#8236; [bless and do not curse]13&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]9-14&#8236; KJV

READ THE EXAMPLES see if you can find the one that doesn't belong?

salvation is near
You are saved
I've seen salvation
I wait for salvation
We shall see the salvation ofGod
I will place salvation inZion
God is my salvation
Even the salvation of your soul
Confession is made unto righteousness

Look closely which one DOESNT BELONG


The one you had to have thought was the doesn't belong here was actually in the bible
But means EXACTLY what he doesn't want you to do with it.

By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain
1 Corinthians&#8236; [bless and do not curse]15&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]2&#8236; KJV

 

[lori milne]

I responded to every thing you've said I gave versus over and over just they arnt what you want because it would be a contradiction! You can't prove your can't loose salvation verse just the same cuz AGAIN it's not what you've made it into! Salvation is clearly used CORRECTLY IN context of being obtained not given For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light. Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof Romans&#8236; [bless and do not curse]13&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]9-14&#8236; KJV READ THE EXAMPLES see if you can find the one that doesn't belong? salvation is near You are saved I've seen salvation I wait for salvation We shall see the salvation ofGod I will place salvation inZion God is my salvation Even the salvation of your soul Confession is made unto righteousness Look closely which one DOESNT BELONG The one you had to have thought was the doesn't belong here was actually in the bible But means EXACTLY what he doesn't want you to do with it. By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain 1 Corinthians&#8236; [bless and do not curse]15&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]2&#8236; KJV

Salvation isn't assumed it's the reward for holding fast to his commandments obeying being faithful and righteous

 

[FreeGrace2]

You can't loose it if your already in heaven

Of course not. But this isn't the discussion, is it?

Your idea of the word salvation is misconscrewed No matter how many times you read the NT

Please explain what you mean instead of just lobbing a charge. How do you know that my understanding of salvatyion is "misconscrewed". lol

If it is, please explain how it is and how your idea isn't.

I've given you two versus in how to obtain salvation which is only a RIGHTEOUS man through FAITH it's called going to heaven

Are you aware of HOW one is declared righteous? It's through faith.

Salvation def KJV

3. Deliverance from enemies; victory. Ex. 14.

4. Remission of sins, or saving graces. Luke 19.

5. The author of man's salvation. Ps. 27.

6. A term of praise or benediction. Rev. 19.

Godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation. 2Cor. 7.

KJV Dictionary Definition: salvation

salvation

SALVA'TION, n. L. salvo, to save.

1. The act of saving; preservation from destruction, danger or great calamity.

Any other def is based off of THEOLOGY

That's nice. What does this have to do with the discussion of loss of salvation, though?

Theory of the biblical meaning which of you CAN READ should be made very clear!!

I'm sorry, but this sentence isn't very clear.

Nor saves you a place in heaven wile you live in "justified sin"

Where does this silly idea of "justified sin" come from? Certainly not the Bible. Or is this just a made up phrase that you like to use from time to time?