I said this:
"Sorry, but Esau's birthright has nothing to do with our salvation. Wrong analogy. The free gift of God is eternal life (Rom 6:23) which is also irrevocable (Rom 11:29). This is irrefutable and undeniable."
I did not make up that analogy but the Hebrew writer used it to explain what for you?
I don't understand your statement, given what I said, that you responded to.
The Hebrew writer is addressing Christians and talks about one falls short or has a bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many, suggesting problems for Christians that can cause them to become defiled.
How does this relate to eternal security?
I never suggested anything contrary to the free gift of God is eternal life (Ro. 6:23), but since it is truly a gift that changes ownership to me, I can give it up since I own it.
There are zero verses to support the idea that salvation is returnable. None.
The problem with such as view is that what the Bible calls salvation has a lot of things involved, NONE of which are returnable. For example, we become a child of God. Jn 1:12, Gal 3:26.
We are justified. Rom 5:1
We are forgiven. Acts 10:43
Jesus used 3 tenses for eternal life:
present tense - HAS eternal life
past tense - HAS crossed over from death to life
future tense - will NOT come into condemnation
Let us look at the context of Ro. 11: 29:
28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for Gods gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of Gods mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
The elect in this passage is referring to blood descendants (Jews) of the patriarchs which were gifted to be Gods chosen people here on earth at least until Christianity came into its fullness (might be up to the destruction of the temple 70 AD). In the context (especially of Ro. 9-11) the elect in Ro. 11:29 is not referring to those given salvation, but to the Jews by blood. From what we know: all Jews after Pauls letter did not accept Gods mercy (salvation), so this election could not mean unto salvation.
The only description anywhere in Romans for a "gift" (charisma) is regarding spiritual gifts in 1:11, eternal life in 5:15,16 and 6:23, before he wrote 11:29.
And, your passage doesn't even mention "gift" until v.29. And it wasn't about election in that passage anyway. And election is never described as a gift.
I said this:
"I do not see anything here that speaks of either selling or giving away your salvation. We are held in God's hand. Jn 10:28-29."
if we do not give up is the idea of giving up. The amount we sow is irrelevant, but we do not want to quit being a servant (sower), walk away give-up. If we give-up (walk away) we will not inherit eternal life.
There is nothing in Jn 10:28-29 about not inheriting eternal life if one walks away. And there are no verses anywhere that teach this.
Read what I said above about gift and irrevocable.
It was irrelevant to the facts. Paul was clear about what he meant by "gifts" (charisma). Eternal life is a gift and gifts are irrevocable.
The source" is Gal. 6: 8-10.
The concept of "reaping" involves abundance. The same principle is found in Jn 10:10, where Jesus said He came that the sheep would have life and have it more abundantly. iow, there is eternal life, and there is abundant eternal life. Which deals with eternal rewards beyond just being in heaven.
Here is the Greek word for "reap" used both positively and negatively:
theridō
1) to reap, harvest
2) proverbial expression for sowing and reaping
3) cut off, destroy
3a) as crops are cut down with a sickle
Does the farmer that sows the seed bring forth the unbelievable huge harvest or does God with: rain, sun, genetics, life, fertile ground. Sowing the seed is the easy fun part.
Sure, God brings forth the harvest. What does this have to do with the discussion, though?
We do not sell it back to God, but sell (or give it) to satan.
Please provide Scriptural support for this statement.
Among the free gifts from God is our freedom from satan, but we can return to be a slave of satan.
Which doesn't have anything to do with loss of salvation. Or there'd be some verses that teach such.
You are right to say we are not saved by surrendering, since God does the saving. Surrendering only allows God to shower us with gifts (including salvation). Not surrendering (wimping out) will not allow God to show us with gifts, since God does not force us to accept His charity as charity.
Once we believe, and are saved, lack of surrender at any point in our lives will result in loss of reward, as noted by 1 Cor 3:15. Not loss of salvation.
If any mans work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
It is obvious that it isn't loss of salvation here, but loss of something else, based on our works, or deeds.
2 Jn 8 - Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward.
That is what all the warning passages are warning about; loss of eternal rewards.
