T
ToBeBlessed
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Really?
Tell me more about myself so both of us will know.
What else do you know about me? Hint: don't make things up.
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John Calvin's theory on grace is your definition.
It isnt proven in the bible and can't be because it contradicts jesus teachings.
It will remain a theory forever.
And I know that theory I studied it for many years
It's what keeps you sinning because you feel your forgiven through grace and not of your own continued repentance.
ToBeBlessed said:Really? Tell me more about myself so both of us will know.What else do you know about me? Hint: don't make things up.
It's ware the grace movement came from
I'm not making it up
This is already been proven
ToBeBlessed said:No. You were telling me who I am. That's what you said. I just want to hear more about myself. Tell me more about me.
Saved by the blood of Jesus is what cleanse your sins!
Grace can't clean sins away!
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
John‬ [bless and do not curse]6‬:[bless and do not curse]53‬ KJV
Tell me ware jesus speaks of grace!!??
St_Worm2 said:Hi Lori, maybe it would help to approach this from a different perspective. What does a non-Christian need to get from where they are now to God ..Actually, it's two things, 1) FORGIVENESS 2) RECONCILIATION First and foremost, we need to be "forgiven" by God, right? That's the goal!! So the next question then becomes, how can that goal be achieved, IOW, how/why (or on what basis) will God choose to forgive us? This is where the "blood of Christ" comes in. The Bible tells us that we are "justified by His blood" (Romans 5:9) and that "the blood of Jesus .. cleanses us from all sin" (1 John 1:7). Even the OT says similar things like "though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be white as snow" (Isaiah 1:18b). The "blood of Christ" is the 'means to an end'. It's shorthand for or representative of that which Christ did for us (His perfect life and, in particular, His death on the Cross). Why is this important? It's important because as Hebrews tells us, "w/o the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins" (Hebrews 9:22). In a way similar to the blood shed for the forgiveness of sin in the OT (by animal sacrifices), the Lord Himself becomes our "spotless" Lamb and it is by His sacrifice, by His "blood", that we are able to be saved. Blood needed to be shed to pay for our sins, a death needed to occur. God accepts the sacrifice of His Son as the propitiation or payment for our sins.
We are FORGIVEN by God on that basis. And this is how we are "saved by GRACE". God forgives us based upon the sacrifice of His Son, on the basis of His shed blood, not ours. We don't "deserve" to be forgiven, but God chooses to save us anyway, on the basis of the merits of ANOTHER. In the end, what truly "saves" us is God's CHOICE to do so, and He makes that choice graciously, based upon UN-merited favor .. which is actually code for unmerited by 'us' ..I hoped that helped. If not, let me know and I'll try again. Yours and His, David
ok I see your meaningFreeGrace2 said:This verse isn't about salvation, but, rather about fellowship. Just as a child and parent can have fellowship or not. The relationship still exists, but fellowship is a different thing. And 1 Jn 1 is about fellowship, not about getting saved. So I've still not seen any verses that support your claim that one is saved by the blood of Jesus. Believers ARE cleansed by the blood of Jesus. That is not about salvation. That is about forgiveness, as 1 Jn 1:9 makes very clear. Believers will continue to sin, as John made clear in the first chapter. 1:8,10 indicates so. Confession of sin is the cleansing of our on-going sins.
I notice that there was zero interaction with my post, nor any answer provided to my question. Is there no interest in interacting with others, or only making your own points?Fall away /go back to perdition / return to his vomit like a dog/ brethren that have erred from the faith / after err that come back and receive a harsher punishment for erreing the second time vs the first.
This is all clearly in the bible After receiving the knowledge and still sinning willfully there is no sacrifice for that sin!
One must understand what "falling away" means. It does not mean falling away from salvation. Because the Bible states that the gift of eternal life is irrevocable.There are weighed out 1000 more that speak of falling away then the op
From what Jesus said, no one is ABLE to snatch another out of God's hand, but your view is that a person is strong enough to jump out of His hand? How does that make any sense? And what verse teaches that we have the ABILITY to do that? Without evidence from Scripture, that is just another opinion.You can jump out of his hand
This has been said before and I asked to explain HOW that would be, because I reject the idea that man doesn't have free will.If your correct it would employ we have NO FREE WILL
Once again I notice that my post was ignored. Without two way interaction, there can be NO communication or discussion. It seems there is no interest on your part in having an actual discussion. Is that true? If so, I'm done trying.How about only your past sins are COVARD being some what if a help
Once again you've completely ignored my post!Hope I put the versus in the correct spots
Glad to hear!ok I see your meaning
I'm glad. I think.I agree the. I think lol
No, 1 Jn 1:9 says that if we confess our sins, God is just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us of all our unrighteousness.If your saying the blood is what washes our sins ?
FreeGrace2 said:Glad to hear! I'm glad. I think. No, 1 Jn 1:9 says that if we confess our sins, God is just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us of all our unrighteousness. btw, with all this mention of the "blood of Jesus": do you think there is something mystical or powerful in His literal blood, or do you understand that the phrase "blood of Jesus" is a figurative phrase that refers to His death on a cross for our sins? An answer to this question will help in further discussion. Thanks.
Lori, it seems that you are somewhat confused about the very fundamentals of our salvation. Salvation is by grace through faith in Christ and His finished work on the cross, which includes the shedding of His blood for our redemption. So faith, grace, and blood are all tied together. And works of righteousness follow.If Faith is symbolic for his blood And we know we are saved by his blood not grace! Grace comes after righteousness and then produces fruit or makes you desire to do good / obey Gods law Romans 3:25-4:25.
Job8 said:Lori, it seems that you are somewhat confused about the very fundamentals of our salvation. Salvation is by grace through faith in Christ and His finished work on the cross, which includes the shedding of His blood for our redemption. So faith, grace, and blood are all tied together. And works of righteousness follow. The heading of this thread makes no sense whatsoever. The eternal security of the believer is solidly based on the finished work of Christ, not on anything else.
Yes! The phrase "blood of Jesus" is symbolic, not literal.His blood symbolizes a lot!
To be clear, we are forgiven of all our sin by faith in Him, per Acts 10:43 and we are given the right to be His children, per Jn 1:12.Washed with the blood of Jesus is the only thing that cleanses our sin.
Can you show me some scripture that shows the structure You used with grace after faith or before righteiocnwss. The order of Grace faith salvation righteousness
I've found Romans 4:1-24 but it seems to be over looked ?
The way it seems To explain
The Jews were confused about grace /gods favor with or without works and Paul explained it using David and Abraham as an example for works vs no works with circumcised and uncircumcised
This is not correct. We are dealing with spiritual realities, and the blood of Jesus is indeed a literal spiritual reality. The blood of Christ is applied to every redeemed soul, and it is also applied to the Throne of Grace so that it becomes the Mercy Seat. Hence we have these Scriptures (Rev 1:5; Heb 9:12):Yes! The phrase "blood of Jesus" is symbolic, not literal.
Job8 said:Lori, Here is what Scripture presents (Tit 3:4-7), and this passage covers everything : 4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. FIRST -- GOD'S GRACE (Love, Mercy, Kindness) But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS EXCLUDED Not by works of righteousness which we have done, MERCY EXCLUSIVELY THE BASIS OF SALVATION according to his mercy he saved us, THE NEW BIRTH COMES FROM BELIEVING (OR FAITH) (See Jn 1:12,13) by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; THE NEW BIRTH COMES WITH JUSTIFICATION That being justified by his grace, THE NEW BIRTH MEANS BEING MADE HEIRS OF GOD we should be made heirs SALVATION COMES WITH THE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE according to the hope of eternal life. RIGHTEOUSNESS IMPUTED TO THE ONE WHO BELIEVES To tie this in with Romans 4, we simply need to look at Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
By your own admission, the phrase is a "spiritual" reality. Not physical. Thanks for your clarification. The phrase refers to His spiritual death on the cross. If His physical death were the issue, then when He said "tetelastai", which means "paid in full" or "it is finished", He would have spoken too early, for He hadn't died physically yet. His statement proves that the death He died was spiritual, and affirmed by His question: "My God, My God, WHY have you foraken Me?" Jesus was separated from His Father while being judged on the cross for the sins of mankind. That is spiritual death. We humans are all born spiritually dead (Eph 2:1). When we believe in Christ, we are born again, and become spiritually alive in Christ.This is not correct. We are dealing with spiritual realities, and the blood of Jesus is indeed a literal spiritual reality.
Is this saying that literal physical blood from about 2000 years ago gave you a bath???? lolIt is Christ's blood which LITERALLY AND SPIRITUALLY washes us from our sins.
What is the context for ch 1? Fellowship, mentioned 4 times in that chapter.But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (1 Jn 1:7).
Job8 said:Lori, Here is what Scripture presents (Tit 3:4-7), and this passage covers everything : 4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. FIRST -- GOD'S GRACE (Love, Mercy, Kindness) But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS EXCLUDED Not by works of righteousness which we have done, MERCY EXCLUSIVELY THE BASIS OF SALVATION according to his mercy he saved us, THE NEW BIRTH COMES FROM BELIEVING (OR FAITH) (See Jn 1:12,13) by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; THE NEW BIRTH COMES WITH JUSTIFICATION That being justified by his grace, THE NEW BIRTH MEANS BEING MADE HEIRS OF GOD we should be made heirs SALVATION COMES WITH THE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE according to the hope of eternal life. RIGHTEOUSNESS IMPUTED TO THE ONE WHO BELIEVES To tie this in with Romans 4, we simply need to look at Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
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