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Is this the post ? I missed this I'm sorry it was over looked.nobdysfool said:Lori, The issue here is one of thinking that you must "do" something in order to receive from God, which when it comes to forgiveness of sins, and leading a God-pleasing life, is adding to the work of Christ, which is wrong. This turns into "rules and regulations of behavior", and leads you to a place of always feeling like you haven't done enough, haven't "done it right", and you wind up in a place of self-condemnation, second-guessing yourself, and telling yourself that you must work harder, do more, spend more time in prayer, spend more time reading the Word (which in and of themselves are not bad, they're good), and working yourself into such a state that you no good to either God or man. I've been there. I've seen it. I've lived it. The key is to know that in Christ, you are already covered, your sins are already dealt with, you are already seated with Christ in the heavenlies, by faith in Him, and His finished work. In Him, you have already passed from death to life. Do a study on what it means to be in Christ. It will change your life! What I'm saying is, rest from your labors, it is already covered, in Christ! When you sin, take it to Him, and clear your conscience before Him. He's already forgiven you, you must forgive yourself! When you repent, you restore the fellowship with Christ that was broken from your side. It was never broken from His side! When you sin, He doesn't leave you, you leave Him, and He is there the moment you turn (repent), and confess. Once you are one of His, He will never leave you nor forsake you. No matter what you do or don't do, He will never leave you. That's His Promise to His Children. You are far too concerned with what you do, and don't do, and you have forgotten that He gives you rest. Something I learned some time back, that when you make your requests known to God in prayer, especially when it is something important, do not bargain with God. Don't tell Him that you will do this or that, or stop doing this or that, because, as He told me, He cannot be bargained with, and He knows that those "bargains" will not be kept. Php 4:6-7 KJV Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. (7) And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. He showed me that when I make my requests known to Him, let go of them. Too often, we ask God to resolve something, or supply something, but we don't let go of it. He showed me that He won't do anything about it as long as I refuse to release it to Him. It's not that He doesn't want to answer my prayers, it's that by my refusing to let go, I am not having faith in Him to answer my prayer. Without faith, no man can receive anything from God.. Jas 1:5-7 KJV If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. (6) But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. (7) For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. That principle applies to the whole life of a Christian. Have faith in God, ask Him what you will, and leave it in His Hands. In so doing, you will be walking by faith, and experience His peace, and you will not be condemned.
Brother Chris said:Lori, based on what you're teaching, people may question your salvation. Was there ever a time in your life when you prayed and asked Jesus to come into your heart?
EmSw said:Wow Lori, the claims others have made against you are not what you want. There is nothing wrong with your inquiries; you ask questions and get very little compassion. Some have even degraded you because you are a woman. My advice is to keep searching for the truth. If your search is genuine, and I believe it is, the Lord will answer. Matthew 7 - 7 Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Some things He has shown me has taken years for the answer. But, when the door is opened to you, you will definitely know you may enter.
nobdysfool said:Lori, The issue here is one of thinking that you must "do" something in order to receive from God, which when it comes to forgiveness of sins, and leading a God-pleasing life, is adding to the work of Christ, which is wrong. This turns into "rules and regulations of behavior", and leads you to a place of always feeling like you haven't done enough, haven't "done it right", and you wind up in a place of self-condemnation, second-guessing yourself, and telling yourself that you must work harder, do more, spend more time in prayer, spend more time reading the Word (which in and of themselves are not bad, they're good), and working yourself into such a state that you no good to either God or man. I've been there. I've seen it. I've lived it. The key is to know that in Christ, you are already covered, your sins are already dealt with, you are already seated with Christ in the heavenlies, by faith in Him, and His finished work. In Him, you have already passed from death to life. Do a study on what it means to be in Christ. It will change your life! What I'm saying is, rest from your labors, it is already covered, in Christ! When you sin, take it to Him, and clear your conscience before Him. He's already forgiven you, you must forgive yourself! When you repent, you restore the fellowship with Christ that was broken from your side. It was never broken from His side! When you sin, He doesn't leave you, you leave Him, and He is there the moment you turn (repent), and confess. Once you are one of His, He will never leave you nor forsake you. No matter what you do or don't do, He will never leave you. That's His Promise to His Children. You are far too concerned with what you do, and don't do, and you have forgotten that He gives you rest. Something I learned some time back, that when you make your requests known to God in prayer, especially when it is something important, do not bargain with God. Don't tell Him that you will do this or that, or stop doing this or that, because, as He told me, He cannot be bargained with, and He knows that those "bargains" will not be kept. Php 4:6-7 KJV Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. (7) And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. He showed me that when I make my requests known to Him, let go of them. Too often, we ask God to resolve something, or supply something, but we don't let go of it. He showed me that He won't do anything about it as long as I refuse to release it to Him. It's not that He doesn't want to answer my prayers, it's that by my refusing to let go, I am not having faith in Him to answer my prayer. Without faith, no man can receive anything from God.. Jas 1:5-7 KJV If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. (6) But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. (7) For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. That principle applies to the whole life of a Christian. Have faith in God, ask Him what you will, and leave it in His Hands. In so doing, you will be walking by faith, and experience His peace, and you will not be condemned.
I'm not teaching in raising the topic for a balanced understandinglori milne said:Yes when I was 8 and since I've always spoked to him quietly and as s friend
I'm happy to repeat myself, though I've already explained this.
YES, there are dire consequences when any of God's children sin. Heb 12:5 speaks of being "scourged", which literally means to "skin alive with a whip". Of course the writer is speaking figuratively, but the meaning is clear; God knows how to deliver pain to His disobedient children.
What happened to the incestuous man in 1 Cor 5? Paul turned him over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh (physical death in a painful way) so that his spirit would be saved. 1 Cor 5:5 is another passage proving OSAS.
Btw this That you've said was really awesome
I truly did need this in the balance
Amen
Of course no human being is 100% faithful. We all have sin natures, as Paul taught. The fact that Scriptures confirm that God is faithful speaks to the issue of eternal security. He has PROMISED to keep us. But apparently your view doesn't allow for believing His promise.All that the verse confirm is God is faithful
But are we is the question not God
I have no idea what your point is. Being worried about erring doesn't contradict anything. And Paul NEVER worred about falling away. What verse did that come from? And falling away isn't about losing salvation, but our faithfulness.According to scripture it is clearly contradictive even Paul him self worried about falling away or erring
That's just one aspect of the many contradictions
Nothing here about loss of salvation.But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. ([bless and do not curse]1 Corinthians‬ [bless and do not curse]9‬:[bless and do not curse]27‬ KJV)
Yes. I agree.2 Corinthians 2: 5-8 is thought to refer to the man of I Cor 5, and Paul is urging the Corinthian church to restore him to fellowship as the man had suffered enough under his shunning.
And, unfortunately, I agree here too.We now return to the circular arguments and dueling Bible verses.
FreeGrace2 said:Of course no human being is 100% faithful. We all have sin natures, as Paul taught. The fact that Scriptures confirm that God is faithful speaks to the issue of eternal security. He has PROMISED to keep us. But apparently your view doesn't allow for believing His promise. I have no idea what your point is. Being worried about erring doesn't contradict anything. And Paul NEVER worred about falling away. What verse did that come from? And falling away isn't about losing salvation, but our faithfulness. Again and again, your view seems to be that we are saved by our own faithfulness. Which isn't biblical. Nothing here about loss of salvation. The word for "castaway" is adokimos and means "not approved". Why would one think being approved or disapproved has anything to do with salvation? It's about spiritual growth to maturity, being Christ-like. All believers will either be approved at the Bema or disapproved. Which is about being rewarded or not. 2 Cor 5:10 - For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. This isn't about a warning about loss of salvation, but being recompensed for one's deeds. If they are good, one will be rewarded, and if one's deeds are bad, one will lose out on significant blessings and reward.
I agree.Lori, we do not like the term OSAS. It sounds cheap and it gets thrown around easily so it that it means very little. The truth is, the majority of the people in this country, about 65% (in the U.S.) call themselves Christians. But if we really took seriously what the bible says about a true Christian, we would find that less than 15% of those people are even converted. So "OSAS" only applies to that 15%, the rest are simply not saved at all, and the warnings of Jesus and in the epistles applies to them.
I'm not going to argue with this, because it doesn't really matter what the facts are in your view. But Strong's lexicon DOES SAY it means "disapproved".Greek word adokimos:
The KJV translates Strongs G96 in the following manner:reprobate (6x), castaway (1x), rejected (1x).
The word is used in conjunction with loss of something in rejection he is rejected or because he is rejecting it / reprobate / or cast away.
It's Not used as not approved according to the lexicon / blue letter bible / Greek translation.
There is no "assumption" about salvation. Jesus Himself tells us that those who believe in Him HAVE (present tense) eternal life. Jn 5:24.In regards to assuming salvation is already yours
Which has nothing to do with loss of salvation.We have to not take advantage of the hours cause the master could come at any time:
These verses and parables are clear about staying alert and sober.
A reference to the eternal deliverance (salvation) when we die and enter eternity.Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
The key here is "kept IN heaven for you". Peter was describing a reward, which he called "an inheritance" which is IN heaven.1peter 1:4-16
To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
No it doesn't.Speaks of obedience to go to heaven
No mention here of feeling bad.Hebrews 5:8-9
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him
sin must be repented of /feel bad for sinning and then stop .
The key is "believeth".Romans 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation
I have no idea what this sentence means.I want more form you so o can weigh this out better as balanced understanding as i see all these versus as contradictions now and not understandings
Does this mean that the Bible is contrary to itself? No. It means that your view about salvation doesn't make sense. What is seen as contrary is simply your misunderstanding of something. Which has nothing to do with loss of salvation. A reference to the eternal deliverance (salvation) when we die and enter eternity. The key here is "kept IN heaven for you". Peter was describing a reward, which he called "an inheritance" which is IN heaven. No it doesn't. No mention here of feeling bad. The key is "believeth". I have no idea what this sentence means. I have provided passages from 4 different books in the NT which speak of eternal security, and you've still not dealt with any of them. Instead, you've just found more verses to quote, yet none of them speak of loss of salvation. At this point, it seems rather clear to me that you're really not interested in what the Bible says, only what you think some passages must mean. If salvation could be lost, then Rom 11:29 is a LIE. Is that your view? Either the loss of salvation is true, or eternal life is irrevocable, meaning that salvation cannot be lost. So, either your view is right and the Bible is wrong re: Rom 11:29, or the Bible is right and your view of loss of salvation is wrong. I will side with the Bible every time. The verses have been given, so there's no excuse to not know what the Bible says about the guarantee of salvation.[/QUOTE]FreeGrace2 said:I'm not going to argue with this, because it doesn't really matter what the facts are in your view. But Strong's lexicon DOES SAY it means "disapproved". There is no "assumption" about salvation. Jesus Himself tells us that those who believe in Him HAVE (present tense) eternal life. Jn 5:24. [QJUOTE]It's clear to me salvation being near and or here when rapture comes is what I see as contrary
Does this mean that the Bible is contrary to itself? No. It means that your view about salvation doesn't make sense. What is seen as contrary is simply your misunderstanding of something. Which has nothing to do with loss of salvation. A reference to the eternal deliverance (salvation) when we die and enter eternity. The key here is "kept IN heaven for you". Peter was describing a reward, which he called "an inheritance" which is IN heaven. No it doesn't. No mention here of feeling bad. The key is "believeth". I have no idea what this sentence means. I have provided passages from 4 different books in the NT which speak of eternal security, and you've still not dealt with any of them. Instead, you've just found more verses to quote, yet none of them speak of loss of salvation. At this point, it seems rather clear to me that you're really not interested in what the Bible says, only what you think some passages must mean. If salvation could be lost, then Rom 11:29 is a LIE. Is that your view? Either the loss of salvation is true, or eternal life is irrevocable, meaning that salvation cannot be lost. So, either your view is right and the Bible is wrong re: Rom 11:29, or the Bible is right and your view of loss of salvation is wrong. I will side with the Bible every time. The verses have been given, so there's no excuse to not know what the Bible says about the guarantee of salvation.
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