Refuting Calvin's TULIP

[PrettyboyAndy]

You are piling assumptions on top of assumptions. You say that Judas did not profess Jesus Christ. It is far more likely that he did so, though possibly with the wrong intent.

As far as looking up this or that, I am not your student. All of the Calvinists on this thread ignored the thoughtful post I made in post #150 about the Book of Life, so that gives me little incentive.

I would have quoted that post but multi-quote is refusing to do that for some reason.

He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it. John 12:6,

Does that seem like someone with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?

A true believer wouldn't do that, his profession was false

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

The Jewish folk (Hebrew Nation) strayed again and again from the Abrahamic Covenant (the Grace of God), resulting in the Law of Moses. The Jews could not possibly comply with it, indicating to them how difficult it would be to be saved by endless rules, regulations, laws, works. They needed to be redeemed. God promised a Messiah (Redeemer) for National Israel (including Judea). That Messiah was Jesus. John the Baptist, a chosen Jew, came proclaiming that Jesus was, in fact, the Holy One promised.

He came to redeem the Jewish people as a people group --- all at once! Jesus chose the 12 to spread the Good News of redemption.

What happened? The leadership of the Jews watched as John the Baptist was slain. They rejected the promised Messiah, and in so doing rejected their restoration as a Nation. There were those among the Jews who accepted Him as the promised Messiah, but not the whole of the nation. Those who accepted Him were redeemed, in accordance with God' promise to send the Messiah, their Redeemer.

Now, as God ordained, Jesus went to the Cross. For 40 days thereafter He spoke to and taught the 12 (minus Judas, plus Matthias). Then He was caught up to Heaven.

Thereafter, He reached out to Saul, who became the Apostle Paul, on the Road to Damascus. Jesus made it clear that based upon HIS sacrifice at the Cross, salvation was now available for EVERYONE who confessed Him, as in Romans 10:8-13.

Thanks for the discussion --- Be abundantly blessed in Him.

Beautiful post brother!

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

Which means every person in the world. Yes, that's what he meant. ALL People.

I don't know why you insist on playing these games. Jesus said all men. You want to say all Jews and Gentiles? No difference.

That doesn't mean every person, it means it's available to all peoples,

 

[Winken]

Well I believe all to mean Jew and Gentile alike.

I have been meaning to look into 1516 # sermon

I just finished reading it. Highly recommended.

 

[Thursday]

That doesn't mean every person, it means it's available to all peoples,

It means what it says. It says clearly that Jesus will draw all men to himself, that God wants all men to be saved, and that all have been made alive in Christ.

It also says a man reaps what it sows. Why are you so tied to this man made dogma?

Can't you see it's tying you in knots?

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

It means what it says. It says clearly that Jesus will draw all men to himself, that God wants all men to be saved, and that all have been made alive in Christ.

It also says a man reaps what it sows. Why are you so tied to this man made dogma?

Can't you see it's tying you in knots?

Brother in Christ,

Even if the call is to everyone, look who can come:

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Furthermore,
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 1 Corinthians 2:14

How does someone get the spirit?

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--

Even your saving faith is a gift, salvation from the Lord.

 

[Dale]

He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it. John 12:6,

Does that seem like someone with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?

A true believer wouldn't do that, his profession was false

Yet Jesus told us not to judge. It's not my position to say that everyone who has committed theft will be condemned on the Day of Judgment.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

Yet Jesus told us not to judge. It's not my position to say that everyone who has committed theft will be condemned on the Day of Judgment.

Please see the below from Bible.org

SON OF PERDITION (JOHN 17:12)
As terrible as “traitor” is, that title pales into insignificance compared to this one. To be the “son of perdition” denotes that Judas is a man identified with eternal destruction, or whose destiny is the Lake of Fire. “Son of perdition” is a predictive designation.

See Judas did not have the Holy Spirit, which is why he will have eternal destruction, clearly evident because the he did not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Otherwise he would not produce the evil fruits he did.

 

[Thursday]

Brother in Christ,

Even if the call is to everyone, look who can come:

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

.

You keep ignoring the major point. This passage tells us that we can't follow God without his grace. On this we agree.

Scripture also tells us that Jesus draws ALL men to himself, that God wants ALL men to be saved, and that God's grace which leads to salvation has appeared to ALL men.

So, now the ball is in our court. We are all drawn to God by his grace, will you respond to his call or not?


Also, God's gift to us is grace.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

You keep ignoring the major point. This passage tells us that we can't follow God without his grace. On this we agree.

Scripture also tells us that Jesus draws ALL men to himself, that God wants ALL men to be saved, and that God's grace which leads to salvation has appeared to ALL men.

So, now the ball is in our court. We are all drawn to God by his grace, will you respond to his call or not?


Also, God's gift to us is grace.

If as you are saying everyone would get this grace, then everyone would be a believer with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, but we know this isn't true.

God's grace is not given to every individual, because the grace given results in saving grace.


But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— , 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Ephesians 2:5-6,8-9


We were dead, God brings us to life, a dead person cannot believe brother, he is dead, God gives us life, we get the Holy Spirit we are saved

 

[Samson Reaper]

Salvation is by Grace through Faith, the Gift of God. The call to salvation originates with Him; it is accepted by the Faith He provides. One is not chosen to be saved; one is saved (accepted, sealed) following the confession of Faith, Romans 10:8-13. The "seal" thereof is found in Romans 8:1 and other relevant scriptures.

I am not sure why you quoted my post. My point, probably badly made, was that Calvinism is a destroyer of assurance.

 

[Samson Reaper]

If as you are saying everyone would get this grace, then everyone would be a believer with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit,

This is a classic Calvinist 'if-the-else' ASSUMPTION.
Calvinism has to introduce the non-biblical 'common grace' to get around its own problem.

God's grace is not given to every individual, because the grace given results in saving grace.

AS previous response.

...doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Ephesians 2:5-6,8-9

Straw man as non-Calvinists - often known as Biblicists - do not say any different.

We were dead, God brings us to life, a dead person cannot believe brother, he is dead, God gives us life, we get the Holy Spirit we are saved

Calvinist nonsense. The Bible says:

God's Righteous Judgment
…14Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the Law, do by nature what the Law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the Law, 15since they show that the work of the Lawis written on their hearts, their consciencesalso bearing witness, and their thoughtseither accusing or defending them. 16This will come to pass on that day when God will judge men’s secrets through Christ Jesus, as proclaimed by my gospel.…


If these guys are dead as Calvinists tell us then how can they have secrets ? let alone a conscience bearing witness ??

Calvinist logic has not advanced much since Calvin stated that the Sun went around the earth - flat earth his mates claimed!

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

This is a classic Calvinist 'if-the-else' ASSUMPTION.
Calvinism has to introduce the non-biblical 'common grace' to get around its own problem.


AS previous response.


Calvinist nonsense. The Bible says:

God's Righteous Judgment
…14Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the Law, do by nature what the Law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the Law, 15since they show that the work of the Lawis written on their hearts, their consciencesalso bearing witness, and their thoughtseither accusing or defending them. 16This will come to pass on that day when God will judge men’s secrets through Christ Jesus, as proclaimed by my gospel.…


If these guys are dead as Calvinists tell us then how can they have secrets ? let alone a conscience bearing witness ??

Calvinist logic has not advanced much since Calvin stated that the Sun went around the earth - flat earth his mates claimed!

Forget Calvin, or Calvinism,

Show me in scripture that every person gets grace? Because we need grace to be saved.

How can you explain this verse, in light of your views?

The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 1 Corinthians 2:14

You cant

 

[Samson Reaper]

Which means every person in the world. Yes, that's what he meant. ALL People.
.

I think it was Sproul who came up with the sound byte "You do know that the word all does not mean all." Maybe he was just a parrot in line.

Calvinist Surgeon says. yes, the word all DOES mean all. Particularly in reference to 1 Tim 2:4. So here we have a mighty Calvinist putting ignorant calvinists in their place - incorrect theology.

Yet, the Bible is so clear as it even states this in a negative way. Jesus is NOT willing that ANY should perish.

May I urge anyone reading this to check the Bible and stick with it.

 

[Samson Reaper]

Forget Calvin, or Calvinism,

Show me in scripture that every person gets grace? Because we need grace to be saved.

I did ask you to spend half an hour reading Spurgeon's sermon 1516. He explains it far better than I can.

How can you explain this verse, in light of your views?

They are NOT my views. Read the whole Bible to get the Whole picture.

The person without the Spirit does not accept the th..

Yep - straw man as non Calvinist do not take issue with scripture.

You cant

OK - Ill do the work for you.
SALVATION BY KNOWING THE TRUTH http://www.spurgeongems.org/vols25-27/chs1516.pdf

 

[Samson Reaper]

"It is quite certain that when we read that God will have all men to be saved it does not mean that He wills it with the force of a decree "

 

[Samson Reaper]

"Terrible as the truth is, yet is it certain from Holy Writ that there are men who, in consequence of their sin and their rejection of the Savior, will go away into everlasting punishment "

Whose sin ? If you claim God predestined this then it is not their sin!

 

[Samson Reaper]

"
What then? Shall we try to put another meaning into the text than that which it fairly bears? I think not. You must, most of you, be acquainted with the general method in which our older Calvinistic friends deal with this text. “All men,” they say—“that is, some men”—as if the Holy Spirit could not have said, “some men” if He had meant some men.
"

 

[Samson Reaper]

"All men,” say they, “that is, some of all sorts of men”—as if the Lord could not have said, “all sorts of men,” if He had meant that.

The Holy Spirit, by the apostle, has written “all men” and unquestionably He means all men.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

I did ask you to spend half an hour reading Spurgeon's sermon 1516. He explains it far better than I can.


They are NOT my views. Read the whole Bible to get the Whole picture.


Yep - straw man as non Calvinist do not take issue with scripture.


OK - Ill do the work for you.
SALVATION BY KNOWING THE TRUTH http://www.spurgeongems.org/vols25-27/chs1516.pdf

Brother, just post me a verse from scripture. that can explain how to be saved if - The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 1 Corinthians 2:14