Refuting Calvin's TULIP

[Samson Reaper]

Of course God desires all men to come to him, but not all will. Because we have a fallen sinful nature and are unable to understand or see the things of God

So, Jesus is not willing that any would perish yet not all men will come. Are these men overriding the will of jesus? Does not bode well for omnipotence.

 

[Samson Reaper]

Lazarus was dead, He must have been brought to life, in order to hear Jesus say "Lazarus come out"'

.

Must he! This is why I am not a Calvinist. There is no 'must'. This is human logic putting itself on a par with God. Not clever.

 

[Thursday]

Spurgeon disagrees with this. Sermon 1516.

 

[Samson Reaper]

Trawling this thread a mention was made of the seed throne on rocky ground amongst the tares. Also, by another contributor, those who wilfully reject!

It is this that caused me a lot of problems in the past and as I have witnessed it cause others to be lead astray, I cannot be a Calvinist.

If God predestines all thing as the Calvinists say ( all meaning all in this instance) how did the seed get to the rocky ground ? Well, God predestined it to be there.

The bottom line - anyone might think they are saved as God predestined this thinking. They might believe and flourish in the things of God as God predestined this as well. They might then fall back, wither and die unsaved, because God apparently predestined this as well.

So, assurance! No one can be sure one is saved as no one knows the mind of God and what he has predestined our future fate to be.

Sad.

 

[Winken]

Winken: << Judas approaches Jesus, greets Him with a kiss. Jesus asks, "hetairos, (Greek), do what you have come for." >>

That is what Judas did. This tells us nothing about predestination.

<< hetaíros defined: – properly, a companion (normally an imposter), posing to be a comrade but in reality only has his own interests in mind. A "supposed friend," viewed as associated, but actually acting for self-gain. >>

If it is that simple, why did Jesus make Judas an Apostle? It doesn't add up.

Is John the Baptist saved? Or was he lost because he died before the cross? Was he lost because he died before Jesus fulfilled the prophecies of the Messiah?

Those Jews who confessed Jesus as Messiah before the Cross were redeemed. Therefore, John the Baptist was redeemed prior to the Cross. Look up "redeemed" or "redemption."

 

[Winken]

So, assurance! No one can be sure one is saved as no one knows the mind of God and what he has predestined our future fate to be.

Sad.

Salvation is by Grace through Faith, the Gift of God. The call to salvation originates with Him; it is accepted by the Faith He provides. One is not chosen to be saved; one is saved (accepted, sealed) following the confession of Faith, Romans 10:8-13. The "seal" thereof is found in Romans 8:1 and other relevant scriptures.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

Spurgeon disagrees with this. Sermon 1516.

Well I believe all to mean Jew and Gentile alike.

I have been meaning to look into 1516 # sermon

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

A person's beliefs alone don't get them to heaven. If you accept Jesus but then refuse to obey his commandments, you won't go to heaven.

A sealed letter can be opened. The bible is very clear about those things which will separate us from God.

A person who has the indwelling of the spirit cannot refuse to obey him

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

We go to heaven if we die in God's good grace.

Some conditions:

Matt 6:15
But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Matt 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

1 Cor 6
9Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Of course the wicked unregenerate go to hell, but the regenerate believer will persevere till the end because the Spirit inside him/her allows the believer to obey and follow the Lord.

My Sheep hear my voice and follow me.

 

[Yahu_]

There is not difference between a human soul and a human spirit.

Yes there is, the spirit is the lifeforce while the soul is the mind/will/emotions what scripture often calls the 'heart'. It is in our mind that we have to tear down demonic strongholds and where we grow in knowledge/wisdom and spiritual maturity. The spirit and the soul are linked. It is via the spirit that we sense/communicate with the Holy Spirit. A ghost is the spirit and soul without a body.

 

[Thursday]

A person who has the indwelling of the spirit cannot refuse to obey him

Absolutely false. Are you saying that you never sin?

 

[Thursday]

Of course the wicked unregenerate go to hell, but the regenerate believer will persevere till the end because the Spirit inside him/her allows the believer to obey and follow the Lord.

My Sheep hear my voice and follow me.

Grace enables us to follow Jesus, it doesn't force us to.

Sheep hear and follow. Many hear but don't follow.

Jesus describes them here. Note that they call Jesus Lord:

Matt 25
40“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”



NOTE: They heard but did not follow.

 

[Dale]

Those Jews who confessed Jesus as Messiah before the Cross were redeemed. Therefore, John the Baptist was redeemed prior to the Cross. Look up "redeemed" or "redemption."

You are piling assumptions on top of assumptions. You say that Judas did not profess Jesus Christ. It is far more likely that he did so, though possibly with the wrong intent.

As far as looking up this or that, I am not your student. All of the Calvinists on this thread ignored the thoughtful post I made in post #150 about the Book of Life, so that gives me little incentive.

I would have quoted that post but multi-quote is refusing to do that for some reason.

 

[Thursday]

Yes there is, the spirit is the lifeforce while the soul is the mind/will/emotions what scripture often calls the 'heart'. It is in our mind that we have to tear down demonic strongholds and where we grow in knowledge/wisdom and spiritual maturity. The spirit and the soul are linked. It is via the spirit that we sense/communicate with the Holy Spirit. A ghost is the spirit and soul without a body.

That's semantics, not dogma. You can define them that way if you like but it is not biblical.

 

[Thursday]

Well I believe all to mean Jew and Gentile alike.

I have been meaning to look into 1516 # sermon

Why do you keep repeating this. Jews and Gentiles means ALL people.

Gentile just means non Jews.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

Absolutely false. Are you saying that you never sin?

I am a new creation, the old has gone the new has come, pursuant to scripture.

You know very well that I do still sin.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

Why do you keep repeating this. Jews and Gentiles means ALL people.

Gentile just means non Jews.

Then we are in agreement, when Jesus said I will draw all man to myself, he means Jews and Gentiles alike

 

[Thursday]

I am a new creation, the old has gone the new has come, pursuant to scripture.

You know very well that I do still sin.

Sin is disobedience to God.

Do you want to rephrase this?

A person who has the indwelling of the spirit cannot refuse to obey him

 

[Winken]

You are piling assumptions on top of assumptions. You say that Judas did not profess Jesus Christ. It is far more likely that he did so, though possibly with the wrong intent.

As far as looking up this or that, I am not your student. All of the Calvinists on this thread ignored the thoughtful post I made in post #150 about the Book of Life, so that gives me little incentive.

I would have quoted that post but multi-quote is refusing to do that for some reason.

The Jewish folk (Hebrew Nation) strayed again and again from the Abrahamic Covenant (the Grace of God), resulting in the Law of Moses. The Jews could not possibly comply with it, indicating to them how difficult it would be to be saved by endless rules, regulations, laws, works. They needed to be redeemed. God promised a Messiah (Redeemer) for National Israel (including Judea). That Messiah was Jesus. John the Baptist, a chosen Jew, came proclaiming that Jesus was, in fact, the Holy One promised.

He came to redeem the Jewish people as a people group --- all at once! Jesus chose the 12 to spread the Good News of redemption.

What happened? The leadership of the Jews watched as John the Baptist was slain. They rejected the promised Messiah, and in so doing rejected their restoration as a Nation. There were those among the Jews who accepted Him as the promised Messiah, but not the whole of the nation. Those who accepted Him were redeemed, in accordance with God' promise to send the Messiah, their Redeemer.

Now, as God ordained, Jesus went to the Cross. For 40 days thereafter He spoke to and taught the 12 (minus Judas, plus Matthias). Then He was caught up to Heaven.

Thereafter, He reached out to Saul, who became the Apostle Paul, on the Road to Damascus. Jesus made it clear that based upon HIS sacrifice at the Cross, salvation was now available for EVERYONE who confessed Him, as in Romans 10:8-13.

Thanks for the discussion --- Be abundantly blessed in Him.

 

[Thursday]

Then we are in agreement, when Jesus said I will draw all man to myself, he means Jews and Gentiles alike

Which means every person in the world. Yes, that's what he meant. ALL People.

I don't know why you insist on playing these games. Jesus said all men. You want to say all Jews and Gentiles? No difference.