Reformed versus Calvinist

[KJVisTruth]

I have always thought they are basically the same thing. But according to one thread I just saw, a confirmed Calvinist took offense at being called a Reformed. So, I want to know exactly what the differences between these terms are. I understand that Calvinists follow the 5 solas (is this where the term "a 5 point calvinist" came from?) and I have heard of "4 point calvinist"... I am not sure about that even, if it has to do with solas, which sola wasnt included? I have been reading alot of their literature, but they werent really clear about the differences, if any. I suppose thats because I have been on the sites that are pretty much dedicated to the literature alone.

I am looking to be enlightened on this subject, please dont turn this into a debate. Thanks!

 

[JimfromOhio]

I can say that a Reformed believer may NOT always "100 % Calvinism" however they do follow many of John Calvin's teachings. People are confused and don't really know Reformed theology. I didn't know until I studied more deeply. After 20 plus years of "ignorance", I finally realized that Reformed theology and my beliefs are so similar.

 

[Iosias]

The issue is (generally) this...to be a Calvinist one must adhere to TULIP i.e. the so-called "five-points of Calvinism". However this does not mean he is Reformed. Because to be Reformed includes more than just soteriology. It is a view of ecclesiology and all the heads of dogmatic/systematic theology and really emphasises the Covenant.

So you can be a Calvinist without being Reformed however you cannot be Reformed without being a Calvinist.

 

[BereanTodd]

Reformed theologians (and they will be here soon I'm sure) use the terms interchangably. And to be sure, Calvin was a reformed theology. However to anyone who is not reformed, Calvinism generally refers to the soteriology commonly represented by the acronym TULIP.

A great many people hold to calvinist soteriology while rejecting Reformed theology as a whole. I happen to be one of them. I am an avowed dispensationalist, but in soteriology I am all and always Calvinist.

"4 point" Calvinists and similar terms refer not to the Solas (which all protestants should adhere to and hold up) but rather to the points of TULIP - that is Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited or Purposeful Atonement, Irresistable Grace and Preservation/Perseverance of the Saints. Generally (though not always) if one describes themselves as "4 point Calvinists" they are denying the Limited or Purposeful Atonement of Christ.

 

[Iosias]

Reformed theologians (and they will be here soon I'm sure) use the terms interchangably. And to be sure, Calvin was a reformed theology. However to anyone who is not reformed, Calvinism generally refers to the soteriology commonly represented by the acronym TULIP.

A great many people hold to calvinist soteriology while rejecting Reformed theology as a whole. I happen to be one of them. I am an avowed dispensationalist, but in soteriology I am all and always Calvinist.

"4 point" Calvinists and similar terms refer not to the Solas (which all protestants should adhere to and hold up) but rather to the points of TULIP - that is Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited or Purposeful Atonement, Irresistable Grace and Preservation/Perseverance of the Saints. Generally (though not always) if one describes themselves as "4 point Calvinists" they are denying the Limited or Purposeful Atonement of Christ.

Therefore you are a Calvinist and not Reformed as explained in my post above

 

[KJVisTruth]

So, the views of ecclesiology and soteriology are the true differences? Being a Calvinist is really basic, sticking to TULIP alone, and being a Reformed is not basic, cuz its more than just sticking to TULIP, correct? If so, Calvinism is an offshoot of Reformism? I was under the impression they occurred at about the same time. How does the Reformed really emphasize the Covenant?

 

[KJVisTruth]

Reformed theologians (and they will be here soon I'm sure) use the terms interchangably. And to be sure, Calvin was a reformed theology. However to anyone who is not reformed, Calvinism generally refers to the soteriology commonly represented by the acronym TULIP.

A great many people hold to calvinist soteriology while rejecting Reformed theology as a whole. I happen to be one of them. I am an avowed dispensationalist, but in soteriology I am all and always Calvinist.

"4 point" Calvinists and similar terms refer not to the Solas (which all protestants should adhere to and hold up) but rather to the points of TULIP - that is Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited or Purposeful Atonement, Irresistable Grace and Preservation/Perseverance of the Saints. Generally (though not always) if one describes themselves as "4 point Calvinists" they are denying the Limited or Purposeful Atonement of Christ.

Ahh, I see. Thanks for clearing that up, about the 4/5-points of Calvinism.

Another question, are the 5 solas followed by BOTH parties? It seems that if a Calvinist claim to be a 4 point, they are flexible with the 5 solas as well? I understand that the 5 solas are different from TULIP.

 

[BereanTodd]

The Reformed movement began in Switzerland under Zwingli. Jean Calvi (John Calvin) was basically his successor. So in that sense John Calvin is yes, one of the fathers of the reformed movement, and he is 100% reformed.

However reformed theology includes an ecclesiology, and an overall theological framework. It has no particular eschatology, though it is far more common for them to be amillenial or postmillenial than anything else. It is a replacement theology with respect to Israel. And if one accepted all of Calvin's doctrine then one would be a reformed theologian.

But the key to the discussion is common useage. In common useage outside of Reformed circles, Calvinism refers specifically to the "TULIP" soteriology.

 

[BereanTodd]

Ahh, I see. Thanks for clearing that up, about the 4/5-points of Calvinism.

Another question, are the 5 solas followed by BOTH parties? It seems that if a Calvinist claim to be a 4 point, they are flexible with the 5 solas as well? I understand that the 5 solas are different from TULIP.

The Solas and the TULIP are completely different. Every protestant should uphold the 5 solas.

Sola Gratia - Grace alone. We are saved only through grace.

Sola Fide - Faith alone. We are saved by faith alone.

Sola Scriptura - The Bible is our only rule and guide for faith. This does not mean that history and tradition are not very important (they are), but that they are subject to the Scriptures.

Solus Christos - Salvation is in and through Christ alone.

Soli deo Gloria - all the glory belongs to God alone, and His glory is generally the intention of His actions.

 

[Iosias]

So, the views of ecclesiology and soteriology are the true differences? Being a Calvinist is really basic, sticking to TULIP alone, and being a Reformed is not basic, cuz its more than just sticking to TULIP, correct? If so, Calvinism is an offshoot of Reformism? I was under the impression they occurred at about the same time. How does the Reformed really emphasize the Covenant?

A Reformed theologian will hold to:
1. The Spiritual presence of Christ in the Lord's supper
2. The baptism of infants
3. TULIP as found in the Canons of Dordt
4. The regulative principle of worship
5. The unity of the OT and NT through the Covenant of Grace

A Calvinist will hold to TULIP as found in the Canons of Dordt. So when people talk of Calvinism the really mean the soteriology of Calvin alone.

So you will see Reformed is broader than just soteriology. To illustrate this just look at the following links and the topics they look at.
Reformed link:http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/topic/reformed.html
Calvinism link: http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/topic/calvinism.html

 

[KJVisTruth]

A Reformed theologian will hold to:
1. The Spiritual presence of Christ in the Lord's supper
2. The baptism of infants
3. TULIP as found in the Canons of Dordt
4. The regulative principle of worship
5. The unity of the OT and NT through the Covenant of Grace

A Calvinist will hold to TULIP as found in the Canons of Dordt. So when people talk of Calvinism the really mean the soteriology of Calvin alone.

So you will see Reformed is broader than just soteriology. To illustrate this just look at the following links and the topics they look at.
Reformed link:http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/topic/reformed.html
Calvinism link: http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/topic/calvinism.html

Awesome info. I am surprised that the Reformed believes in infant baptism.. I thought that was a ritual that only Catholics do. Very interesting.

Thanks for those links, I will definitely check them out. =)

 

[BereanTodd]

Awesome info. I am surprised that the Reformed believes in infant baptism.. I thought that was a ritual that only Catholics do. Very interesting.

Nope, actually paedobaptism (infant baptism) is the vast majority of Christians. Now I firmly believe that believer's baptism is what is taught in Scripture, however:

-Roman Catholics
-Eastern Orthodox
-Lutherans
-Anglicans/Episcopals
-Presbyterians and other Reformed groups

... all practice infant baptism. I'm not sure what the Methodists practice in regards to baptism. But your believer's baptism is basically baptist, anabaptist, non-denom and Bible churches, and charismatic churches.

 

[KJVisTruth]

Nope, actually paedobaptism (infant baptism) is the vast majority of Christians. Now I firmly believe that believer's baptism is what is taught in Scripture, however:

-Roman Catholics
-Eastern Orthodox
-Lutherans
-Anglicans/Episcopals
-Presbyterians and other Reformed groups

... all practice infant baptism. I'm not sure what the Methodists practice in regards to baptism. But your believer's baptism is basically baptist, anabaptist, non-denom and Bible churches, and charismatic churches.

Thats true. Now I wanna ask if infant baptism is scriptural. But lets not get away from the OP. lol

Cuz of the ecclesiology difference, do Calvinists still believe in going to church, or is it more about going for leisure and fellowship, not taking ecclesiology seriously?

 

[JimfromOhio]

Thats true. Now I wanna ask if infant baptism is scriptural. But lets not get away from the OP. lol

Cuz of the ecclesiology difference, do Calvinists still believe in going to church, or is it more about going for leisure and fellowship, not taking ecclesiology seriously?

We have to be careful how we view "infant baptism". Reformed "infant baptism" is NOT the same with Catholic's "infant baptism".

In Reformed Theology, "Infant Baptism" does not SAVE anyone but rather parents understanding God's Covenant regarding the child's future.

I was a Baptist and Anabaptist for almost 40 years until I finally "understood" what Reformed's view of "infant baptism".

 

[BereanTodd]

Thats true. Now I wanna ask if infant baptism is scriptural. But lets not get away from the OP. lol

Without getting too deep the basic idea is this. The symbol of the Old Covenant was circumcision and it was given to all male children of Israel. The church is spiritual or true Israel, and our sign is baptism, thus our children are all given the sign of our covenant.

Now that is a very short and brief description of why. If we examine baptism in the NT it was always a believer's baptism, there is no evidence for paedobaptism. I believe that believer's baptism is the Biblical example which we are called to follow.

Cuz of the ecclesiology difference, do Calvinists still believe in going to church, or is it more about going for leisure and fellowship, not taking ecclesiology seriously?

No orthodox Christian that I know of teaches that you should not go to church. Church is extremely important, it is stressed in Scripture, and it should remain important today.

 

[BereanTodd]

We have to be careful how we view "infant baptism". Reformed "infant baptism" is NOT the same with Catholic's "infant baptism".

In Reformed Theology, "Infant Baptism" does not SAVE anyone but rather parents understanding God's Covenant regarding the child's future.

I was a Baptist and Anabaptist for almost 40 years until I finally "understood" what Reformed's view of "infant baptism".

Very good point - the infant baptism I described above is the Reformed view of it. The Catholics believe that it is actually washing away original sin, which is completely different, so reformed and catholic paedobaptisms are different and distinct.

 

[JimfromOhio]

do Calvinists still believe in going to church, or is it more about going for leisure and fellowship, not taking ecclesiology seriously?

Calvinism believe in the Great Commission. We don't know who are elected to be saved. We just preach the Gospel to ALL and allow God handle the election part. Even though God is in control and He KNOWS who will accept and reject before the earth was even created. Jesus did die for ALL but the atonement is only for the elected (in other words, those who are convicted by the Holy Spirit to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior, repented and etc).

I want to bring out some of the great names who identified closely to Reformed/Calvinism: John Calvin, Jonathan Edwards, George Whitefield, Charles Spurgeon, James Montgomery Boice, R. C. Sproul, and John MacArthur (somewhat) and many more.

 

[KJVisTruth]

Now I get the differences of infant baptism, thanks. Why dont Calvinists hold to it though? One of the links that one just provided on this thread, I read somewhere that Calvinism is a religion of faith, whereas Reformism is a religion of faith AND works. Id like to know why that is.

 

[BereanTodd]

Why dont Calvinists hold to it though?

Reformed Calvinists do hold to it. Those who are not reformed do not because we come from other traditions (who hold the proper view) which teach believer's baptism as the proper Biblical course.

One of the links that one just provided on this thread, I read somewhere that Calvinism is a religion of faith, whereas Reformism is a religion of faith AND works. Id like to know why that is.

I disagree with that assesment. Again Calvinism can not be entirely separated from Reformed doctrine, but as a term in modern useage it applies to the view of salvation (soteriology) that many outside of the reformed faith hold to.

But the Reformed faith holds to the 5 Solas, and what did we allready cover that they meant? Soal Gratia, Sola fide. Salvation is by grace alone through Christ alone.

 

[Robert_Barnes]

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