BereanTodd
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Lutherans do not -- and HAVE NEVER -- believed in consubstantiation.
Lutherans believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Lord's Supper. Christ's body and blood are "in, with, and under" the bread and the wine.
Lutherans adamantly REJECT 'consubstantiation" because it implies and adherence to a scientific explanation for Christ's Presence in the Supper. Lutherans see no need for such an explanation: it is a mystery.
Sorry, but you are wrong.
wikipedia said:Consubstantiation is a theological doctrine that, like the competing theory of transubstantiation, attempts to describe the nature of the Christian Eucharist in concrete metaphysical terms. It holds that during the sacrament the fundamental "substance" of the body and blood of Christ are present alongside the substance of the bread and wine, which remain present. Transubstantiation differs from consubstantiation in that it postulates that through consecration, according to some, that one set of substances (bread and wine) is exchanged for another (the Body and Blood of Christ) or, according to others, that the reality of the bread and wine become the reality of the body and blood of Christ. The substance of the bread and wine do not remain, but their accidents (superficial properties like appearance and taste) remain.
Consubstantiation is commonly associated with the teachings of Martin Luther and Philipp Melanchthon, the latter actually employing the term with the approval of the former. Luther did teach that the body and blood of Christ are present "in, with, and under the forms" of bread and wine, and present-day Lutherans hold to this statement while disagreeing about its exact meaning. Some Lutherans use the term "consubstantiation" [citation needed] to refer to this belief, but the theology intended is not always the same as the philosophical theory described above. Luther illustrated his belief about the Eucharist "by the analogy of the iron put into the fire whereby both fire and iron are united in the red-hot iron and yet each continues unchanged," a concept which he called "sacramental union" , which is analogous to the Hypostatic Union of Christ's Divine and Human natures . Otherwise , the term Real Presence is also used to describe the Lutheran position in this regard . (Against the Heavenly Prophets (1525) and Confession Concerning Christ's Supper (1528) as quoted in The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, F.L. Cross, Ed., London: Oxford, 1958, p. 337). Consubstantiation is affirmed by a minority of Christians, including some Lutherans and some Eastern Orthodox churches
Lutherans do NOT hold to transubstantiation as does the RCC. Consubstantiation is that Jesus is in the bread and wine, that is what consubstantiation is. It is the Lutheran belief.
Jesus said, "This is my body," therefore it is his body. The heretic Zwingli changed Christ's words to mean "This represents my body." Like Bill Clinton..."is" doesn't mean "is". Calvin, to his credit, saw Zwingli's interpretation for the lie that it is.
Jesus also said "IAM the vine" but I don't think he is literally a plant. He also said "IAM the door" but I don't think that he is either made out of wood nor does he have a handle on him. He said "IAM the bread of life" but I do not expect him to be made of flower or contain leaven.
The fact is that there is symbollic speach that is used at times. The question is whether Jesus' words at the Last Supper were symbollic or not. And that is where our disagreement lies ...
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