Red Foxes Talking Circle

[GigageiTsula]

Breathe.

I love the names of your family.

Congratulations on your upcoming anniversary. 15 years is quite a milestone.

Thank you.

 

[GigageiTsula]

.......someday you will see Little Buffalo again; that'll be a happy day.

I find comfort in knowing that. This time of year is difficult for me. I miscarried Little Buffalo on the 2nd of January of 2004. I have had people tell me to just get over my miscarriage but I simply cannot. I have been shamed for naming this child after he died. I do not know how to just forget my son just because he was not born into this world.

 

[GigageiTsula]

Good night my friends. It is late and I am very tired.

Red Fox

 

[virtualgirl]

Goodnight, Red Fox.

 

[Ivy]

I find comfort in knowing that. This time of year is difficult for me. I miscarried Little Buffalo on the 2nd of January of 2004. I have had people tell me to just get over my miscarriage but I simply cannot. I have been shamed for naming this child after he died. I do not know how to just forget my son just because he was not born into this world.

I think you did the right thing; he's a person, and a very precious little person at that, and persons have names. God wouldn't want you to forget him, because God never forgets his own children....you're feeling the way God the Father does. He knows exactly how you feel

Well, good night and sleep tight.

 

[Ivy]

BTW, hi AmyLisa "goil-fwend"!!!!! Nice people on this thread, aren't there?

 

[IXOYE5]

Nice to see you here again IXOYE5.

Thank you Red Fox...

 

[Verv]

I just recently joined in here. I don't feel comfortable coming here right now. I don't know what has happened and don't know if I want to know.However, where I go I am myself and I think that's a good thing. I thought this was a place to discuss problems then I am told to leave them behind. I don't know that I'll be back. Peace.

Yeah, I have also recently joined and frankly I agree 100% with this sentiment: ignorance is probably better when dealing with this.

I came because Stranger sent out that PM and said he would like to get some help here explaining his position. He never went into his position but merely noted that his apologies were not being accepted or something like this... I will cover this more later in the post.

My dearest friends of my Circles,

I offer my heart felt apologies to each one of you for the turmoil and chaos that has been brought into my Circles. I want to assure all of you that I am desperately praying for peace to be restored here. I have put my heart and soul into these Circles. Each one of them were entrusted into my care by Father Wakan Takan. I have done what I can to care for and protect those within each one of them . I am truly grateful to each one of you for your patience and understanding during this difficult time. And I am truly grateful for all the prayers offered on my behalf, for all the words of encouragement, and for all the loving support I have received from each of you.

And to my newest friends in my Circles,

I am truly sorry that you have had to witness such chaotic activity here. I pray for each of you as you decide whether or not to stay. If you choose not to, I will understand, but I pray you will stay with us and help us weather this storm. Once again, my friends, I am deeply sorry. I am grieved, not simply over what has happened here, but moreso over how it has affected my friends who find refuge within my Circles.

Red Fox
​

Oh I respect entirely what you are doing here -- it is very great and very awesome, and I definitely hope that there is resolution to these problems.

Stranger seems like he reallyw ants to be forgiven and to be here and I am not sure if he is positive that he has done wrong, but at the same time, we really cannot write him off, I do not think, because that would be disrespectful to him in a large sense.

Perhaps the problem cannot be resolved simply. But at the same time, perhaps it should be treated simply: forgive him.

Christ asked us to forgive others. Forgiving is also what we have to do as our Father forgives us all for our wrong doings. To be forgiven one must forgive.

It is in the Lord's Prayer:

[bible]Luke 11:14[/bible]

We forgive those who sin against us and thus our sins are forgiven.

I ask that we all forgive each other on all accounts of wrong doing, for there is a certain sincerity happening.

I think perhaps you should have a private conversation with him. He seems shaken up about this.

 

[Criada]

My dearest friends of my Circles,

I offer my heart felt apologies to each one of you for the turmoil and chaos that has been brought into my Circles. I want to assure all of you that I am desperately praying for peace to be restored here. I have put my heart and soul into these Circles. Each one of them were entrusted into my care by Father Wakan Takan. I have done what I can to care for and protect those within each one of them . I am truly grateful to each one of you for your patience and understanding during this difficult time. And I am truly grateful for all the prayers offered on my behalf, for all the words of encouragement, and for all the loving support I have received from each of you.

And to my newest friends in my Circles,

I am truly sorry that you have had to witness such chaotic activity here. I pray for each of you as you decide whether or not to stay. If you choose not to, I will understand, but I pray you will stay with us and help us weather this storm. Once again, my friends, I am deeply sorry. I am grieved, not simply over what has happened here, but moreso over how it has affected my friends who find refuge within my Circles.

Red Fox
​

You have no need to apologise, sister, you have not caused this.

Praying very much for all concerned.
God bless you.

 

[FaithfulWife]

Stranger seems like he really w ants to be forgiven and to be here and I am not sure if he is positive that he has done wrong, but at the same time, we really cannot write him off, I do not think, because that would be disrespectful to him in a large sense.

Perhaps the problem cannot be resolved simply. But at the same time, perhaps it should be treated simply: forgive him.

Christ asked us to forgive others. Forgiving is also what we have to do as our Father forgives us all for our wrong doings. To be forgiven one must forgive.

I ask that we all forgive each other on all accounts of wrong doing, for there is a certain sincerity happening.

I think perhaps you should have a private conversation with him. He seems shaken up about this.

jmverville~

You'll notice that up to this point I have been silent on the matter, and I believe most who know me know that this is just my way often...to be still and be silent. I don't always speak a LOT, and I would not even dream of speaking for Moriah or Red Fox. But I can speak for myself.

The issues FOR ME are that first there is the continuous riddles and page-long posts about what...we're not sure! The page-long posts are about brothers and sisters and always involve a kiss and brotherly love and kissing are mentioned too many times to feel comfortable. I understand the difference between true brotherly love and something that is uncomfortable and uncouth--and I understand when something is dishonoring to my husband and the relationship I have with him. Yes, my husband and I are "one body" and I don't think stranger was talking about sex, but what he was doing is dancing on a line that I will not mess with and then covering it with riddles and claiming *I* was misreading it.

In fact, this has been the pattern MANY, MANY times (three serious times that I can think of in the last month). Always a FEMALE--he becomes fixated--speaks in riddles involving kissing and sitting together--sends an inappropriate amount of private PMs to the FEMALE--and when we (one of us ladies) says, "Dude back off a bit" he cries victim and claims that WE are the ones misreading it. If it were an isolated instance with one person I would consider the possibility of misunderstanding, but like I said, three times (or more) in one month that I know of personally is a PATTERN.

Furthermore, when a married lady tells you to back off and it's inappropriate, if you've been hassling her in public, on HER thread, then she has the right to ask you to step off in public and even ask you to leave in public. The fact that stranger thinks there should be some protocol is in HIS head--there are not defined and agreed to "rules" about how to approach someone who has stepped over a boundary. Moriah chose to close her thread partially because of his threatening behavior, and rather than be a gentleman and back off for a bit, he went to the other threads that she posts on and tried to FORCE others to MAKE Moriah talk to him via PM. She's a lady and felt uncomfortable and had no obligation to do so--but the attempts to FORCE it just reinforced that talking via PM was probably a bad idea. With me, I chose to address the issues via Matt 18--I spoke to him via PM and told him I had received 20 PMs in one day--all in those riddle poems--and prior to that had only received 7 PMs ever!! Thereafter I got 27 more PMs one day and 36 another!! That is outrageous! But I told him I had saved them all, that if he didn't want to back off that I would take the route open to me by following the model in Matt. 18--and with me he more or less chose to back off. Then he moved on to Red Fox--and maybe two other ladies in this circle: namely 4EverLoved and cherokeehippie. I am not privie to their every detail, but I do know that they did not feel comfortable, they asked him to back off, and he cried victim and went to OTHERS to force communication.

In my opinion, the proper "protocol" is that a gentleman should not be fixating on married or single ladies, should not go on for a whole page about kissing (holy kiss or not), and if the lady says she's uncomfortable and his intentions really were honorable, he'd back off and ask for forgiveness. Here's what's NOT proper "protocol"--refusing to examine himself; blaming others for his bad behavior; crying victim when it is his bad behavior that created this; being inappropriate with ANY lady; being inappropriate with a married lady; refusing to take a time-out at a respectful request; forcing himself on several women in a way that is scary and obsessive; calling us witches, satanists, enemies ETC. merely because we don't have the same vision of "something" that he does in his babblings; trying to persuade others that somehow WE are the ones bringing evil to a place that was once a refuge of peace and loving acceptance.

These are the Facts, and I hate to come across as angry but in this instance I believe I am angered with a righteous anger for the mistreatment that I've seen at least three ladies suffer at the hand of a man who is now crying crocodile tears.

Circle, once again I will return to my careful silence, but know this--I am here every day. I love the peace we once had here and if it is God's will may that return SOON! I personally believe that one step in seeking forgiveness would be for the party to admit the wrong and ask for it. Also I personally believe that a party can be forgiven but that does not negate the consequences of the issue--and in this instance, for me and I think for many of the ladies who have been so attacked, the consequence is that I can not be associated with him. Would I forgive him if he were to examine himself and admit his part in this? You betcha!

~Faithful

 

[Amylisa]

These are NDN (iNDiaN) names that I have given them, and we use them only in the haven of our own home. When we are not at home we use our non-native names. We receive too many raised eyebrows otherwise, especially when I say their names in Cherokee to gain their attention.

Their names must sound especially cool when you say them in Cherokee!
Very nice picture of your family. I love when we can see each other. I have to try and put up a picture here. I do have some on my myspace
http://www.myspace.com/amylisa3 if you want to check it out sometime!

Don't worry about us newbies to your circle. This is a public forum and things happen.

Yes Ivy there are some very nice people here!

I am very happy to report that my little Mario is doing better today. Still coughing but much better. Thank God! No hospital trip!
I must go food shopping in a few minutes. There's not much in the house to eat and we have a big snowstorm coming today.

The peace of Yeshua to you all!

 

[TheTexasHillbilly]

Hey people. Just checking in with everyone.

 

[GigageiTsula]

Faithful, you are such a blessing and I am so thankful for your friendship. And I am thankful for all of my friendships here within my circles.

jmverville, Stranger is no longer welcome here. I can no longer associate with him either. I am sorry if you cannot accept that fact. My heart's desire is to restore peace here and that cannot be accomplished if he is here.

Red Fox

 

[GigageiTsula]

Hey people. Just checking in with everyone.

Hello my friend.

 

[GigageiTsula]

Their names must sound especially cool when you say them in Cherokee!
Very nice picture of your family. I love when we can see each other. I have to try and put up a picture here. I do have some on my myspace
http://www.myspace.com/amylisa3 if you want to check it out sometime!

Don't worry about us newbies to your circle. This is a public forum and things happen.

Yes Ivy there are some very nice people here!

I am very happy to report that my little Mario is doing better today. Still coughing but much better. Thank God! No hospital trip!
I must go food shopping in a few minutes. There's not much in the house to eat and we have a big snowstorm coming today.

The peace of Yeshua to you all!

Thank you Amylisa, and your myspace profile is beautiful.

 

[GigageiTsula]

December 12 - Daily Feast

Misery seems to justify making someone pay - but there is sweet revenge in finding our own inner spirit can expand quickly to push out unfairness and bitterness. Who doesn't have the right to be bitter? A hard thing to forget, a mountain to overcome - but such peace follows. Peace spreads like warm honey across a hot biscuit and permeates all the little places that capture and hold it. The heart lifts its hands in praise for relief from the darkness of bitter memories. All of us can do it - all of us must if we are to be well and have something to share. Just let it go. Life will balance the books, it always does.

~ While living I want to live well. ~

GERONIMO - CHIRACAHUA APACHE

'A Cherokee Feast of Days, Volume II' by Joyce Sequichie Hifler

*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*

Elder's Meditation of the Day - December 12

"In order for our children to survive in the world, they need a firm understanding and belief in the basic principles of sharing freedom and respect of individuality."

--Haida Gwaii, Traditional Circle of Elders

There is a saying: Tell me, I'll forget; Show me, I'll remember; Engage me; I'll understand. The adults need to determine what the younger generation is the learn. The principle of sharing keeps the youth from being greedy and selfish. The principle of freedom teaches the youth about choices, decisions and consequences. The principle of respect keeps us from playing God and becoming a controller of all things. We need to learn theses lessons so we may demonstrate them for our children.

Great Teacher, help me to understand Your principles.

*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*

'THINK on THESE THINGS'
by Joyce Sequichie Hifler

At night sometimes the world seems so topsy-turvy and you're so weary of doing things the same old way. Then nothing seems to please....You try desperately for something new and different, something that doesn't seem so much like you. Why? Tonight you are different.

One cannot expect the world to be top side up all the time. Such perfection does not come so easily to human nature. And always there is a search for something new and different. A change of pace....that thought that I don't want to be me today, to think my thoughts and do my daily chores. I want to make a complete change now, to know a whole new way of life. And it is good to leave behind the many daily situations that sometimes stand too closely to be seen clearly, but to be wise enough to know which things should be left behind.

There have been clean sweeps that have left behind the dearest things....and have taken along the same dreary, dark unhappy things of the mind that should have been left behind.

A line from the prayer of serenity is "The wisdom to know the difference....." And wisdom, says Samuel Taylor Coleridge, is common sense in an uncommon degree. If one has the wisdom to wait a bit, wait until morning - or several mornings - that uncommon degree of common sense will give us the wisdom to know the difference.

 

[virtualgirl]

Good morning my friends.

His mercies are new every morning. Great is His faithfulness!

 

[FaithfulWife]

My gift to the circle today:

"The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, The leopard shall lie down with the young goat,
The calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little child shall lead them."
Isaiah 11:6

May peace be with us today.

 

[wolfman544]

All I can share is that staff is actively working on reports and addressing any and all issues. It is in no way the fault of this circle.

Thank you to all in the circle for your patience as we all work to help you clean things up...

God Bless you all my friends - and thank you for allowing me to post here once again.. I always feel cared about and welcome when I come here...

Hello my friend.
Thank you for the heads up.
You are indeed welcome here.

My dearest friends of my Circles,

I offer my heart felt apologies to each one of you for the turmoil and chaos that has been brought into my Circles. I want to assure all of you that I am desperately praying for peace to be restored here. I have put my heart and soul into these Circles. Each one of them were entrusted into my care by Father Wakan Takan. I have done what I can to care for and protect those within each one of them . I am truly grateful to each one of you for your patience and understanding during this difficult time. And I am truly grateful for all the prayers offered on my behalf, for all the words of encouragement, and for all the loving support I have received from each of you.

And to my newest friends in my Circles,

I am truly sorry that you have had to witness such chaotic activity here. I pray for each of you as you decide whether or not to stay. If you choose not to, I will understand, but I pray you will stay with us and help us weather this storm. Once again, my friends, I am deeply sorry. I am grieved, not simply over what has happened here, but moreso over how it has affected my friends who find refuge within my Circles.

Red Fox
​

No apologies necessary, stuff happens

Hello my lovlies! I have not checked in on youin a while! How ya'll been?

Hello

These are NDN (iNDiaN) names that I have given them, and we use them only in the haven of our own home. When we are not at home we use our non-native names. We receive too many raised eyebrows otherwise, especially when I say their names in Cherokee to gain their attention.

I would imagine that would make people look.

I find comfort in knowing that. This time of year is difficult for me. I miscarried Little Buffalo on the 2nd of January of 2004. I have had people tell me to just get over my miscarriage but I simply cannot. I have been shamed for naming this child after he died. I do not know how to just forget my son just because he was not born into this world.

I do not see why there would be shame in naming him.

I think you did the right thing; he's a person, and a very precious little person at that, and persons have names. God wouldn't want you to forget him, because God never forgets his own children....you're feeling the way God the Father does. He knows exactly how you feel

Well, good night and sleep tight.

I agree.

Yeah, I have also recently joined and frankly I agree 100% with this sentiment: ignorance is probably better when dealing with this.

I came because Stranger sent out that PM and said he would like to get some help here explaining his position. He never went into his position but merely noted that his apologies were not being accepted or something like this... I will cover this more later in the post.



Oh I respect entirely what you are doing here -- it is very great and very awesome, and I definitely hope that there is resolution to these problems.

Stranger seems like he reallyw ants to be forgiven and to be here and I am not sure if he is positive that he has done wrong, but at the same time, we really cannot write him off, I do not think, because that would be disrespectful to him in a large sense.

Perhaps the problem cannot be resolved simply. But at the same time, perhaps it should be treated simply: forgive him.

Christ asked us to forgive others. Forgiving is also what we have to do as our Father forgives us all for our wrong doings. To be forgiven one must forgive.

It is in the Lord's Prayer:

[bible]Luke 11:14[/bible]

We forgive those who sin against us and thus our sins are forgiven.

I ask that we all forgive each other on all accounts of wrong doing, for there is a certain sincerity happening.

I think perhaps you should have a private conversation with him. He seems shaken up about this.

I don't have all the facts, so I will speak in general.
Forgiveness is indeed what we are to do. But, there is a difference between forgiveness and pardon. We are to forgive others, but not leave ourselves open for continued attack.

jmverville~

You'll notice that up to this point I have been silent on the matter, and I believe most who know me know that this is just my way often...to be still and be silent. I don't always speak a LOT, and I would not even dream of speaking for Moriah or Red Fox. But I can speak for myself.

The issues FOR ME are that first there is the continuous riddles and page-long posts about what...we're not sure! The page-long posts are about brothers and sisters and always involve a kiss and brotherly love and kissing are mentioned too many times to feel comfortable. I understand the difference between true brotherly love and something that is uncomfortable and uncouth--and I understand when something is dishonoring to my husband and the relationship I have with him. Yes, my husband and I are "one body" and I don't think stranger was talking about sex, but what he was doing is dancing on a line that I will not mess with and then covering it with riddles and claiming *I* was misreading it.

In fact, this has been the pattern MANY, MANY times (three serious times that I can think of in the last month). Always a FEMALE--he becomes fixated--speaks in riddles involving kissing and sitting together--sends an inappropriate amount of private PMs to the FEMALE--and when we (one of us ladies) says, "Dude back off a bit" he cries victim and claims that WE are the ones misreading it. If it were an isolated instance with one person I would consider the possibility of misunderstanding, but like I said, three times (or more) in one month that I know of personally is a PATTERN.

Furthermore, when a married lady tells you to back off and it's inappropriate, if you've been hassling her in public, on HER thread, then she has the right to ask you to step off in public and even ask you to leave in public. The fact that stranger thinks there should be some protocol is in HIS head--there are not defined and agreed to "rules" about how to approach someone who has stepped over a boundary. Moriah chose to close her thread partially because of his threatening behavior, and rather than be a gentleman and back off for a bit, he went to the other threads that she posts on and tried to FORCE others to MAKE Moriah talk to him via PM. She's a lady and felt uncomfortable and had no obligation to do so--but the attempts to FORCE it just reinforced that talking via PM was probably a bad idea. With me, I chose to address the issues via Matt 18--I spoke to him via PM and told him I had received 20 PMs in one day--all in those riddle poems--and prior to that had only received 7 PMs ever!! Thereafter I got 27 more PMs one day and 36 another!! That is outrageous! But I told him I had saved them all, that if he didn't want to back off that I would take the route open to me by following the model in Matt. 18--and with me he more or less chose to back off. Then he moved on to Red Fox--and maybe two other ladies in this circle: namely 4EverLoved and cherokeehippie. I am not privie to their every detail, but I do know that they did not feel comfortable, they asked him to back off, and he cried victim and went to OTHERS to force communication.

In my opinion, the proper "protocol" is that a gentleman should not be fixating on married or single ladies, should not go on for a whole page about kissing (holy kiss or not), and if the lady says she's uncomfortable and his intentions really were honorable, he'd back off and ask for forgiveness. Here's what's NOT proper "protocol"--refusing to examine himself; blaming others for his bad behavior; crying victim when it is his bad behavior that created this; being inappropriate with ANY lady; being inappropriate with a married lady; refusing to take a time-out at a respectful request; forcing himself on several women in a way that is scary and obsessive; calling us witches, satanists, enemies ETC. merely because we don't have the same vision of "something" that he does in his babblings; trying to persuade others that somehow WE are the ones bringing evil to a place that was once a refuge of peace and loving acceptance.

These are the Facts, and I hate to come across as angry but in this instance I believe I am angered with a righteous anger for the mistreatment that I've seen at least three ladies suffer at the hand of a man who is now crying crocodile tears.

Circle, once again I will return to my careful silence, but know this--I am here every day. I love the peace we once had here and if it is God's will may that return SOON! I personally believe that one step in seeking forgiveness would be for the party to admit the wrong and ask for it. Also I personally believe that a party can be forgiven but that does not negate the consequences of the issue--and in this instance, for me and I think for many of the ladies who have been so attacked, the consequence is that I can not be associated with him. Would I forgive him if he were to examine himself and admit his part in this? You betcha!

~Faithful

I now have more facts.

Their names must sound especially cool when you say them in Cherokee!
Very nice picture of your family. I love when we can see each other. I have to try and put up a picture here. I do have some on my myspace
http://www.myspace.com/amylisa3 if you want to check it out sometime!

Don't worry about us newbies to your circle. This is a public forum and things happen.

Yes Ivy there are some very nice people here!

I am very happy to report that my little Mario is doing better today. Still coughing but much better. Thank God! No hospital trip!
I must go food shopping in a few minutes. There's not much in the house to eat and we have a big snowstorm coming today.

The peace of Yeshua to you all!

That's wonderful to heere PTL.

Hey people. Just checking in with everyone.

My gift to the circle today:

"The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, The leopard shall lie down with the young goat,
The calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little child shall lead them."
Isaiah 11:6

May peace be with us today.

Thank you for the picture

 

[FaithfulWife]

wolfman! You are so efficient!

May I ask--are you a Thinker by chance? My dear hubby is all logical and in order like you, so that's why I ask.

I myself am a Feeler, so I get all rather than just going one by one.

Here's another picture for the circle: