Reconciled Unto God, NOT Predestinated

[bbbbbbb]

well since God knows everything the answer would be yes.

Thank you.

 

[RobertPate]

angels do not have the same powers that God has now do they?

They don't have the same power, but they apparently know what's going on.

 

[RobertPate]

The word predestine can simply mean to chose beforehand. God chose us before the foundation of the world according to His foreknowledge of those who would repent and abide in Christ to the end. He foresaw who would abide in Christ and wrote their names in the book of life before creation.

If God chose some to salvation and some to be damned to hell he would be unjust. Can you trust in a God that would do such a horrible thing like that?

 

[Hammster]

If God chose some to salvation and some to be damned to hell he would be unjust. Can you trust in a God that would do such a horrible thing like that?

Why is it horrible? Why do you deserve the opportunity to be saved?

 

[bbbbbbb]

If God chose some to salvation and some to be damned to hell he would be unjust. Can you trust in a God that would do such a horrible thing like that?

That raises an interesting point. Are you trusting in a perfectly just and righteous God who will condemn every single individual to an eternity in the lake of fire which burns forever and ever? After all, to be completely fair He ought to mete out his justice equitably.

 

[RobertPate]

That raises an interesting point. Are you trusting in a perfectly just and righteous God who will condemn every single individual to an eternity in the lake of fire which burns forever and ever? After all, to be completely fair He ought to mete out his justice equitably.

All that reject God's great free gift of salvation that has been provided by Jesus Christ will be condemned. Jesus suffered and died on a wooden cross so that you can be saved. If you reject that maybe you should go to hell. Whatever is decided in the judgment will be fair and just.

 

[bbbbbbb]

All that reject God's great free gift of salvation that has been provided by Jesus Christ will be condemned. Jesus suffered and died on a wooden cross so that you can be saved. If you reject that maybe you should go to hell. Whatever is decided in the judgment will be fair and just.

That is rather simplistic. There are hundreds of millions of people alive at this very moment who will never consciously reject God's gift of salvation simply because they will never hear the name of Jesus Christ, much less comprehend the gospel offer.

 

[Hammster]

All that reject God's great free gift of salvation that has been provided by Jesus Christ will be condemned.

They are already condemned. That’s the default state. They aren’t neutral.

 

[TedT]

If God chose some to salvation and some to be damned to hell he would be unjust. Can you trust in a God that would do such a horrible thing like that?

IF HIS decision was based upon their own decision to rebuke HIM as a liar and a false god, sinning the unforgivable sin then of course I trust HIM and accept HIS judgment on their evil choice to be eternally evil...

It is not that HE made the decision to damn them that blasphemes HIM but the Calvinist depiction of HIS judgement as arbitrary, as condemning some to hell for no reason found within them to pass them over for salvation!

They can't be forgiven because
- they made the decision to rebel against GOD's claims to Deity by their free will and a free will decision cannot be changed by anyone unless the person asks for it to be changed or it cannot be a free will.

- Once they rebelled they became enslaved by the addictive power of evil which destroyed their ability to seek true repentance. They were instantly and totally unable to repent of their evil and committed fully to the belief they were right to rebel against this upstart liar and false god.

Therefore as unable to repent unto faith and having denied GOD the right to interfere with their decision, they are outside of HIS mercy and loving kindness forever. To keep the heavenly marriage safe from their predations, they had to be sequestered in hell, unable leaven heaven with their sin, Galatians 5:9.

 

[TedT]

After all, to be completely fair He ought to mete out his justice equitably.

This assumes that 1. all sins must be treated the same. It also assumes that 2. the Calvinist pov that there is no difference between those elected to salvation and those passed over for salvation. Both these ideas are denied in PCE theology.

1. All sin has an equal and ultimate disvalue in GOD's sight.There is no lesser, forgivable, sin nor greater, unforgivable, sin. The difference found between those who are forgiven and those who cannot be forgiven is found in their relationship with YHWH created by their decision as to where to put their faith, their unproven hope as to what reality they wanted and their trust that their decision would achieve this reality.

Everyone created in HIS image, ie, able to be a proper Bride to HIM, was created with a free will and an equal ability and opportunity to put their faith in HIM or against HIM as a liar and a false god by their free will.

Some put their faith in HIM as their creator GOD and saviour from all sin, allowing HIM full access to change their mind if they should ever sin and become enslaved to sin and thereby they were chosen, elected, to salvation by the Son. Others rebuked HIM as a liar and a false god, putting themselves outside of HIS willingness to save them and unable to come to repentance on their own.

Thus it was by their own free will choice as to their relationship with HIM that some sinners can be redeemed and some cannot, not the estimation that all sin is equal so must be judged the same.

2. This depiction of our fall and how some came to be elect to salvation and others were passed over for salvation also denies the Calvinist blasphemy that GOD chose for no reason found in the person, to elect some to salvation and not others all of whom would be equal in sinfulness.

 

[TedT]

All that reject God's great free gift of salvation that has been provided by Jesus Christ will be condemned.

Does not saved by grace not ourselves mean that we cannot chose salvation as a free gift due to our enslavement to sin?

 

[TedT]

They are already condemned. That’s the default state. They aren’t neutral.

As men, yes they are but not by their creation but only by their free will faith or rejection of faith in HIM as saviour before their first sin before being sown as men.

 

[Hammster]

As men, yes they are but not by their creation but only by their free will faith or rejection of faith in HIM as saviour before their first sin before being sown as men.

They are condemned because they are in Adam.

 

[RobertPate]

Why is it horrible? Why do you deserve the opportunity to be saved?

So, you don't see anything wrong with God damning people to hell before they are born?
I deserve the opportunity to be saved because God gave me life.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Why is it horrible? Why do you deserve the opportunity to be saved?

I don’t think that’s the root of the problem. The root of the problem is that in order for predestination to be just we must be capable of meeting God’s expectations.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So, you don't see anything wrong with God damning people to hell before they are born?
I deserve the opportunity to be saved because God gave me life.

There’s nothing wrong with it because the elect were chosen according to His foreknowledge. God foresaw those who would repent and abide in Christ to the end and wrote their names in the book of life before creation. This is how predestination works without contradicting the scriptures and without sending people to the lake of fire with no way of being saved.

 

[BNR32FAN]

They are condemned because they are in Adam.

People are condemned because they inherited Adam’s sinful nature and as a result sinned themselves. That’s why we are in need of a Savior.

 

[BNR32FAN]

They are already condemned. That’s the default state. They aren’t neutral.

Actually we’re not condemned until we sin.

 

[BNR32FAN]

If God chose some to salvation and some to be damned to hell he would be unjust. Can you trust in a God that would do such a horrible thing like that?

There is no God that would do such a thing, there’s only One God. The rest are just demons.

 

[RobertPate]

That is rather simplistic. There are hundreds of millions of people alive at this very moment who will never consciously reject God's gift of salvation simply because they will never hear the name of Jesus Christ, much less comprehend the gospel offer.

All are without an excuse, Romans 1:18-20.