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So what is the difference Im witnessing to ?I have not said whether I see a difference or not. What I said is all are children of wrath before faith. Because it's what the Bible say.
Good day ZoidarI don't understand how you mean God choose us IN CHRIST before the foundation of the world. You mean God choose those who are in Christ now before the foundation of the world that they would come to be in Christ?
Hi Bill,Good day Zoidar
Always nice to chat with you.
You mean God put us in Christ before the foundation or decided before the foundation He would later, after we had been born on Earth put us in Christ? I probably get the answer from your videos, just wanted to ask you first.The "In Christ" is a preposition. In Christ we have all the heavenly Blessings Vs 3. This phase occurs a lot in this log sentence.
He chose to put us "in" Christ before the world's foundation was put in place (creation).
Yes, I would agree with that statement.Would you agree those who are in Christ are saved?
1 Pet 1? What verse are you thinking about?You may find these helpful:
What Does It Mean That God Chose Us before the Foundation of the World? (Ephesians 1)
God Has Chosen Us in Him Before the Foundation of the Earth
The glorious, unshakable, objective foundation of your being a Christian is that God chose you to be one.www.desiringgod.org
If you recall Christ was Slain before the foundation of the worlds as well - 1Pe 1, Rev 13.
I will listen to the videos you recommend, just not right now, but maybe later today or tomorrow.Da Carson: He breaks it down quite well.
In Him,
Bill
Good day, ZoidarHi Bill,
I'm happy you feel that way!
You mean God put us in Christ before the foundation or decided before the foundation He would later, after we had been born on Earth put us in Christ? I probably get the answer from your videos, just wanted to ask you first.
Yes, I would agree with that statement.
1 Pet 1? What verse are you thinking about?
V. 20? It doesn't say slain but ok.
For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you
— 1 Peter 1:20
I will listen to the videos you recommend, just not right now, but maybe later today or tomorrow.
You are saying the elect never were children of wrath or no elect person born after the time of the crucifixion has ever been under God's wrath, (I don't know which one you affirm), despite the, I would say, indisputable evidence of Eph 2:3. I think (and hope) even the majority of Calvinists would disagree with you as well.So what is the difference Im witnessing to ?
Nope you didnt even grasp what I posted.You are saying the elect never were children of wrath or no elect person born after the time of the crucifixion has ever been under God's wrath, (I don't know which one you affirm), despite the, I would say, indisputable evidence of Eph 2:3. I think (and hope) even the majority of Calvinists would disagree with you as well.
However, you can say the elect were chosen and predestined before the beginning of time to be children of God, that is different thing. Even I may not agree, I think it's a valid position to hold.
You have to be clearer then.Nope you didnt even grasp what I posted.
Here is part of the problem. You write the elect "are" enemies of God where the Bible says "were" enemies of God.Enemies of God by nature
All of Gods Elect, Sheep are by nature like all others enemies of God Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
...
We were enemies of God, living by our fallen nature. But to say repentance is not a part of the salvation journey is missing the point.Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
All for whom Christ died, have been reconciled to God, by His death alone, not by their obedience, not by their faith, not by their repentance, but even while they were being enemies, unbelievers, children of wrath as others BY NATURE, now if this be the case, their being reconciled, they cannot be under condemnation and wrath as others Jn 3:18,36 even while being unbelievers !
You see, they cannot be both condemned and under wrath as enemies and reconciled to God as enemies at the same time !
I have listened now. I like the way Piper explains assurance, much the same way as Lutherans. We have our assurance outside of ourself, certainly relieving for all who struggles. I don't have that much to say about his view of election, other than I think he goes too far by putting two extremes against each other where there are other options. But I guess it's part of the Calvinist - Arminian battle.Good day Zoidar
Always nice to chat with you.
The "In Christ" is a preposition. In Christ we have all the heavenly Blessings Vs 3. This phase occurs a lot in this log sentence.
He chose to put us "in" Christ before the world's foundation was put in place (creation).
Would you agree those who are in Christ are saved?
You may find these helpful:
What Does It Mean That God Chose Us before the Foundation of the World? (Ephesians 1)
God Has Chosen Us in Him Before the Foundation of the Earth
The glorious, unshakable, objective foundation of your being a Christian is that God chose you to be one.www.desiringgod.org
If you recall Christ was Slain before the foundation of the worlds as well - 1Pe 1, Rev 13.
Da Carson: He breaks it down quite well.
In Him,
Bill
You out in left fieldWe were enemies of God, living by our fallen nature. But to say repentance is not a part of the salvation journey is missing the point.
Salvation has always involved repentance.
Job 36:10-12 He also opens their ear to instruction, And commands that they turn from iniquity. If they obey and serve Him, They shall spend their days in prosperity, And their years in pleasures. But if they do not obey, They shall perish by the sword, And they shall die without knowledge.
John 14:15-24 "If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you. "A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him." Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, "Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?" Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me.
A person who says they believe in Jesus but have no change of heart, still wishes to sin, does not know God.
Tit 1:16 They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.
1Jn 3:8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
Tit 2:11-12 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,
How does one "obey" Jesus, by putting faith in Jesus, and turning from known sin.
Good day,
Notice the "time" referenced here "Before"
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
It is true the letter is written to beliers and not unbelievers The "us" would refer to believers (now).
But before the foundation of the world there were no believing ones.
In Him
Bill
These verses do not say anything about God choosing to give faith to some by regeneration from before the foundation of the world;
Many translations say "as first fruits" instead of "from the beginning". Seems to depend on which manuscript you use.@setst777
But He did, since He chose them unto salvation. 2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
@setst777
But He did, since He chose them unto salvation. 2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
It doesnt change anything, its still God showing preference above others. The word is haireō :Many translations say "as first fruits" instead of "from the beginning". Seems to depend on which manuscript you use.
New International Version
But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.
Believers is right, but they were chosen before they were believers, even from the beginning of time. They became believers following the Sanctifying work of the Spirit. Believing/Faith is a product of Sanctification of the SpiritWho did God choose for salvation according to "2 Thessalonians 2:13"?
Answer: He chose "YOU" the believers in Christ whom he is writing to. God chose the Believers in His Son for salvation. This was God's plan from the beginning.
1 Corinthians 1:21 (WEB) For seeing that in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom didn’t know God, it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save those who believe.
Romans 5:1-2 (WEB) Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; 2 through whom we also have our access by faith into this grace in which we stand. We rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
What we have to ask is when, how and for what reason God chose these men and women to be saved? Saying God chose them, doesn't say much if we don't answer the other questions.It doesnt change anything, its still God showing preference above others. The word is haireō :
- to take for oneself, to prefer, choose
- to choose by vote, elect to office
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